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A small contribution...

Rami

Rami

Administrator
Staff member
To all,

I've loved the FDGv2 Grumman F6F-5 Hellcat for some time. Going through the skins section, RobH did some beautiful skins for her to represent an F6F-3. However, no one had modified the weight and performance envelope to make her truly into one.

I'm going to post my attempt here to allow for some beta testing. If I get a thumbs-up, then I'll obtain permission and upload them permanently. To avoid any problems with turning or maneuverability, I simply lowered the propeller thrust ratio to 0.85, and in doing so it dropped the climb rate down to about 2,900 feet. The top speed is about 8 MPH too fast, but I can live with that.

For the FDGv2 F6F-5, I added about 200 pounds of weight to bring her to specifications, and adjusted the performance back slightly to reign her in just a bit, though she's still about 20 MPH fast.

All of my work is based on this aircraft: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/downloads/download.php?lloc=downloads&FileID=1458

(Or the VF-12, basically the same thing)

To install the F6F-3, simply run the a/c installer, then drop my files in, overwriting the originals. You don't need to delete the original .air and .dp files, the .cfg has been altered to run off of the mods.

For the F6F-5, no alterations are necessary, just plug 'n' play.

Here are the skins that RobH did for her, Page 1: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.p...=downloads&FileUploadName=RobH&ammm=15&pap=21

Here are the skins that RobH did for her, Page 2: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.p...=downloads&FileUploadName=RobH&ammm=15&pap=22

Have fun, guys. And PLEASE provide feedback!

P.S. - When I push forward with this, I'll adjust the text in the selection window to represent the correct performance.
 
You guys wouldn't happen to know if the clipped-wing Corsair version the British possessed had any changes to weight and performance because of the alterations, would you?
 
Thanks for the updated file Rami.

Don't know about the British Corsair. Seems like it must have lost a bit of altitude and perhaps gained a bit in roll rate. Just a guess.
 
Outstanding Hellcat - far better than stock!!

Anyone know of any FAA repaints of this jewel? Along these lines ...

url


The USN repaints by RobH are lovely, and this fix will only make it even better ....

thanks!

dl


ps: regarding the RN Corsair, Rami, yes, my Corsair books all reference an increase in roll rate, and more particularly, an increase in the landing speed - about 3-4 kts, if I recall. I can get you the exact deltas in landing speed, if you need. I'm not aware of a lowered ceiling - but that may have been the case.
 
Delta_Lima,

Once I get the final go-ahead, I'll let you guys all in on a project I've been working on. This turned into far more than than one aircraft. :d
 
Brilliant - Thanks Rohan!!!

Rami - sweet!! I'm saying that in faith - given everything else you've done, it can't but be be excellent.

If it's what I think it is ... sounds jolly good mate ... :kilroy:

dl
 
The British had clipped wings F4U Corsairs. The Hellcat was used as it was. It's wings folded against the fuselage and didn't need to be clipped to fit at lower hangars as used at Royal Navy carriers. The Corsairs FMk.1 and F.Mk2 had a higher landing speed as a collateral effect. It's interesting to know that the British used Corsairs as carrier fighters BEFORE the American...

Cheers

Pepe
 
peperez said:
... It's interesting to know that the British used Corsairs as carrier fighters BEFORE the American...
Click to expand...



Err...well, that seems to be the consensus depending on the historical source you read, but in reality it was the Americans who first deployed the "Hog" on carriers. In fact, it was the newly-formed VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" squad under Cmdr. Blackburn who first CQ'd with the Hog on the USS Charger in 2/43. They then went on to full-time deployment on the USS Bunker Hill in its shakedown cruise in '43, in spite of concerns from top brass about the Hog's carrier-worthiness. Later, the brass changed its mind again and replaced VF-17 with Hellcats of VF-18. VF-17 went ashore to Espiritu Santo for the duration and only went back aboard the Bunker Hill during November '43 to refuel and re-arm during the Battle of the Solomon Sea.

Not willing to pass on a good thing, the FAA then decided to put the Mk I and Mk II Hog's to sea with the BPF, with great results. USN brass took note of the FAA's successes with the Hog at sea and began deploying them again on carriers, using the technical improvements of the FAA in take-off and landing ops.
 
Reply...

Delta_Lima and others,

Now that I have full permission, here is what I've been working on. I've adjusted the performance of all the FDG2 fighters, including the Freeware P-47 and F6F to get them to fly as close to the numbers as possible. Two are dead-on, the Nakajima Ki-43 and the P-40e, while the Wildcat, P-36, the F4U anthology and the F4F-3 / -4 are as close as I get them.

I still have to do the Mustangs and write the readme, and the other files are undergoing beta testing.

I should mention that except for the F6F and the P-47, these files are specifically designed for the Donationware models.

Here are some screenshots of my work...
 
Particularly with the F4U megapack, the airfile and .cfg for the F4U-4 was used as the airfile for all of them. This is factually incorrect because the F4U-1 did not have WEP, and its climb rate was about 2,900 ft/min. As engine performance improved, airspeed and climb rate improved as well.

