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whats the point

J

jeansy

No longer active
as the title suggest, its a rant

I seriously have to ask whats the point in this

ive lost count on the number times when a payware addon developer visits here and else where and rants or directs you, when you have issues or questions post it on their forums

the the past hour ive visited 4 fairly well known payware addon developer sites

all 4 sites are a ghost town, even the tumble weeds have packed up and left town , i lost count on how many posts were members have asked for assistance or asked a question and there has been no reply, I honestly can say its not like its a recent post most of them have been around for months view several views, and funny enough devs have posted in the forums since

I can think of 2 sites where the staff have posted screen shots and other staff have commented on the shot but have left everyones posts ignored and where majority of posts had ZERO replies and some even had bumps from the original poster, i can even say there are posts asking if anyone is out there?

so is there such thing as customer service? and whats the point of using these fruitless forums? and it can even be extended to this place, how many times has members raised a question and then you see a reply in the thread 3 posts later about something else, I can recall not long ago where a member asked a question and was ignored several times while a dev replied to other posts

If you dont reply, does that mean the question will sort it self out and disappear?

it just ##### me to tears that some people are quick to take money and complain about rivet counters, but provide very little support or guidance and ignore majority of posts of interested/concerned/potential customers

i for one want to show my gratitude, that members here raise theses issues and we are sorting them out within SOH , otherwise many people would see the effects of global warming before any assistance in reply form on certain payware forums

its just piss poor...:a1451:
 
Ok many payware groups request that you get support in their forums because they wish to know whether you legally bought the software (by checking up sales records etc) and if you pirated the software then the consequence is you get no support.

We at Milviz for one are always ready to provide support so if you do get one of our products I can promise the response will be quick.
 
You have a good point, one I would bet that many have noticed time and time again. It's happened to me, so I know it can be frustrating.

Rant approved! Lol.
 
Naruto-kun said:
Ok many payware groups request that you get support in their forums because they wish to know whether you legally bought the software (by checking up sales records etc) and if you pirated the software then the consequence is you get no support.

We at Milviz for one are always ready to provide support so if you do get one of our products I can promise the response will be quick.
Click to expand...


Hey you guys are alright, there are some shockers out there who dont even reply to general questions about a package that some one is interested in

there is even a forum where beta testers do most of the replies, which normally end in "thats weird we didn't experience that" and leave it at that, no word from the dev, or follow up and sometimes only post PR screenshots on a up coming model

after having a detailed look tonight , yes you guys are doing quite well
 
Wow Matt! How bizarre this is... Yesterday, I typed out a post almost identical to yours, only MUCH longer, and listing many more points regarding recent trends amoung payware developer support, and attitude towards customers.

Before hitting the 'post' key however, I read it again, and said out loud to myself.... "Oh, what's the ******* point". It currently sits on my desktop as a three page Word document!

There really does seem to be 'something in the air' lately from more than just a couple of devs/publishers.

Hopefully, things will change.
 
While it is true that many times some developer's forums appear to be wastelands where replies -if any- are few and far between, sometimes what isn't seen is that many such questions are taken care of either via PM's, email, or even telephone...

Some questions and/or problems touch on sensitive areas where public discussion would reveal too many details about product protection for example, so such are handled privately.

By and large though, the majority of reported problems are either local hardware/software issues or PEBKAC type errors. In the latter case, those too are handled privately so as not to further embarrass the poster. I try to remember to post a reply to the effect that the issues were resolved offline, but sometimes forget to do so.
 
Good points Matt and something I've found has become a trend, and one I don't think is "convenient" to everyone is the trend towards moving support and basic forum posts to "Facebook and Twitter". I have a Facebook Account, yet every day I see subtle changes to even my personal page, things that looked one way yesterday have suddenly changed and "where did all that stuff I posted yesterday get to?"

I understand that a lot of folks use Facebook and Twitter, but it's not universal and many folks find it confusing and irritating that they have yet another site that requires an ID and Password, lol. Honestly, if you couldn't answer posts for help in a confined area like your own website Forums page, why would you think that suddenly by moving to Facebook, it would get any better? Have you seen a typical page in Facebook? It's paragraph after paragraph of replies, some related and some not and after a full day of postings, that question you asked has disappeared down the bottom of the page. If the developer isn't constantly monitoring the pages, I promise you, your question (and possibly even the answer) will be lost. I don't see the advantage.
 
