Might wanna be sitting down for this one...

[crashaz]

We (the team at large) did ask about the possibility of buying the IP, but the answer was that MS believes in the IP and would not be willing to sell it.

Damn... well that answered my question. I know a guy who has that kind of money. Right now he is negotiations to buy an oil refinery if he wanted.. merely has to snap his fingers.

However if MS wont sell I guess we just have to wait for the inevitable:

FS for XBOX.

Which I will not buy.

I know those are the guys running the Entertainment Division. So when the news broke about this so called annual conference was held.. and they had to decide where to make cuts... they thought... lets get rid of the PC gaming guys once and for all... we will get rid of the flagship.

I was a Microsoft loyal customer because of the goodwill of Flight Simulator and team...now that goodwill is gone. They just shut the doors to the whole shop.. no apologies, no explanation.

I am going to be making it my mission to go into every business opportunity and push MS CRM out the door... if I have to lower my profits... so be it... Saleslogix in.... MSCRM out.

Thanks for filling us in Paul.

Glad you guys asked.

 

[Bjoern]

Hi guys,

as for the TS2 release date, now obsolete, see http://tsinsider.com/product/overview.aspx

I don't think it was in Beta yet but pretty far advanced. Can you imagine putting all that creative energy into a huge project like this and then someone from upstairs tells you and your colleagues to clear your desk within 24 hours, and don't forget to switch off the lights...

So they pulled a Fallout 3/Command & Conquer:Tiberium on TS2? Ouch!

What if you got a huge gaming firm to carry it and make a offer with 'huge figures'? like Obi-Soft...?

Please, for the love of the big guy, no! Neither Ubisoft nor EA nor THQ are fit and worthy to have a serious flight simulator in their portfolio.

Either find a small, independent publisher (Stardock?), found a new one or can FS for good.

But I won't accept any DRM terror from the big players in the game business anymore!
(Although Ubisoft has somehow seen the light and published two or three recent games without any DRM at all...)

 

[bkeske]

FS for XBOX.

Which I will not buy.

Neither would I, or most any serious flight simmer.

I do believe this transformation would have happened eventually, and we would be exactly where we are now. It just happened more unexpectedly than if it were announced ahead of time.

IMO, PC simulation's are becoming increasingly more rare, and because of that, may be hard to justify the amount of cash MS was capable of throwing at it.

...but....if X-Plane has had some success, perhaps there is hope, as I truly believe the real stars of the 'flight sim world' are, or have been, associated with the Sub-Logic/MS/Fly products. We have some of the best of the best within the MS based community, I hope they continue on, and perhaps our supersede our expectations. They always seem to.

 

[crashaz]

How much would it cost to start from the ground up? Made a phone call and let them know that FS is not for sale.

Now they want to know how long it would take to write from the ground up?

I figure 3 years at a cost of $8-10 million a year. Which is much less then what they would purchase an oil refinery for.

I did look up last night that in 2007 FSX sold 280K copies... @ $50/copy that is $14 million.

I did not give them that figure though. Wanted to ask what the former ACES team thought. These guys I talked to would not go without key members of the team.

Drop me a PM if you don't want to discuss publically guys.

 

[empeck]

It's interesting, what is going on in the simming world. Big studios doesn't make sims anymore. After Ubisoft published Il2 and LockOn, they don't have even one simulation title in their portfolio (well, they may be the Storm of War: Battle of Britain publisher, but official SoW forums are hosted at 1C, not at Ubi).

All upcoming flight sims, maybe except SoW are being made by small groups of hobbyists. I think we can't count on big publishers anymore.

 

[P-12C]

I can feel the anger, and I'm sure the anger will increase before it decreases.

They are declining to sell the IP because I honestly believe they want to bring it back... later. The problem would be that it gets more and more difficult to bring it back as it is today (albeit with improvements) the longer time marches on without the knowledge in the team members heads the harder it will be to bring back.

Maybe it will be reinvented with new stuff, which might require new ideas, or maybe it won't.

I do believe there is hope, but it will likely be a long road and may not look quite the same.