For the airfiles which were adjusted "down," (all except the Oscar and Thunderbolt) I used the engine and prop thrust numbers to dial down the performance so she'd fly "as close to the numbers" as possible. The consequence of this is that the aircraft will have more range, especially the Grumman F4F Wildcats. I'm not sure if these aircraft appear to be short on range now, but this should fix that if its a problem.

The only two aircraft that had to be adjusted "up" will see a slight decrease in range.
 
Rami, just remember to test AI reaction to your mods --- watch the AI flight in cruise, check take-off and landing performance, etc. Airwrench is mainly intended for player mods in FS world and isn't exactly an AI friendly tool for CFS2. Following hand edits are often necessary to make AW's airfiles AI compliant in CFS2.
 
bearcat241 said:
Err...well, that seems to be the consensus depending on the historical source you read, but in reality it was the Americans who first deployed the "Hog" on carriers. In fact, it was the newly-formed VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" squad under Cmdr. Blackburn who first CQ'd with the Hog on the USS Charger in 2/43. They then went on to full-time deployment on the USS Bunker Hill in its shakedown cruise in '43, in spite of concerns from top brass about the Hog's carrier-worthiness. Later, the brass changed its mind again and replaced VF-17 with Hellcats of VF-18. VF-17 went ashore to Espiritu Santo for the duration and only went back aboard the Bunker Hill during November '43 to refuel and re-arm during the Battle of the Solomon Sea.

Not willing to pass on a good thing, the FAA then decided to put the Mk I and Mk II Hog's to sea with the BPF, with great results. USN brass took note of the FAA's successes with the Hog at sea and began deploying them again on carriers, using the technical improvements of the FAA in take-off and landing ops.
Click to expand...

The confusion here is that the Corsair was cleared for Carrier operations by The Admiralty in July 1943 and by the USN in April 1944.

The first sorties flown operationally by FAA Corsairs were on 3 April 1944 as fighter cover for Fairey Barracudas against the Tirpitz in Norway.

The USN didn't begin to use it operationally until VMF-124 began flying from USS Essex on 28 December 1944.
 
A lot of that came from the blind landings from USN Corsairs. Our British cousins perfected the arc to carrier land in a counter clockwise arc so that they could see the deck the entire approach.
 
hewman100 said:
....The USN didn't begin to use it operationally until VMF-124 began flying from USS Essex on 28 December 1944.
Click to expand...


I think the key issue here is how we choose to define the word "operationally". As i've pointed out from the official Pentagon VF-17 historical records, VF-17 was using the Corsair from the Bunker Hill "operationally" -- with clearance from top USN brass -- from Feb. '43 until the summer of that year, when they were replaced by VF-18 Hellcats. During that shakedown cruise, the Bunker Hill was combat-ready in every sense owing to the low number of active fleet carriers at the time (Check her logs during that period). The "Hill" wasn't allowed an easy low-profile shakedown in the traditional sense because she was sorely needed in the Solomons action. And as we all know by now, a carrier air group ain't squat without a fighter wing, which VF-17 was for the ship at that time. So again, "operational" they were with their Corsair mounts.

Now here's the million dollar question: How could the USN deploy an operational carrier squadron into a theater of war with aircraft that are not yet operationally cleared for carrier ops from the top theater commanders? That's ridiculous!

As for the Brits getting credit for the first Corsair carrier deployments, just think of this whole matter as an official, yet half-hearted initial USN clearance followed by an early recall, which was then later reversed by a renewed clearance in '44 after the FAA worked out the carrier ops wrinkles.
 
bearcat241 said:
Now here's the million dollar question: How could the USN deploy an operational carrier squadron into a theater of war with aircraft that are not yet operationally cleared for carrier ops from the top theater commanders? That's ridiculous!
Click to expand...

I totally agree bearcat.

There is no doubt in my mind that VF-17 had the 'nod' to use the Corsair from Bunker Hill, and indeed several sources I've got state that they 'landed on' several times during November '43.

That's where the confusion lies, the Official clearance dates are the ones referred to, and the USN didn't officially operationally fly from carriers until after then.
 
Tom Blackburn's (CO of VF 17) book, "The Jolly Rogers" (VF 17) describes their carrier work up and its successful completion in 1943. As I recall, one of their biggest problems was tires. The heavy Corsair would burst tires with regularity, but the squadron mastered that and they even won a bet from the Captain of the Bunker Hill (CV 17) by not popping a tire for the duration of their cruise from the East Coast to Pacific.

Had the need for ground based fighters in the Solomons not been so critical in the latter part of 1943, they would have seen combat from the Bunker Hill. As it was, they did eventually land on the Bunker Hill during combat ops to refuel and rearm during one of the big carrier strikes on Rabaul.

By the way, VF 17 was one of the most successful as well as one of the most storied squadrons in US Navy history, yet one of the least decorated. Several descendant US Navy fighter squadrons have carried the skull and crossbones of the Jolly Rogers over the last 60 years.
 
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