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OT - New Russian Stealth Fighter

centuryseries

SOH-CM-2023
Saw this yesterday on BBC news website, forgive me if someone else has already mentioned it, I have looked but did not find anything.

New Sukhoi Stealth fighter:

"Russia's response to the US stealth fighter, a new fifth-generation fighter, has made its first successful flight.
The "fifth generation" jet is designed to be invisible to radar. Russia's air force hopes to acquire it in 2015. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8487026.stm
 
Me neither, I'm quite surprised as usually I keep my nose to the ground on new developments!

Before anyone says it's a poor copy of an F-22, remember that it was a Russian physicist Pyotr Ufimtsev who in 1962 published a document titled "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction". This was then translated into English and used by the US to test the theory which led to the F-117.

I think it looks beautifully sleek. Raptor is a little chunky looking, but Sukhoi seem to make elegant designs.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/v/MQDPHAMC6WU&hl=pt_BR&fs=1&[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/v/gpQ-mToRvn8&hl=pt_BR&fs=1&[/YOUTUBE]
 
She's a gorgeous plane. yeah, some people are gonna knock her because they refuse to believe that russia has any intellegent people with an iq over fourty, but te truth is, our f-22s have been getting shot down in play battles for some time now by su-27s. Then the su-35s hit but were so expensive, russia couldnt afford them. This plane looks good. it's a more simple design, yet very sdleek and self contained. not at all clunky. I doubt she'll have the maneuverability of say the su-33 or su-35, but i've been incorrect before.. it'll be fun watching this one develop.
 
the T-50 (Sukhois in house designation) will get thrust vectoring on all axes i believe... she's beautiful and potent, the air to air missile she's envisaged to carry has greater range than anything in the current NATO arsenal, if i recall right that is...
 
She's a gorgeous plane. yeah, some people are gonna knock her because they refuse to believe that russia has any intellegent people with an iq over fourty, but te truth is, our f-22s have been getting shot down in play battles for some time now by su-27s. Then the su-35s hit but were so expensive, russia couldnt afford them. This plane looks good. it's a more simple design, yet very sdleek and self contained. not at all clunky. I doubt she'll have the maneuverability of say the su-33 or su-35, but i've been incorrect before.. it'll be fun watching this one develop.

Show me one instance where an F-22 was shot down by an Su-27? I've yet to see any evidence of this. I think you've definitely confused the F-15 for the F-22, because F-22's haven't had any dogfights with Su-27's, other than at Groom Lake at best. In fact, the only shoot downs of the F-22 I've come across are when the F-22 pilots decide to hotdog it and get into a knife fight, giving up all of their advantages, then getting shot down by the wingman they didn't see. i.e.- Bad tactics are the only time I've seen an F-22 get shot down in any war game and those have all been by Hornets or Growlers. Even the Growler pilot who made the kill said it just turned out to be a lucky shot.

As for the T-50, it will be at least as maneuverable as any of the Flanker family, as it is a truly unstable design and uses it's 3D TV to great advantage. However, it isn't as stealthy as the F-22 and it probably isn't as stealthy as the F-35, though it's probably close. That's because they, the Russians, don't want the T-50 to be a hanger queen due to the level of stealth treatment you need to attain the level of stealth the U.S. has set for it's designs.

Also, much of the design treatments, such as the 3D fixed shock inlets are like what the U.S. uses, because they make sense. Much of that technology was developed in the U.S. and yes, they referenced it. I hope people here don't think the Russians are so stupid that they would spend billions of dollars developing a knowledge base they could get from us at much less cost. It's a known fact that Russia and China already have all of the info on the F-22 and F-35 designs and their technologies. It's actually being able to manufacture them that's the difficult part.

So yeah, there are similarities between the T-50 and the F-22. But that's also because physics and technology determine what the plane will look like, to a certain extent. And yes, the Russians did reference U.S. designs and technology in developing it, because they would have been fools not to. The mission defines the design, not the other way around. In fact, the T-50 is a logical progression of the Flanker design, adapted for the new mission requirements.

Also, in a bit of a geek fit, I have to say I can't help thinking of the sensor behind the cockpit as a miniature R2D2. ;)

As of this moment, I think it's the best looking fighter flying. If you would like more info and pictures, you can reference the following links;

Secret Projects T-50 thread

Ares Blog postings and analysis of the T-50
 
She's a gorgeous plane. yeah, some people are gonna knock her because they refuse to believe that russia has any intellegent people with an iq over fourty, but te truth is, our f-22s have been getting shot down in play battles for some time now by su-27s. Then the su-35s hit but were so expensive, russia couldnt afford them. This plane looks good. it's a more simple design, yet very sdleek and self contained. not at all clunky. I doubt she'll have the maneuverability of say the su-33 or su-35, but i've been incorrect before.. it'll be fun watching this one develop.

