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3D Finally !!???

Javis

Javis

SOH Staff
Staff member
Look what advert i got in my mailbox this morning :

http://www.simw.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_product_details&pid=2283

For the time being i'm keeping reservations for this to finally be the utmost gadget i've been waiting for ever since flight simulation became possible on a PC. For this to really work to great satisfaction it would be THE single most important upgrade to our flightsimming experience, wouldn't it. It would turn our beloved virtual blue yonder literally upside down ! To me, it seems too good to be true.... ( i'm not that much of an optimist....:blind: )

Just imagine if it *would* work ..... The difference would be even more than upgrading from FS4 to FSX at one go ! The immersion effect would be scaled up 100%. No FSXI or even FSXII could ever match the difference we are bound to see if finally we can experience virtually flying in a 3D environment if this thing will really work....

FSX is on the 'Excellent' rating list of 3D Vision support. FS9 seems not to be supported at all.

We have a saying overhere which goes something like ' making someone happy with a dead sparrow', i'm keeping my fingers crossed this isn't going to be the label we can stick onto this 'next generation' 3D glasses iteration. Can't help thinking there must be a catch, a snake in the grass, a snag... :toilet: :173go1:

Can't help being extremely exited about this too ! :isadizzy:

Cannot test it myself yet ( works only with Vista en Windows7, i still have XP ), would've bought it even if it would've cost a multitude of the price (139 Euro) because it wil bring our PC flightsimulation experience as close to the real thing as ever possible ! IF IT WILL WORK !!

So what do you guys think about it ??

Anyone willing and able to give it a go ???...... :jump:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Hey Javis
Shutter glasses have been around for years,Ive got a set here with a dedicated tnt video card which I picked up a few years ago on fleabay.Im going to use em to build an old skool system for my 3dfx voodoo2 cards in SLI (hmmm there another one nividia reinvented :D ) .Im sure they have improved over the years but for gaming they just kill FPS to much for sims like FSX.Movies look great though,if you dont watch for to long, the eyes become tired after 20 min from the flicker.
Wozza
 
I use these NVidia glasses with FSX and enjoy them a great deal. There are naturally limitations. The comments below are based on my system, so some things could vary.

They do not work with DX10 preview, nor light bloom turned on.
FSX effects (lights notably) are rendered in 2D, not through DirectX. This makes them show up strangely. Night landings will make your eyes hurt if you keep the 3D enabled on final. 3D can be toggled quickly. Smoke, steam, spray, dirt and other airplane effects are similarly an issue.
The 3D system does steal a great deal of power. I have to pull back on settings to use them (especially in dense areas like cities). An NVidia 8800 GTS 512 is the minimal card for using these (which is what I have).
Because they are shutter glasses everything become a bit dark.
The system only works on a single monitor. Second monitors can still be used, but there will be no 3D. I do this.
Headaches are no longer an issue. The system requires fast monitors (only two exist that I am aware of, though many new TVs meet the spec). The higher rate does not bother eyes like old systems did. Again, I note this is my experience and other people might have a reaction.

Even with the limitations I love these. The experience of flying Dino's Goshawk onto a carrier in 3D is great (his detailed cockpits are a good showcase of the technology). The biggest problem now is the cost considering only expensive monitors may be used.
 
The Nvidia drivers also support an anaglyph mode if you just want to mess around and don't have a 120hz monitor or shutters, but it's still very cool even with the cheap red/blue glasses. 'Scuse the huge image, but I don't have a smaller one on the server right now.

Jon
Vertical Reality Simulations

3Dpit.jpg
 
Wozza said:
Hey Javis
Shutter glasses have been around for years,Ive got a set here with a dedicated tnt video card which I picked up a few years ago on fleabay.Im going to use em to build an old skool system for my 3dfx voodoo2 cards in SLI (hmmm there another one nividia reinvented :D ) .Im sure they have improved over the years but for gaming they just kill FPS to much for sims like FSX.Movies look great though,if you dont watch for to long, the eyes become tired after 20 min from the flicker.
Wozza
Click to expand...

Heya Wozza,

Yes i know they have been around for years and even before those came around i got a glimpse of what 3D *might* mean for us flightsimmers with Simon Hradecky's '3DAGS' ( red/green ). While very rudimentary the 3D effect already was a stunning experience. And yes i've heard about the fps killing, headaches and tired eyes of these first shutter glasses, that's why i never bothered to try them and that's what i mean with the snatches, snags and snakes in the grass...

The question is dare we imagine these growing pains might have been taken care of with this latest nVidia offering.. ? :kilroy:
 
mfitch said:
I use these NVidia glasses with FSX and enjoy them a great deal. There are naturally limitations. The comments below are based on my system, so some things could vary.
Click to expand...

Thanks much for your report, Mfitch ! :salute:

Didn't know this thing was around already for a year or so.... I have never heard anything about it.... i wonder why that is..... :confused:

The 3D system does steal a great deal of power. I have to pull back on settings to use them (especially in dense areas like cities)
Click to expand...

Ahh...yes.... right there were 3D could/should really shine....

Does this mean you only use 3D occasionally ?.... After flying in a 3D environment, doesn't normal 2D loose all of its attraction/immersion ??....

Because they are shutter glasses everything become a bit dark.
Click to expand...

