Another FS mystery.

While I was getting my FS2002 install repaired, I noticed something that had always bugged me.
One of my "master" ARRCAB dat files listed an aircraft carrier near Guantanamo Bay (Cuba).
Years ago, I had tried to find this mystery scenery but struck out.

I've been doing some digging and I did manage to find an update kit for FS2002 but it only includes some bits and pieces.

The carrier is the USS Saratoga (CV-60) and it was uploaded for FS2K, zip file name CV602V10.ZIP.
The author is Robert Waszkiewicz, who also produced drive-able ships for FS9 and FSX.

Does anyone know why this zip file no longer exists? Better yet, does anyone have CV602V10.zip in their stash?

While simply searching at Google, you should get this here:

https://www.flightsim.com/files/file/30922-fs2000-scenery-uss-saratoga-cv60/

Bernard

OK, that's odd.
I did search with Google and all that showed up were two old FS sites with disabled download links.
I'm starting to think there's a good reason why its so tough to find.

The pitiest thing now is, that you won't be able to find the file while searching in new Flightsim.com. A real disaster.

Well, it works in FS2002.
I installed the original zip and the second update, so no deck crew or equipment (??) but otherwise everything is stable.
Note the Lat and Lon, its just south of Gitmo. Detail is pretty good considering it was made for FS2000. I landed a DSB Goshawk and Arrcab worked with no issues, my frame rate held steady at 60 FPS.

For FS9, I'd really think twice about installing it. ALL of the textures are .r8 format and you'd need to create a basic AFCAD so it shows up in the Airports menu.




Just a quick update if you'd like to try this in FS2002.
You ONLY need the source zip and the second (FS2002) update. Don't bother with the first update, it doesn't work.
So, unzip cv602v10.zip to your desktop and extract the "saratoga" main folder. Don't install anything yet.
Unzip or extract the BGL files in cv602v12.zip and drop them into the saratoga scenery folder (overwrite the old BGLs).

NOW, install the saratoga folder into ADDON SCENERY.
Manually edit your main scenery.cfg file (use only NOTEPAD). Add the following:

[Area.XXX]
Title=saratoga
Local=ADDON SCENERY\saratoga
Remote=
Active=TRUE
Required=FALSE
Layer=XXX

Where XXX is the last numbered entry plus one then SAVE.
The LAYER NUMBER shouldn't matter, play around with this at your own risk.

Last, you'll need to update your ARRCAB dat file.
Open ArrestorCables.dat using NOTEPAD.
Check if you already have an entry for the Saratoga, otherwise add:

[ZoneXX]
CarrierIdent=FS2000 Saratoga v1.2 Guantanamo
FrontRightCornerLat = 19.853
FrontRightCornerLon = -75.19516667
FrontLeftCornerLat = 19.85333333
FrontLeftCornerLon = -75.19516667
BackLeftCornerLat = 19.85316667
BackLeftCornerLon = -75.1955
BackRightCornerLat = 19.853
BackRightCornerLon = -75.1955
DeckAltInFeet = 93.2
CableCatchZoneHeightInFeet = 2.4
RunwayHeadingInDegreesMag = 086

Where XX is the next entry in your dat file and then SAVE.

IN FS2002, you can find the Sara by opening the Go To Airport menu and clicking the "older scenery" button.
Click on "carrier" and you'll wind up on the deck.

IN FS9, I haven't tried it yet. I'm pretty sure something will show up with a hard deck just south of Gitmo. You're on your own, I'm not planning to install it in FS9.

OK, so some of you have gotten to know me and I just posted that I had no intention to install this thing in FS9.

I installed it in FS9.
I mean, I spent years off and on trying to find this scenery and it works great in FS2002. It would have been a crime not to try it in FS9.
And, its kinda glorious for what it is. The .r8 textures look pretty good, better than in FS2002.
The hard deck? Well, in FS9 its what I would call "semi hard". It starts out fine but over time it gets a little funky, like the deck is rusty and starting to give way. The good news is that it doesn't need a flatten. The ARRCAB numbers hold up for both traps and cat shots, if there was a flatten issue I wouldn't be able to keep doing landings and take offs using ARRCAB. The bad news is that the deck stuff might be some kind of memory leak, but I don't think it is.
So, it needs an AFCAD bgl, anyway. I think I can get away with adding an airport perimeter and runway 1/10th of a foot below the deck then add the tower and ground comms plus an ILS, VOR, and NDB as well as a way to get on deck without taking off from Gitmo (MUGM). That could also mean adding some AI traffic, just to show off.

