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TSA head says flying is a "privilege" not a right?

The simple fact is that the 9\11 attacks did change our world. As to whether the terrorists have won because our society changed as a reaction to that, they only win if the public cowers in a hole and pulls it in over their heads.

Are the new security rules a pain in the ass? Yes.
Are they sometimes invasive? Yes.
Are they going to stop me from flying? Hell no. I'd rather show up at the airport a few hours early, put a smile on face and be patted down than allow some unwashed ***tard with a long scruffy beard squatting in a cave somewhere to prevent me from going where I need to be.

Make the best of it, and go on with your life. Any other course of action, and the terrorists DO win.
 
Astoroth said:
The simple fact is that the 9\11 attacks did change our world. As to whether the terrorists have won because our society changed as a reaction to that, they only win if the public cowers in a hole and pulls it in over their heads.

Are the new security rules a pain in the ass? Yes.
Are they sometimes invasive? Yes.
Are they going to stop me from flying? Hell no. I'd rather show up at the airport a few hours early, put a smile on face and be patted down than allow some unwashed ***tard with a long scruffy beard squatting in a cave somewhere to prevent me from going where I need to be.

Make the best of it, and go on with your life. Any other course of action, and the terrorists DO win.
Click to expand...
i agree
now i do bathe once a year and trim my beard:salute:
but you said it as i see it
H
 
a right vs privaledge

a right is you can drink a gallon of vodka
before you drive that is your right
a privilege is what will be taken away after you do
your license
H
 
Flying on airliners is not a privilege or a right. It's a contract. Just like buying a cheeseburger. Once I hand over the cash, Micky-Ds is not granting me the privilege of a Big Mack. It's not their Big Mack anymore, it's mine, subject, of course, to all the other 10 billion laws that affect the distribution, sale, and consumption of cheeseburgers.
 
I think everyone has a lot of good points here, but I will throw in the one thing that's sort of been danced around, but not addressed directly.

The TSA does not make law. It is empowered to effect reasonable administration and regulation of security, consistent with the law as established by the Congress. What is irritating most Americans is that the TSA, through it's latest search protocol is extending it's power beyond it's legislated authorities, and may well be violating restrictions against unreasonable search and seizure, i.e. one without probable cause.

Discussions about "right or privilege" to fly are in my opinion irrelevant. The very question assumes authorization is provided by the government, rather than between two legal parties (the passenger and the carrier). Of course there's a right to fly, just as there's a right to make a legal contract between two parties (that's what a ticket is). Such contracts are the basis of our whole republican form of government.

Why would you think otherwise?

Certainly, there's a certain amount of regulatory activity in any transaction, and security can be part of that, but not at the expense of basic civil rights.

Frankly I'm shocked at the attitude of some in the Dept of Homeland Security and the TSA, who seem to want to ignore citizens concerns with arrogant comments about "they don't have to fly". That's an awful lot of gall coming from folks who don't fly on commercial airliners but travel on gov't jets. Who do these people think they are? Who do they think they work for?

What this will lead to is action in court, which could in turn lead to the whole system being tossed out. Think of the impact on security should that happen! Clearly a self defeating response on the part of these officials.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.
 
stansdds said:
HouseHobbit and Allen are both correct. We are trading freedom and liberty for security and safety and the security and safety we are being given is a joke. Any terrorist who is sufficiently motivated is going to make his or her statement and there is no stopping it with the fondling of a persons private parts. I'm curious as to how other nations are handling their security. I know the Israelis don't grope, but seem to be quite effective at deterring the terrorists.
Click to expand...
That's because the Israelis concentrate more on the person than the belonging. They look at mannerisms and expressions to find those with less-than-honorable intentions. I also seem to remember that they unabashedly profile, but I could be mistaken about that.

While our own TSA is not supposed to be profiling, I have heard that there is a program in place to teach certain agents how to "read people" like the Israelis. So if you see an agent or two just wandering around, looking like they have nothing to do, try not to act supicious around them...:monkies:
 
Many questions directed to the TSA,
one was fasinating.....Ques: what if a terrorist inserted a device in one of his/hers orfices...a practice used to conceal things in prisions.??..Answer:.........................................................................................................

'Don't Touch My Junk' ...may be the new American war cry!!.......
 
Here's a brain-buster: how many different ways, and by how many different people can privilege be misspelled? :redface:
 
Reply...

Tom Clayton said:
That's because the Israelis concentrate more on the person than the belonging. They look at mannerisms and expressions to find those with less-than-honorable intentions. I also seem to remember that they unabashedly profile, but I could be mistaken about that.

While our own TSA is not supposed to be profiling, I have heard that there is a program in place to teach certain agents how to "read people" like the Israelis. So if you see an agent or two just wandering around, looking like they have nothing to do, try not to act suspicious around them...:monkies:
Click to expand...

Oh, come on. If I came across one of those agents, just for fun, I'd put on a pair of Groucho Marx glasses, say "excuse me," and go "A-BOOGITY BOOGITY BOO." I don't know if they'd consider that suspicious, but it might make their day a bit more interesting.

And as far as the whole groping thing, I've got no problem with anyone handling my junk. After getting snip-snipped this year, it's pretty much "junk" to begin with.
 
I have a lot I could say about the subject matter of this thread...but I won't. Not only would it get the thread locked, it would most likely get me banned for a while, have the entire extremist horde chanting death threats against me, result in every citizen militia group in the nation using me as their poster child and would tarnish my exulted position as a moderator LOL!

OBIO
 
LoL....It's law of the jungle.

Re: the profit Darwin.