I think the internet with its non face to face interface between the customer and the seller is a big factor. If I buy something local I can walk in the store and they have to deal with me. Online its the who cares attitutde. I am to busy working on the issue, building something else, we are on vacation for 6 months, Pirates stole my product, the project lead left, there is no one in charge we are a group, These are comman reponses from different internet companys providing products. How much support do we offer you for your $50 dollar purchase, we dont have the time, you need to pay more for our support?
Common guys no mater how big or small your project is if your asking people to buy your product and spend there hard earned money you have to give them a working product. If you cant offer support take your fourms offline and state that up front to the person buying it. I should be able to get out of the parking lot before the tire falls off :)
If your offering computer software, you have to know you will be selling to people with different computer knowlege behind the keyboard from the 12 year old kid to the 80 year old retirie. On this point after a certain length of time a product is out you have to end your support too ie something thats been out for 3 years built for xp you might drop but atleast email your customers and tell them the warrenty is ended.
just had to add my two cents
Shane
 
falcon409 said:
Good points Matt and something I've found has become a trend, and one I don't think is "convenient" to everyone is the trend towards moving support and basic forum posts to "Facebook and Twitter". I have a Facebook Account, yet every day I see subtle changes to even my personal page, things that looked one way yesterday have suddenly changed and "where did all that stuff I posted yesterday get to?"

I understand that a lot of folks use Facebook and Twitter, but it's not universal and many folks find it confusing and irritating that they have yet another site that requires an ID and Password, lol. Honestly, if you couldn't answer posts for help in a confined area like your own website Forums page, why would you think that suddenly by moving to Facebook, it would get any better? Have you seen a typical page in Facebook? It's paragraph after paragraph of replies, some related and some not and after a full day of postings, that question you asked has disappeared down the bottom of the page. If the developer isn't constantly monitoring the pages, I promise you, your answer will be lost. I don't see the advantage.
Click to expand...

Wasn't going to join this thread, because I know my opnion is unwelcome to many of you, but ......

As I have mentioned before, in a previous thread, the Facebook approach has some serious upsides to it; I was able to 'talk' with Larry in real time to sort out a problem with the Banshee pack uring the recent promotion, the whole thing took about 30 minutes - would probably have taken days via a forum. Sure, it is not for everybody, but don't dismiss it.

I've seen a comment elsewhere to the effect that Facebook is an open door to hackers; don't know if that used to be true (it's never happened to me, and I've had a Facebook account for about 8 years), but they security options are pretty thorough now. And yes Falcon, I agree, the constant changes to FB are pretty irritating, but there are ways for suppliers to manage that (setting up a group, for example).

Naruto-kun, they want us to use their forums so they can prove to themselves we are legit? Not going to comment on that directly, upsetting developers tends to be frowned on around here!!! But ..... I started a similar thread to this over in FS9 a while back, because I was as fed up as Matt was at the (lack of) support I was receiving from a couple of companies; one of them, Flight1, eventually sorted out my problem, but only after receiving a very rude response to my support ticket & making a comment in their public forum that they could not see my order (i.e. implying I had a pirated copy). The reason they couldn't find it, and why the product would not reinstall, was because the order was so old it had not been transferred to their new database; a suggestion I made to them at the start of the process, which they chose to ignore. The other company, Virtavia, have never responded to a couple of support requests. Frankly I'm unlikely to be putting much money in either direction at the moment, as I don't feel the support will be there if anything goes wrong.

OK, that is MY rant over. I'll get my coat & go back to FS9.
 
Who ever does the support and how they do it is going to be different from each company, I just want them to remain professional to me, the customer, and trouble shoot the problem in a timely manner.
 
For those that like Facebook it seems to be a viable alternative to devs' forums. I don't see it as an issue personally although I'm not keen on it myself.
 
Right on Jeansy! They don't respond or they use their other favorite, "It's your system", even though every other developer's similar product works just fine. I have a problem where one developer's planes won't install properly, whereas four or five other developer's planes install just fine. Of course it's my system that's the problem, not their product.

By the way, I see no one is naming names. Is that against the forum rules?

Joe
 
There are no rules per se, but the thread has been discussed and we would like to not see names. A generic discussion is not a problem. :salute:
 
I completely agree with you guys.

I'm kind of feeling that FS is wearing out. The communities aren't as active anymore. Payware companies are disappearing or becoming completely silent. There aren't that many players on FS host nor gamespy. People just don't seem very excited about things anymore. Everyone was looking forward to the biggest FS aircraft release (PMDG NGX), but since then, simmers have been quiet. I think we need another product or something to get people talking again. Maybe that product/something is Flight?
 