Ok! I suppose you only use the VC to fly in 3D. Can you still read your instruments because of this darker display ? Does one VC work better than another regarding clearness/readability ?...

Headaches are no longer an issue. The system requires fast monitors (only two exist that I am aware of, though many new TVs meet the spec). The higher rate does not bother eyes like old systems did. Again, I note this is my experience and other people might have a reaction.
Click to expand...

What monitor do you use ?...

Even with the limitations I love these. The experience of flying Dino's Goshawk onto a carrier in 3D is great (his detailed cockpits are a good showcase of the technology). The biggest problem now is the cost considering only expensive monitors may be used.
Click to expand...

It seems there might be a bundle to pick up for some $500 which includes a 22" Samsung Syncmaster 3D Gaming LCD monitor.....

What i am wondering about, can you still normally view/handle your keyboard, or does everything around your monitor become a dark blurr while wearing those glasses ?

Thanks again for your report ! :cool:

cheers,
jan
 
I used two photographs from slightly different positions to make this 3D image of some Moldavite. Simply cross your eyes until you see three images, and focus on the middle one. Once your brain merges the two separate images you will see a true 3D image. Takes some practice but once you're locked it's quite cool to focus in on the details, like up near the top.

3D_medium.jpg
 
Hi Mate
Ive was given a pair of these
http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_vr920.html
been playing with em for a few weeks now and like them,No eye strain
inbuilt head tracking (not as good as trackIR) if the resolution was higher they be awesome but the higher res ones in the mega $$$
The 3d is good in games (the purpose built demos are stunning) but still suffers from FPS hit.Then again Im using legacy drives for 3d as I have an older vid card,as Nividia are pushing the shutter glasses hopefully the drivers will get a bit of a boost.With a modern system I dont think the fps would be to big an issue,all I need now is a glove thats a mouse/button so I can move my hand to operate the vc switches and get my trakIR working rather than the inbuilt tracking :D Its so cool not having to look out the side of your head to see the screen lol
Wozza
 
To get an impression about the look and feel of real 3D cockpits you might want to apply the technique SolarEagle described by watching this little Youtube clip :mixedsmi: (I'm not allowd to post a link, so you have to search for uM4pJEQX7PY on YouTube)

Right below the clip you should select Cross-eyed view to watch it without the loss of colors.

Regards, Andreas
 
Javis said:
Does this mean you only use 3D occasionally ?.... After flying in a 3D environment, doesn't normal 2D loose all of its attraction/immersion ??....
Click to expand...

I switch as needed (scenery or planes that don't work well, landing at night).

Javis said:
Ok! I suppose you only use the VC to fly in 3D. Can you still read your instruments because of this darker display ? Does one VC work better than another regarding clearness/readability ?...
Click to expand...

Yes, I only use VC mode for all planes. Some are definitely better than others due to the imperfections of the 3D. There is some crossover--seeing both images at once--under certain lighting conditions in the sim. This effect is greatest toward the edges of the screen.


Javis said:
What monitor do you use ?...
Click to expand...

I have the Samsung (all my monitors for some time have been Samsung).

Javis said:
What i am wondering about, can you still normally view/handle your keyboard, or does everything around your monitor become a dark blurr while wearing those glasses ?
Click to expand...

I do not have any trouble viewing other objects, but individual eyesight, room lighting, and other factors may be important. Note that I use a Saitek yoke with extra throttle quadrant or a Saitek X45 with extra throttle quadrant plus the Saitek switch box for flying. The number of buttons on these is enough to reduce my need to hit keys to a minimum.

Getting a good deal is important I think. The 3D is nifty, but it is not perfect. In the long run the monitors built into glasses approach (which is what the vuzix does) is probably the best technology. However, as pointed out by Wozza the resolution is quite low and the cost quite high. This should shrink rapidly if people start buying, because the technology has leapt forward since Vuzix products were developed. I'm still hoping for better things.
 
Thanks a lot again for clearing things up, mfitch! :salute:

So we're not really there yet, huh....

For me it would probabely mean buying a new system plus new monitor next to the NVidia 3D Vision package. If that would've ment perfect 3D flying right away i'd go for it instantly but regarding your comments i think i keep on puttering along in boring 2D a while longer..... :sleep:

Maybe Wozza's Vuzix gadget IS a better option to go for ....

@Wozza : thanks mate ! :cool:

Say, isn't it like this VR920 test was done in 2007 already? Could this mean a newer, better version has emersed by now maybe ??....

If i buy the VR920 will it work alright with a Geforce 8800GTX you think.... ? ( still have XP )

Thanks again for the 3D enlightment, gents ! :salute:

( i still remember the first ( and last ! ) 3D test broadcast on TV in my country. A.o. a fire department ladder was extended right into the room ! We all ducked !! :eek:

That's about 40 years ago now...... :frown: )
 
Variometer said:
To get an impression about the look and feel of real 3D cockpits you might want to apply the technique SolarEagle described by watching this little Youtube clip :mixedsmi: (I'm not allowd to post a link, so you have to search for uM4pJEQX7PY on YouTube)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Andreas! Still have a pair of 3D glasses here but they do not work with any of the givin variants. Drat !

The clip looks great ! Many years ago i managed this crossed-eye technique to view something in 3D but it seems i've lost my license somewhere in time.... Clip looks tempting enough to get practising again ! :icon_eek: :)

cheers,
jan
 
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