There are no true rights or privelidges. You get what you can get when you get it, anywhere on planet earth. Beware the larger, faster, and/or smarter animals. It's a jungle full of racing rats, cannibal dogs, and a few that fart in confined spaces, but only when you're there.

With that I reflect briefly, and realize that there may in fact be one irrevocable right that we all share; Dead or alive, or anywhere in between, it would be the right to pass gas. At work or at play, especially in bed with spouse, even on airliners with fully armed air marshalls. It a fundamental physical right.

And that's the trufpfpfpth.

:jump:
 
I predict this "groping" tactic will be a flash in the pan, soon to be abandoned. No regulatory/enforcement agency can withstand the gigantic citizen tidal wave of opposition that is brewing.


:running:
 
Willy said:
Florida's Orlando-Sanford Intl Airport has decided to opt out of TSA screenings and hire private security.



http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/florida-airport-to-opt-out-of-tsa-screening
Click to expand...
Private security firms must hold the same standards for searches as the TSA. So instead of a government employee copping a feel, you get a private employee copping a feel. Perhaps the only difference would be a more thorough background check and possibly training for the private firms.
 
TeaSea said:
What is irritating most Americans is that the TSA, through it's latest search protocol is extending it's power beyond it's legislated authorities, and may well be violating restrictions against unreasonable search and seizure, i.e. one without probable cause.
Click to expand...


Yes, the TSA has tried to make a power grab a number of times. A few years ago they informed air carriers that if any aircrew member going through a security checkpoint appeared to be a security risk, the TSA would immediately revoke that crewmember's license. The TSA even went on to say that an aircrewmember that was being less than fully cooperative, or "difficult" at the checkpoint would qualify as a security risk. The airlines and the unions threw the BS flag down on that one real fast. Even the FAA said the TSA was overstepping their bounds...only the FAA has the power to revoke a license.

The TSA wanted to be authorized to arrest people, too. Fortunately, they never got that.
 
well maybe my idea of rights vs prilages is backasswards from what ive been reading here...but someone made the comment about paying for a seat on an airline and then still not getting a seat..of hear of this..and this happened once to me with southwest...i wont say what happened as i cant..BUT i got ALL my debt paid off and they wont ever do it to me again...

NO ONE will charge me for something and not give me what i paid for..not even an airline..and as ive said..soouthwest tried....and lost...

bottomline though ill conceed to all of you on this rights vs privlage...as i feel i may have my thoughts backasswards...but the person talking about DV and driving be a privlage even though we pay through the nose in taxes as licenced drivers in taxes and license fee and many many other things....

i worked at a DMV one day and the woman told me it was my privlage to work for her...i think this is how come i get so angry when this comes up...but she said it was a privlage for me to be allowed to work in a DMV office...i looked at her said...no B&&&ch,it your privlage im giving you a place to sit and s#@t...been angry ever since...
 
Daveroo said:
well maybe my idea of rights vs prilages is backasswards from what ive been reading here...but someone made the comment about paying for a seat on an airline and then still not getting a seat..of hear of this..and this happened once to me with southwest...i wont say what happened as i cant..BUT i got ALL my debt paid off and they wont ever do it to me again...

NO ONE will charge me for something and not give me what i paid for..not even an airline..and as ive said..soouthwest tried....and lost...

bottomline though ill conceed to all of you on this rights vs privlage...as i feel i may have my thoughts backasswards...but the person talking about DV and driving be a privlage even though we pay through the nose in taxes as licenced drivers in taxes and license fee and many many other things....

i worked at a DMV one day and the woman told me it was my privlage to work for her...i think this is how come i get so angry when this comes up...but she said it was a privlage for me to be allowed to work in a DMV office...i looked at her said...no B&&&ch,it your privlage im giving you a place to sit and s#@t...been angry ever since...
Click to expand...
You keep confusing the TSA with the airline. It's not Southwest's fault if you refuse to comply with the TSA. Kind of funny to get pissed off at the airline for something they had nothing to do with.

You're correct, we pay fees to the DMV. You may think they can't, but they CAN deny you a driver's license if you make a habit of driving like a tool. Hence the idea that driving is not a "right". The state can revoke your license and not allow you to drive, and I promise you... they won't be violating your constitutional rights in doing so. It isn't one of your rights to hold a driver's license.
 
Willy said:
Florida's Orlando-Sanford Intl Airport has decided to opt out of TSA screenings and hire private security.



http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-national/florida-airport-to-opt-out-of-tsa-screening
Click to expand...


FYI, San Francisco International screening is done by a private company since the beginning of
the TSA "era". It was one of 5 airports nationwide that was chosen for a study to see if private
companies could provide the same or better services compared to TSA.

All screeners there are trained by TSA and must pass periodic tests.

Paul
 
ou keep confusing the TSA with the airline. It's not Southwest's fault if you refuse to comply with the TSA. Kind of funny to get pissed off at the airline for something they had nothing to do with.from airattack

not at all ..it was john pistole from TSA who made the comment that made me angry...again..i dont care who the hell he is..or who the TSA is..yes i agree that we need security...but ill be damned if im going to pay for a service and have someone from anouther agincy like tsa tell me i dont have the right to use the service ive paid for....i know i talk in circles and cant express myself well..i have ADD/ADHD...but i think i said it there...

and my problem wasnt with complying with TSA....i paid for a ticket..went to the airport..went through check in..got to the door of the airplane and was refused a seat because they OVERBOOKED and refused to let me board...and then said i didnt have the right to be reembursed nor did i have the right to have a new flight..that i took a chance...i took them to court and won...i guess now they make you buy insurance...
 
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