Kiwikat said:
I completely agree with you guys.

I'm kind of feeling that FS is wearing out. The communities aren't as active anymore. Payware companies are disappearing or becoming completely silent. There aren't that many players on FS host nor gamespy. People just don't seem very excited about things anymore. Everyone was looking forward to the biggest FS aircraft release (PMDG NGX), but since then, simmers have been quiet. I think we need another product or something to get people talking again. Maybe that product/something is Flight?
Click to expand...

Fs2008 (FsXI) Fs2010 (FsXII)...didn't happen...but it's still the best we've got, thanks to all those developers who've enhanced our unfinished FsX (Fs2006/2007)
 
Kiwikat said:
........ The communities aren't as active anymore........
Click to expand...

You should pop over to the FS9 forum sometime, we're still a pretty lively bunch, a few very interesting things bubbling under. It's the same with the CFS2 & CFS3 guys, MS & the payware guys decided to move onto the next big thing, so they've decided to make their own fun - CFS3 has an especially active community, where they have taken the basic sim is astonishing.

And, to be honest, I think the same applies to FSX. In my opinion some of the most interesting stuff is coming from the freeware guys, the enthusiasts, the community; I saw more buzz & excitement about Rob Richardson's Shackleton than I did about the NGX, for example - amd I know I'm biased, being British, but the guys at Flying Stations are producing some amazing stuff, I bet ther long-awaited Buccaneer will have that same bizz. Also worth noting, in view of what this thread is about, that the level of service & support offered by both Britsim & Flying Stations is impeccable; the oft noted download issues at Britsim (caused, largely, by the demand for their product) was dealt with in the longer term by Rob English putting his hand in his pocket and in the shorter term by alternative download links supplied by the sadly missed Leif. If the payware companies offered me THAT level of service, I would have no issues.
 
This whole topic is not a good thing to have to happen. Hopefully the devs will see where their lack of responding is going and will wake up. I mean, what's the point in having a support forum if there's no lights on in the shop. I know, point taken. When the whole flightsim movie is over, someone turn out the lights and close the door. The whole world is under our feet. I just might by a new pair of shoes and go hiking elsewhere.
 
I was going to stay out of this but I'll kick in my 2 cents, I have had to go to a couple of payware forums to find some answers I had regarding their products. What I found was almost a total lack of involvement from the companies and the users solving the problems. Last year I found a problem regarding fuel consumption on a UH-1Y. I played around with the cfg. found a good solution and then contacted the company in question about the bug and the fix. My email was short, respectful and to the point, any reply? None, zip, nada, they could have at least told me to ---- off. I don't know if the fix was looked at, incorporated or ignored, most likely the last option. As for a forum for them none, you're on your own. There was once a product forum that was very active until it was taken down with no warning, guess what since then I have not purchased anything released of theirs. While the payware forums might be dead from apathy the forums like SOH and HC are visibly active and it's the end users are doing all the de-bugging anyway so why should the payware companies offer any support. Most are unresponsive and a few view you as a pirate until you prove otherwise, one will still accuse you of piracy even after you produce your receipt, product key and first born, so why bother. Freeware is still rolling out and the quality is close to or actually payware, Piglet's offerings come to mind. I just stay away from those places unless I really have to. My rant and two cents, for what they're worth.
 
Our forum is just one way of getting support. There is also E-mail, and I troll as many forums as possible, but since our team is just about 3 people, we cant afford a dedicated support team. So far nothing has really lingered without being responded too within a few hours, and fix mostly in the same day. Considering how small the team is without a dedicated support team, thats rather remarkable. The thing is, a lot of teams are like this!!! Even the biggest teams DONT have a dedicated support person or team. Thats just the result of such a small fan based community. If we sold thousands of products for 40-60$ each, im sure we could.

Also, simply put, support for FSX is just FUSTRATING. You have what "should" be a simple product, not give you any problems with any testers, and once you release it, all hell brakes loose. Why? Simple. You can never test for every situation! You have an unlimited amount of computer configs, OS, pre-installed add-on's and so on. Sometimes DLL's fight, sometimes a product steps on another. You never know till its out there "in the wild" and then you try to do what we can to put out the fires we can.

Overall, we do the best we can with the limited resources we have. The point is to centrally locate support, so what little resources we do have are not spread thin over multiple forums. If someone's NOT filling that obligation, I cant speak for them. Ultimatly, vote with your wallette.
 
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