A Question About the Lafayette Escadrille Plane Skins

[RAF_Louvert]

Salute All,

I have been flying a bit with the Lafayette Escadrille and I have noticed the plane skins seem to be a hodge podge of different colors and emblems rather than the indian chief logo I am used to seeing. Is there an historical reason for this or do I have a setting I need to change? I have flown both the N11's and N16's with them at this point, and have seen a crescent moon and a heart emblem as well as large painted numbers, but nothing that looks like what I have seen in my readings on the Esc 124. Thoughts on this? Thanks.

Lou

 

[rabu]

Are you sure you weren't watching the movie, Flyboys?
Actually, there were several different markings over the years and used by different aces, a Star, Cresent moon, Lufberrys initials, Hall's "Bert", Nungesser's Skull, etc.

 

[Doughboy]

S! Sir Lou,
Might and Main!

I have never survived long enough to see it either. But in QM it dose show up in Jan of 18, prehaps it apears after the yanks join the fray.

Good to see ya mate!

S!

 

[RAF_Louvert]

LOL rabu! OK, my bad Sir. I was thinking the indian head emblem came into general use earlier than it did as it was the Escadrille Americaine beginning in April of 1916. I was aware of the various aces personal paint schemes but did not realize that the entire escadrille carried the crescent and heart emblems early on. I thought the famous Native American icon was used on their planes shortly after the 124 formed. As you can see, I have no problem showing my ignorance.

And Doughboy! How have you been Sir? Haven't seen you since the great RAF invasion of Fifi's Cabaret. I notice you are still making good use of that spiffy avatar I made for you.

Lou

 

[rabu]

LOL rabu! OK, my bad Sir. I was thinking the indian head emblem came into general use earlier than it did as it was the Escadrille Americaine beginning in April of 1916. I was aware of the various aces personal paint schemes but did not realize that the entire escadrille carried the crescent and heart emblems early on. I thought the famous Native American icon was used on their planes shortly after the 124 formed. As you can see, I have no problem showing my ignorance.

And Doughboy! How have you been Sir? Haven't seen you since the great RAF invasion of Fifi's Cabaret. I notice you are still making good use of that spiffy avatar I made for you.

Lou

Right you are on the April 1916 official date. Almost all members had different insignia, letters or numbers on their planes. I don't think it was until late 1916 that the Indian head showed up, I think first on Lufberry's N17, but Shredward would be the one to ask on the history of all of this. Unfortunately we can't have each plane have separate markings in the squadron all at once.

 

[RAF_Louvert]

rabu, I can fully appreciate that it would not be feasible to have a different paint scheme on every plane in the squadron, but it would be neat if we could.

Now then, about that indian insignia. As someone who likes to know what he doesn't know I went and did a bit of investigating. I had a recollection that it was William Thaw who initiated the idea of the indian head on the Esc 124 planes, but I could find no mention of it in my copy of Hall and Nordoff's "The Lafayette Flying Corps", so I went searching online and came across the following post in the Aerodrome forum by Greg VanWyngarden:

"Lufbery, thanks so much for posting those great images !! I especially like the Savage Arms logo, which was definitely the inspiration for the "Seminole" head. According to Gordon's "Lafayette Escadrille Pilot Biographies", William Thaw noticed the Savage Arms logo, and upon the men's approval, ordered escadrille mechanic Caporal Suchet to adapt the image and paint it on the sides of their Nieuports.

Yes, that is a Nieuport 17 in your posted image, but (I'm nit-picking here) that's not James Norman Hall. It's Robert Soubiran - the photo was taken at Cachy in December 1916. Gordon says that the "Seminole" head was used from Oct 1916 to April '17, then replaced with the "Sioux" head. As a fellow Iowan, I know James Norman Hall !!

I still don't know why they applied the "Seminole" name to the first insignia, as it doesn't resemble any real Seminole, IMHO."

This seems to quite nicely address the issue of the Esc 124 indian head insignia and when and how it came to be.

Lou

 

[rabu]

rabu, I can fully appreciate that it would not be feasible to have a different paint scheme on every plane in the squadron, but it would be neat if we could.

Now then, about that indian insignia. As someone who likes to know what he doesn't know I went and did a bit of investigating. I had a recollection that it was William Thaw who initiated the idea of the indian head on the Esc 124 planes, but I could find no mention of it in my copy of Hall and Nordoff's "The Lafayette Flying Corps", so I went searching online and came across the following post in the Aerodrome forum by Greg VanWyngarden:
This seems to quite nicely address the issue of the Esc 124 indian head insignia and when and how it came to be.

Lou

Good info, thanks Lou!