I do still technically work at Microsoft, and I intend to find a position at Microsoft, so I certainly won't slam the company overall. The decisions they are making may actually end up with all of us in a better situation down the road.

Damn... well that answered my question. I know a guy who has that kind of money. Right now he is negotiations to buy an oil refinery if he wanted.. merely has to snap his fingers.

However if MS wont sell I guess we just have to wait for the inevitable:

FS for XBOX.

Which I will not buy.

I know those are the guys running the Entertainment Division. So when the news broke about this so called annual conference was held.. and they had to decide where to make cuts... they thought... lets get rid of the PC gaming guys once and for all... we will get rid of the flagship.

I was a Microsoft loyal customer because of the goodwill of Flight Simulator and team...now that goodwill is gone. They just shut the doors to the whole shop.. no apologies, no explanation.

I am going to be making it my mission to go into every business opportunity and push MS CRM out the door... if I have to lower my profits... so be it... Saleslogix in.... MSCRM out.

Thanks for filling us in Paul.

Glad you guys asked.

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Thanks for the clarification Paul.

I understand 6 team mambers are keft to settle outstanding contracts, and archive the data and code. Hopefully these guys will do a great job. If the FS series gets resurrected, that code, and whoever can come back to the new team, will be the only links to the FS past.

Good luck Paul! Hope you get the new job.

Dick

 

[Lionheart]

If Microsoft actually fired all of the people they will need to build the new metaverse, then Steve Ballmer missed shooting himself in the foot and actually hit his own head. Google can hire them all and Microsoft will fall away like the old Roman Empire.

LOL...

That would be a bit funny. Google taking over MS.



Back to the topic.. I believe it is the people that make a company, not the machines, and in this case, the code. The code is all upstairs, in the 'noggin'. A new code could be born, a better, cleaner code. And a firm could be created, a new studio, that would not be controlled by the suits..

Then, that 14million would go into the 'New World' Studio and not the mistaken antics of suit-world..

And.. If other studios like Obi-Soft isnt interested, that too could be an incredible blessing.. Remember, all these guys that started Apple, MS, and alot of these game studios, they started up in garages, holes in the wall, small biz suites... They lived on snacks and Mountain Dew for a year or two.. Look at them now, millionaires.. You might have to starve, but what you sew, you reap; what you invest, you will get back... What you put into your own work, the investment, will yeild it back to you many fold..




Bill

 

[Gibbage]

Either outsource development to a competent team or assemble a new one including some of the old dogs from ACES.

Sorry. I take this comment a little personally. I have never seen a more competent team ever in my life. A LOT of the people there had there pilots license and 10-25 years of experience. I dont know how more competent you could get for a flight sim team.

 

[bkeske]

With the advent and popularity of X-Box (and such), and the demise of PC 'Gaming'/simulations, I have to wonder if companies that have a stake in PC simulations surviving would be interested in underwriting (or helping) a new endeavor.

If you think about what companies may have an interest, obviously NVIDIA and AMD/ATI come to mind. Intel?

Just a thought.

 

[cheezyflier]

the reason pc can't compete with the gaming console is because the console only runs the game, and nothing else. naturally, you get better performance, and the initial cost is waaayy less for the consumer. the result was inevitable.

 

[crashaz]

How in the world does one find people that know how to make a flight simulator??

Sure a lot of us here know how to make models and scenery etc..... but how many people how to code physics? Code flight parameters, code weather realtime? Code reading Geographic information and create a rendered world.

Who knows how to code eye catching renders,shaders and light?!?

I am not worried about the code. It's the resources.... the people.... they have all been thrown to the winds! It would be at least 2 years (at the earliest) before someone goes shakes off the dust to think about opening the crate up... how long would it take to gather a group of people with that much experience??

Then the eventual coding may start... another 2 years down the road...

folks we may not see FS again for another 6-7 years.

Now to those of you saying that this may not be a bad thing.... why don't you open up your copy of FS2000 and fly with that.... see how you like it now.

That is what FSX will look like before we get another.

