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The Staff of SOH
Vertigo Studios P36 Hawk Released.
- Thread starter Deano
- Start date
As I already said before; I definitely like the service
Cheers,
Huub
As always a pleasure, now for some time off....(or maybe do something else????)
Bruce
In the nose
1 × 0.30 in (7.62 mm) M1919 Browning Machine Gun
1 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning Machine Gun
In each wing
1 × 0.30 in (7.62 mm) M1919 Browning Machine Gun
Bruce
I know it is a bit of nitpicking, but as the Vertigo model depicts the French H-75 version, the aircraft was actually equipped with 4 FN-Browning 7.5mm machine guns. FN (Fabrique National d'Herstal) was a Belgium arms manufacturer, which already worked together with John Browning since 1898.
A not well known fact is that the well known British .303 Browning aircraft machine gun introduced in the late 1930s and used in World War II was actually a license-built FN Browning design and not a "Colt-Browning" as often referred to.
The Fins used ex-French H-75 Hawks, which were sold to them by the Germans, so the Hawks used by the Fins most probably still had the original French FN-Browning machine guns.
Cheers,
Huub
A not well known fact is that the well known British .303 Browning aircraft machine gun introduced in the late 1930s and used in World War II was actually a license-built FN Browning design and not a "Colt-Browning" as often referred to.
The Fins used ex-French H-75 Hawks, which were sold to them by the Germans, so the Hawks used by the Fins most probably still had the original French FN-Browning machine guns.
Cheers,
Huub
peter12213
FSX Acceleration!
They did have 303's until they replaced them with russian .50 cals or American ones I think!
As Finland fought against Russia until deep in 1944 and was regarded an ally of Germany for most of WW-II. Therefore I don't think replacement by Russian or American weapons is very logical. In 1944 when Finland made peace with Russia through the Moscow Armistice, they were forced to give up most of their army. So if the machine guns were replaced, replacement of the original 7.5mm guns by German MG 17 machine guns is perhaps more likely.
Cheers,
Huub
peter12213
FSX Acceleration!
The Finnish Hawks were initially armed with either four or six 0.295 in (7.5 mm) machine guns. While sufficient during the early phase of the Continuation War, the increasing speeds and armor of Soviet aircraft soon showed this armament was not powerful enough. From 1942, the State Aircraft Factory replaced the fuselage machine guns with either one or two 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Colt machine guns and installed two or four 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns in each wing. The 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Berezin UB or LKk/42 heavy machine guns were also used.<SUP id=cite_ref-BackwoodsFAF_7-2 class=reference>[8]</SUP> The installation of heavier armament did not change the very good flying characteristics of the fighter, but the armament was much more effective against Soviet planes. The Finnish Hawks were also equipped with Revi 3D or C/12D gunsight
Yep Peter, your right. As Wikipedia is an "open source" I'm always a bit careful. But it is mentioned in the book "Suomen ilmavoimien Historia Curtiss Hawk 75 A" as well.
Perhaps it is just me, but I still think it is a bit weird that Colt .50 machine guns obviously were delivered, while Finland was at war with Russia, which was at that time a full ally from the USA........ And that at the same time these American guns were mounted, German gun sights and radios (FuG 7a) were installed as well!
BTW in the same book I also learned the Cu-557 was a H-75 A6 originally delivered to Norway. So it might even have had Colt-Browning guns already.
Cheers,
Huub
Perhaps it is just me, but I still think it is a bit weird that Colt .50 machine guns obviously were delivered, while Finland was at war with Russia, which was at that time a full ally from the USA........ And that at the same time these American guns were mounted, German gun sights and radios (FuG 7a) were installed as well!
BTW in the same book I also learned the Cu-557 was a H-75 A6 originally delivered to Norway. So it might even have had Colt-Browning guns already.
Cheers,
Huub
JensOle
SOH-CM-2023
It was not weird at all to find American and or British weapons in Finnish aircraft during ww2. During the winter war in 1939 both countries sympathized with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Finland</st1lace></st1:country-region> and supplied military equipment. So the 12.7 mm Colt should be readily available to the Fins during ww2 for use in aircraft as the Hawk 75. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>Some more info I found on a Finnish site:<o
></o>A-1: 2 fuselage and 2 wing mounted 7.5 mm FN-Browning MGs; from the end of 1942: 1 or 2 fuselage mounted 12.7 mm Colt, Berezin UB or LKK/42 MGs and 2 wing mounted 7.7 mm Browning MGs<o
></o>A-2/4: 1 or 2 fuselage and 4 wing mounted 7.5 mm FN-Browning MGs; from 1942: 2 fuselage mounted 12.7 mm Colt, Berezin UB or LKK/42 MGs and 4 wing mounted 7.7 mm Browning MGs<o
></o>A-6 (former Norwegian): 2 fuselage and 2 wing mounted 7.9 mm Colt MGs; from 1942: 1 or 2 fuselage mounted 12.7 mm Colt, Berezin UB or LKK/42 MGs and 2 wing mounted 7.7 mm Browning MGs
<o
></o>Basically this tells use that the Fins put all sort of heavy MGs into their Hawks, starting in late 1942.
Regards
Jens-Ole<o
></o>
It is a bit weird, but I am a sort of intrigued by this subject. Therefore I did some further reading. The Berezin UB gun were acquired on the same way the Klimov engines for the MS.406 were obtained.
I still couldn't find how the Fins got hold of their American guns, but the Twin Wasp Junior engines for the license built Fokker D.XXI fighters were bought via Sweden.
Cheers,
Huub
I still couldn't find how the Fins got hold of their American guns, but the Twin Wasp Junior engines for the license built Fokker D.XXI fighters were bought via Sweden.