At worst, it makes for a nice static object to look/aim at .

Let me play around with it. If it works, I'll post the additions here.

One quick update for this carrier is the carrnavs.zip download by Doug Horton from 2002.
Doug came up with ILS, VOR, and NDB transmitters for almost all of the stock carrier decks in FS2002 plus the Sara. and the USS Stennis, somewhere wayy west of California.
Since posting links on where to find this download has become a bit of a pain , I'll post the file here.

For FS2002, all I did was drop the BGL files into my ADDON SCENERY>SCENERY folder then re-start the sim.
Easy peasey and they work just fine. These are bare-bones nav radio BGLs so you don't get GO TO Menu support, BUT they work fine and do what they say. They make it much easier to find these locations.

I used the BGL for the Gitmo Saratoga in FS9. I still want to make a full FS9 AFCAD BGL for this scenery, but at least having the nav radios makes life easier. Just drop the CV60NAV.BGL from carrnavs.zip into your scenery folder inside the main saratoga folder. BTW, one thing I did notice in FS9 is that you'll also find the Sara if you click the Search Older Scenery button on the main Search Scenery menu.

Which brings up one last question..
Would you folks like it if I started a general Modern Air Craft Carrier thread in this forum? Everything from how to take off and land, to where to find the good stuff (scenery and planes) for FS2002 and FS9 and how to install it. Also stuff like how to properly use an AOA indexer/indicator and the basic "nuts and bolts" of carrier landings and hold patterns. I got into carrier stuff about ten year's ago and its still a challenge plus a LOT of fun.

"Would you folks like it if I started a general Modern Air Craft Carrier thread in this forum?"

MY reaction is: yes, but why only MODERN AC's?

hertzie

Because its not like that thread would be "three posts and done".
There's a lot of info to cover, everything from scenery/BGL layers to finding the right gauges to tweaking aircraft while you "get in the groove" and really learn how to fly them.
Besides, the CFS folks know the early carrier stuff a lot better than I do.
I'm hoping I wouldn't be the only contributor.

Well, one last update and this is the kind that I hate to post:

DO NOT INSTALL THE SARATOGA SCENERY IN FS2004/FS9.

I had a feeling early in this thread that it wouldn't work in FS9 and I should have listened to me.
The "spongy flight deck" issue kept getting worse and then I noticed that Win10 was having problems with icons on the desktop re-appearing after I had moved them into a folder or deleted them. The BGL files all tested GOOD in terms of virus and malware so I'm thinking this was one of those old school issues of hex edited files gone bad. Everything in Win10 is back to normal after I erased the scenery from my scenery.cfg file and deleted the saratoga folder.

There don't appear to be any issues with the same install in FS2002. Still, I'm keeping an eye on it.

The carriernavs.zip BGL files are fine but there's no reason to install them in FS9.

Sorry if any of you had similar issues with this scenery in FS9.

Meanwhile,

Earlier, I mentioned the USS Stennis (CVN-74) that was stationed well off the coast of California.
This scenery was designed and uploaded by Javier Fernandez (CVN74JF.ZIP) for FS2000 and its one of the O.G. FS carrier sceneries that was later updated for the Transload carriers scenery for FS2002 and the excellent Carriers2006 scenery package for FS9.
I really liked the location where Javier placed this scenery. CVN's are creatures of the deep ocean and one of my pet peeves is carrier scenery placed five miles from a large airport or on a lake. Flying to the Stennis from NAS Miramar or NAS LeMoore in a fighter like the F-14 or F/A-18 is a bit of a long shot if you enjoy bending the throttles (unless you plan to do some in-flight refueling), but its a great location for pre-deployment training or as a spot to start flight ops at the start of a WESTPAC deployment.

So, I wanted to at least try installing the FS2000 Stennis in FS9 to see what would happen. Trying to find the zip file on-line was frustrating so I dove into my Downloads folder and found it. All I did was rename the main Stennis folder to Stennis2K and dropped it into my ADDON SCENERY folder then updated my scenery.cfg file and my ARRCAB dat file (its the same location as it is in FS2002). Early test flights (so far) are promising but I'm still wary from my Saratoga experiment in FS9. I'll post more on how to install this scenery plus any update files once I'm sure that it plays nice with FS9 and Windows.