 

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

"That would be a bit funny. Google taking over MS."<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Google taking the time to develop a flight sim ..., they did ...and it’s part of Google earth ,, 3D scenery .... they did and released a free and easy to use tool to produce it , the Google earth Flight Simulation module is an XML ,, so what’s missing are aircraft models, and the flight dynamics , the photo real scenery aint half bad , it’s what i get from Tile Proxy.. <o></o>
<o></o>
Funny is that MS did not find room in their Windows Live Xbox platform for the talent the just gave the competing companies .<o></o>
Funny is that i do not need to upgrade my machine to keep up with the demands made upon it by a new sim every couple of years , i am going to save a small fortune not needing to worry about DX11 , Windows7 , yada yada yada , hell i can even try a Mac laptop next as compatibility isn’t an issue and forget about desktop computers all together since what i need to by is a console , and Wii even think about an Xbox ? the company that makes them sent them out with major problems because it was cheaper to repair the 2% of them that come back than add a bloody part to the production run ... " aligned against the companies priorities " that’s what they did all right, to the consumer base ... gobble gobble <o></o>
<o></o>

 

[fliger747]

The primary advantage of the MS series for the enthuisast is/was the ability to produce addons. Such is why in many ways CFS2 is still a fine sim!

Other platforms have attempted to keep everything close to the vest. It's an attitude, which in hardware that has kept me away from Apple.

$14,000,000 in sales for FSX? There are guys on campus there (rarefied air) that probably get a bonus bigger than that.

Cheers: T.

 

[harleyman]

Well I still think that our beloved FSX and FS9,and older ones ,are going to be just fine for quite a while...


However...... I really wanted TS2 darn it...........

 

[bismarck13]

Hmmm

$14,000,000 in sales for FSX? There are guys on campus there (rarefied air) that probably get a bonus bigger than that.

Well, that explains it completely. Considering that Halo 3 sold $300 Million in its first week, I would have to rate FSX as a dismal failure. If I was M$ I would pull the plug on it too. Consoles are where its at now. And despite what you all will say, the small number of diehard FSers at this site (and elsewhere) is really not that attractive to big outfits like Ubi-screwed and Microshaft. The biggest selling PC games on the market now are generally also console games. I looked for a new PC game for my nephew at Xmas and was surprised by the small number of titles to choose from, and there was nothing at all that would have interested me. I think the PC game industry in general is headed right down the tubes and "Aces" is just one of the casualties.

 

[CathyH]

I will be Buying VSF

VSF a vehicle simulator by The Author of Virtual Sailor is acvailable for beta download from hangsim.com. It feature palens, ships, and spaceshiop, the4r will be lots of reqasonable hobbyist freewae and paywae addons and combat mode. Not as good as FS, but with tht, FS9 ansd FSX I think we can manage, then ther4 is X-plane and that open source Flightsin (flightgera?):amen:

 

[Nick C]

Paul, this comment niggles me:

It will likely be a long road and may not look quite the same.

Sorry to start picking at comments.

 

[Ridge]

Sorry. I take this comment a little personally. I have never seen a more competent team ever in my life. A LOT of the people there had there pilots license and 10-25 years of experience. I dont know how more competent you could get for a flight sim team.

I thought the same at first, Gibbage...I dont think he is saying Aces is/was incompetent, just not to give the work to a 3rd party group that is incompetent...

 

[Bjoern]

Sorry. I take this comment a little personally. I have never seen a more competent team ever in my life. A LOT of the people there had there pilots license and 10-25 years of experience. I dont know how more competent you could get for a flight sim team.

It wasn't meant to be a hit at ACES.

That section of my quoted comment was referring to a post someone made, in which he expressed the fear that MSFS development could be outsourced to a development team in the eastern hemisphere.
I for myself think that none of the young, startup deveopment teams in that part of the earth can cope with developing a flight simulator. I'm not all against new blood in the industry, but without mentors like the guys and gals from ACES, they won't go far. Sure, they could try, but the expectations for a new civil flightsimulator are high...very high. Especially if Microsoft is the publisher...