Cheers,
Huub
Love all the repaints and such, but wish these "just released" threads would have more "review" type replies, i.e., how does it handle, what do it's handling qualities compare to, etc., etc.
If I buy it, it's not going to be for the repaints, but for how it flies, how the VC works, etc.
Not criticizing, just stating my interests, I guess.
(So, anyone got a review they'd like to post? I can really only afford one addon this month, should it be this one?)
If I buy it, it's not going to be for the repaints, but for how it flies, how the VC works, etc.
Not criticizing, just stating my interests, I guess.
(So, anyone got a review they'd like to post? I can really only afford one addon this month, should it be this one?)
Tracy as I have been involved in this project as beta tester, I'm perhaps a bit biased. But this is something I wrote to a friend and therefore it should be my honest personal opinion.
The model is very nice. It looks great in spot view and at least on my humble system framerates as quite decent. I have the framerate locked at 20 fps and this can be easily maintained. I dislike the pilot model and the model is a bit too glossy to my taste. Personally I prefer the replacement textures by Bruce Martin above the original textures done by Dan Dunn. Due to the complex texture lay-out, stretching, different angles and the fact that several part have a different scale the model is difficult to repaint. Some repaints are even impossible to do!
The model is a very close model of the "Fighters collection" H-75. Therefore it isn't a real H-75 nor a real P-36. The Fighters collection claim their H-75 is a H-75 A1. However there are many American parts used during the rebuild and some parts were not introduced before the H-75 A3 version. Some parts which are used on the Fighters collection H-75 are "borrowed from a P-40 and were even never used on the P-36.
Therefore the Vertigo model is neither fish nor flesh, like the "Fighters collection" H-75.
There is something really odd with the flight model. According to what I have read, the P-36/H-75 was an easy aircraft to fly. The model is quite easy to fly as well. However when I look at the CoG this is way to far to the back! It is extremely hard to get the model to stall and when it stalls it is almost too easy to restore normal flight. Performance however is quite close to the real thing.
Vertigo/Dean Greasley is planning to bring out a more complex version of this P-36/H-75, with engine failures etc. Therefore the controls in this model are rather simple. Most switches don't work and apart from a functioning constant speed prop there isn't much exiting in the cockpit. Although it sure looks extremely nice.
There are several reasons why I prefer this model above the A2A P-40. Most important; the P-36 is much easier to fly and flies most probably much more realistic. When a pilot should put as much effort in flying an aircraft as needed in the A2A P-40 their wasn't much time left to fight the enemy!
The final verdict:
The Vertigo P-36/H-75 is in my opinion not in the same league as the Classics-Hangar FW-190s and recent A2A products. The flight model needs improvement on some minor points and the model is not a fully authentic H-75 nor a P-36 and hard to repaint. However the model is very nice details detailed and looks very well. So although there is quite some room for improvement the model definitely scores a 7 out of 10.
Cheers,
Huub
The model is very nice. It looks great in spot view and at least on my humble system framerates as quite decent. I have the framerate locked at 20 fps and this can be easily maintained. I dislike the pilot model and the model is a bit too glossy to my taste. Personally I prefer the replacement textures by Bruce Martin above the original textures done by Dan Dunn. Due to the complex texture lay-out, stretching, different angles and the fact that several part have a different scale the model is difficult to repaint. Some repaints are even impossible to do!
The model is a very close model of the "Fighters collection" H-75. Therefore it isn't a real H-75 nor a real P-36. The Fighters collection claim their H-75 is a H-75 A1. However there are many American parts used during the rebuild and some parts were not introduced before the H-75 A3 version. Some parts which are used on the Fighters collection H-75 are "borrowed from a P-40 and were even never used on the P-36.
Therefore the Vertigo model is neither fish nor flesh, like the "Fighters collection" H-75.
There is something really odd with the flight model. According to what I have read, the P-36/H-75 was an easy aircraft to fly. The model is quite easy to fly as well. However when I look at the CoG this is way to far to the back! It is extremely hard to get the model to stall and when it stalls it is almost too easy to restore normal flight. Performance however is quite close to the real thing.
Vertigo/Dean Greasley is planning to bring out a more complex version of this P-36/H-75, with engine failures etc. Therefore the controls in this model are rather simple. Most switches don't work and apart from a functioning constant speed prop there isn't much exiting in the cockpit. Although it sure looks extremely nice.
There are several reasons why I prefer this model above the A2A P-40. Most important; the P-36 is much easier to fly and flies most probably much more realistic. When a pilot should put as much effort in flying an aircraft as needed in the A2A P-40 their wasn't much time left to fight the enemy!
The final verdict:
The Vertigo P-36/H-75 is in my opinion not in the same league as the Classics-Hangar FW-190s and recent A2A products. The flight model needs improvement on some minor points and the model is not a fully authentic H-75 nor a P-36 and hard to repaint. However the model is very nice details detailed and looks very well. So although there is quite some room for improvement the model definitely scores a 7 out of 10.
Cheers,
Huub
Well, I went to the order link, and the only option to pay was Paypal. Too bad, I would have liked this plane.
"Clunky" purchase options don't do it for me,
Carenado and A2A, to mention just a couple, are able to streamline the buying process, others need not apply.
A shame, really, because you are just cutting your own throat.
"Clunky" purchase options don't do it for me,
Carenado and A2A, to mention just a couple, are able to streamline the buying process, others need not apply.
A shame, really, because you are just cutting your own throat.
Usually when I buy through PayPal they give you an option to buy using a credit card.
I really enjoy this type of 'nitpicking' as it makes flying this bird even more enjoyable to me. Keep it up y'all, thanks for sharing your knowledge:salute:
Z
Z-DarthVader
Guest
some screenies of me flying this bird