There are some teething problems. As I mentioned, its doing fine in FS9 so far and Windows isn't acting odd. However, once you click the Use Older Scenery option in FS9's Go To menu and select Stennis you'll find yourself about 100 feet above the flight deck and you'll drop like a stone unless you start at another location and get the engines running and the flaps fully down. This scenery really needs a "from scratch" AFCAD file, especially if you want to add some AI traffic and a more conventional start location and comms. The textures, especially the flight deck, could also use an update. This part shouldn't be too hard if you already have Carriers 2006 installed.

Thinks are moving along nicely with the deep-sea USS Stennis.

I really like the location of this carrier, its located about 150 nautical miles west of Miramar and LeMoore.
I was able to delete the "update" BGL from carriernavs.zip and I built up an AF2 AFCAD that includes the Carriers2006 "standard" ILS, NDB and VOR. I'll also be adding some traffic AI for the deck and the pattern. Its now listed and shows up in the regular Airports menu as "CV74" and "USS Stennis (CVN-74) EASTPAC" plus you now wind up on the flight deck instead of down in the bilges. I went with the airport identifier of "CV74" so it won't conflict with any other air craft carrier scenery.

Location- N 34 58.41, W123 06.53
ILS- 110.30/ course 337, working "Meatball".
VOR- 108.40 (long range, about 80 miles).
NDB- 374.0 (also long range, about 150-ish miles)

Data from CollectAirports.exe (found in Traffic Tools) is:

CV74,N34* 58.41',W123* 6.53',62

Note the deck alt. in red.
ARRCAB works fine with a deck alt. of 65 feet, so I'm not sure if the 62 feet is left over from FS2000?
Adding the AFCAD BGL resulted in a "flooded deck" instead of the normal "floating deck" so I also had to create a flatten BGL which them led to a "layering" hassle of where the BGLs need to be located. When I finally upload this package , MAKE SURE to follow the instructions in the README file. I considered just posting links of where to find the original FS2000 scenery and the FS2002 update kit, HOWEVER this would just make things too complicated so I'll credit everyone and include everything except the AI traffic in the upload. Install is pretty painless and will take about one or two minutes before you can do a cat shot off the deck.

So, what's left to do? I need to add the parking spots and taxi lines for the AI plus a traffic BGL and some final tweaks and testing. The Meatball works but I need to get it to follow the ILS glideslope a little better. I've done day and night launches and landings with no issues (night landings are always a hoot).

At the end of the day, I wanted to preserve and update this scenery due to its location. Its a perfect spot for a pre-deployment work-up or the first/final stop on a full WESTPAC deployment to Asia and even the Indian Ocean or Gulf of Hormuz.

..and ahhhhhh..... dookie.

Everything looked good with the AFCAD until I added the AI traffic...which was hopelessly stuck about two to three feet under the hard deck. They taxi just fine, they take off, they land, but they just AIN'T right.

With the AFCAD and flatten BGLs something else was going on that I didn't notice at first. The carrier was sitting in a "backwards" bubble, imagine a shallow hole in the ocean.

So, its kind of back to square-one. I tried to layer the flatten and AFCAD BGLs based on the way its done in the Carriers2006/Transload packages for FS9. Make FS9 load the AFCAD first (I placed it in the ADDON SCENERY/scenery folder) then the FLATTEN bgl (I placed that one in with the separate Carriers2006 Flatten/scenery folder) then the main STENNIS 3DO folder.

So, I've got three options-

-Leave it alone and call it Good. The shallow bubble stuff really isn't noticeable if you're doing take offs and landings in a fighter. The AI are all in Low Rider mode until they take off. Or, 'can the AI and ignore the problem. I spent about two hours making the AFCAD and flatten bgls and I really don't want to trash them.

- Do it the hard way. Keep the stuff I've already done then trash the FS2000 bgls and replace the carrier 3DO with something newer using BGLCOMP (create a new 3DO via a HTML file and dump that into BGLCOMP to create the new 3DO bgl).

- Trash everything I've done so far and leave the scenery as land-able but dumb. The CARRIERNAVS bgls only add navaids, ILS and NDB. My current AFCAD adds ILS/VOR/NDB, AI parking, Tower and Ground comms, the Meatball, and I get placed on the hard deck instead of the bilge.

If you were looking forward to the download, sorry about that. I don't want to start a README file with "You may notice some things are REALLY messed up". I'll keep working on it, though. It might just be a scenery layering problem, but I doubt it.