Anyone who thinks there aren't brilliant scientists and engineers in Russia is probably a little low on IQ points themselves. You don't just have to look at history, which is full of examples of Russia's scientific prowess, just look at all the programmers and developers who are still working there. How many sims have you seen lately that haven't come from behind the former Iron Curtain? Not too many.
 
Anyone who thinks there aren't brilliant scientists and engineers in Russia is probably a little low on IQ points themselves. You don't just have to look at history, which is full of examples of Russia's scientific prowess, just look at all the programmers and developers who are still working there. How many sims have you seen lately that haven't come from behind the former Iron Curtain? Not too many.

It rarely has anything to do with brilliance and everything to do with money. Give any country enough money and they can develop this technology. Also, the main reason many sims, etc., are developed in Russia and not here is related to costs/economics. Most companies in the West aren't going to wait years to develop something that will give them little ROI.

My point being, smart people are everywhere. The only time nations come into play is in terms of national policy regarding education. If you want an area where Russians truly excel, look at math. Since they lag behind the west in computer technology, their math prowess is very strong, since they they've had to use it to solve problems explicitly and not implicitly with computers.
 
Man.. It looks like ours! lol..

Wierd to see a Sukoi nose on what looks like a Raptor fuselage.

Good to see they are still working on modern aircraft. I thought they were out of the picture for a while.


We have to remember that we came out with the F-15 and it did use qualities that the Russians used on their Sukoi's.
 
We have to remember that we came out with the F-15 and it did use qualities that the Russians used on their Sukoi's.

The F-15 was actually developed because of the MiG-25 which was developed because of the XB-70 which was developed because of the MiG-21 which was developed...

And yes, the Su-27 was the russian answer to the F-15.
 
We have to remember that we came out with the F-15 and it did use qualities that the Russians used on their Sukoi's.

This makes no sense. The leading Sukhoi fighter before the F-15 first flew in 1972 was the Su-21 Flagon. You also have the whole Su-7,9,17,22 series, but, once again, I fail to see any similarities to the F-15.

Now, Perhaps, you mean the MiG-25, but it's configuration can be seen in the NAA WS-300 design from around 1955, or the NAA A-5 Vigilante. Perhaps it isn't known here, but the original Vigilante design had two vertical tails, all the way to full scale mock-up, until they went to a single vertical tail for production.

Now, if you want to see an advanced "old" Soviet fighter, that presaged one of our designs, in terms of being an advanced lightweight fighter, look up the MiG Ye-8 at google. It was a very advanced development of the MiG-21, except it had a problem with engines blowing up; not MiG's fault, but it doomed the program. In some ways it presaged the F-16, but there were many conceptual designs with chin inlets on the boards.

Btw the canards on the Ye-8 aren't flight control surfaces. They were free to pivot at subsonic speeds, but locked in place at supersonic speeds. This was done to move the center of lift forward at supersonic speed and minimize trim drag. It was a very good mechanical solution to a difficult problem.
 
Personally, I don't think it does look much like the F-22. It reminds me much more of the old YF-23 Black Widow, if anything. I do know this: whatever it does or doesn't resemble, it's damned beautiful!

Much respect to Russia for coming up with yet another gorgeous fighter design. Can't wait to see this beast strut its stuff at an airshow.
 
Looks like an F-22 cross-bred with a YF-23.

Unless the Russians are better at integrating their new fighters into the fleet than we are I think the 2015 IOC date is a bit optimistic....

-G-
 
And we have another copy of a US design

Not really. The basic layout echo's that of the Flanker. Now add LO tech and you have the T-50. You'd actually have to know aircraft design to understand why, but the mission designs the aircraft and given a similar state of technology, aircraft will look similar. There are only so many good solutions to the same problem and it just turns out physics in Russia is the same as physics in the U.S.
 
Looks like an F-22 cross-bred with a YF-23.

Unless the Russians are better at integrating their new fighters into the fleet than we are I think the 2015 IOC date is a bit optimistic....

-G-

Don't forget that all the computer gizmos that go into a modern day US fighter tend to slow everything down.

In the boom years the US built some fantasticly revolutionary aircraft. Lockheed's A-12 is a fine example - CIA ordered them in 1960 while it was still a design on paper, first flight 1962, first operational flight in 1967 over South East Asia.

There are two distinct paths that military aircraft have to endure before production, the first is perhaps the easiest whereby the aircraft is designed and built in secrecy away from spending scrutiny and the public eye - examples are Blackbird family and F-117. Then there's the incredibly difficult and lengthy path like that the Raptor and Spirit endured in the public eye with politicians scrutinising spending and making cutbacks to win points with the voters.

Russia, if it does decide to go ahead with production should be able to field the aircraft in 2015 so long as it's not as complicated as the F-22.

Lets not forget the Russians datalinked their Mig 31 Foxhounds many, many years ago and fielded advanced weapon aiming capabilities to their Flankers, not to mention thrust vectoring on an operational jet - they should not be underestimated.
 
Believe me gentlemen. I wasnt underestimating them, nor was i ballyhooing their efforts. I have nothing BUT the greatest respect for Russias abilities to produce a plane that is not only equal too, but better than our own. After working on a flight model for their su-35/s-37 with it's operational canards and tail plane, i gave up. I'm not the exactly the brightest lightbulb on the marquee but i'm no slouch either, and the genius that went into the real su-35 was mind blowing.
No, rather, i believe i've been misread. What i rail against is the americans sense of nationalism. Its not patriotism, its the beast that says we're the best always, and screw anyone who doesnt agree. We arent the best always. we make our mistakes, and other countries around the world have moments of sheer brilliance as well, and deserve to be looked at in their own light, instead of in comparison to the touted propoganda of our own government.
This plane is a very good looking plane. it's going to be fun watching it develope. Its going to be even more fun watching the rest of the world react to it.. will they embrace it? will they develope against it?? what will the worlds nations do now??

Pam.
 
What i rail against is the americans sense of nationalism. Its not patriotism, its the beast that says we're the best always, and screw anyone who doesnt agree.

I completely agree. :mixedsmi:

It leads to complacency. The kind of complacency that both the US, UK and allies are witnessing now that we are fighting a low tech battle with WW3 technology. But thats another story altogether, one thats not for discussion here.
 
The Russians have always had decent engineering and during the Soviet years, their manufacturing capability was massive. Quality wise, some things they made were quite advanced while many other areas were not. In the Soviet days, the Kremlin held a no expense spared approach to building their military. The result was a bloated and inefficient system filled with numerous flaws which could be exploited by an enemy 1/10th the size. The cost of building and maintaining that giant military ended up causing the Soviet Union to be broke towards their end. If they had followed the same approach as the US, they would have been better off and turned out better hardware and still in sufficient numbers enough to defend their country.

Avionics and advanced communications were and still remain a weak point for them. The reasons they lag behind vary but it is wrong to assume they will never close the gap in avionics at least to a close degree. As for this T-50, a lot of the information about this aircraft and Russia's current manufacturing capability indicates that this is going to be a steep climb for them. They have a lot of issues with their manufacturing capability right now which need to be addressed(upgrades and retooling are direly needed). The other issue seems to be a serious shortage of advanced materials needed for building this aircraft. All these latter factors will likely mean serious delays in seeing it deployed either in Russia or India. I suspect it will be more like after 2020 before they start to really be seen anywhere. However, they may try to push it faster by using less advanced materials and processes. If they do that, I wouldn't expect it to be all that great of a plane. Even if they take their time and perfect the T-50, I still don't expect it to be anything stellar. I would even go so far as to say it will be a maintenance nightmare just as their other aircraft are. Just ask the nations that operate Mig-29's, SU-27's/SU-30's. Hangar queens for the most part. More than a few nations who operated these types dumped them because of the high costs and poor reliability. I don't expect any better out of the T-50. In fact, I bet it's cost will be so high that only 2 or 3 nations will buy it in numbers.

When anyone tried to compare Western/American hardware to Russian hardware, well combat from 1950 forward shows clear results. Especially when our side applied common sense and utilized proven approaches with adaptive thinking on the battlefield on ground or in air. Likewise we've seen results of assumption as well where we didn't do so well. Overall I'm comfortable in what we make and field.

So, time will tell if the T-50 turns out to be of great significance or not. It if does, maybe more F-22's will be built and some of our allies may need them down the road. Some Lockheed officials just mentioned yesterday that there's talk of an export model of the F-22. We'll see.
 
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