Bjoern
worst developer ever
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8427628.stm
Glad no one was hurt;sounds like microburst-induced.
Glad no one was hurt;sounds like microburst-induced.
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The Staff of SOH
AA 737 overshhots runway
- Thread starter Bjoern
- Start date
H
harleyman
Guest
Just saw the news story in passing getting coffee...
b24_witchcraft
Charter Member
Glad no one was killed with few serious injuries.
Full story here - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34566869/ns/world_news-americas/
Daylight pics here
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-373522
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-373329
Full story here - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34566869/ns/world_news-americas/
Daylight pics here
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-373522
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-373329
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
update time...
The Jamaica Civil Aviation Authority (JCAA) and the United States Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), released the following statement Wednesday:
American Airlines flight 331 crash: statement from investigators
JamaicaObserver.com
Wednesday, January 06, 2010
INVESTIGATORS probing the crash of American Airlines flight 331 at Norman Manley International Airport before Christmas, today disclosed that no mechanical faults have as yet been found with the aircraft.
The Jamaica Civil Aviation Authority (JCAA) and the United States Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), released the following statement today:
The Boeing 737-823 aircraft, registration N977AN, operated by American Airlines Inc. as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 international scheduled passenger flight from Miami, Florida, to Kingston, Jamaica, originated at Miami International Airport at about 8:22 pm eastern standard time (EST) on December 22, 2009. At about 10:22 pm EST the aircraft ran off the eastern end of Runway 12 while landing at the Norman Manley International Airport (MKJP), Kingston.
Instrument Meteorological Conditions prevailed in the area and heavy rain was reported at the airport at the time of the accident. The aircraft was flying on an Instrument Flight Rules Flight Plan.
There were 154 persons on board the aircraft, including the pilot, copilot and four flight attendants. There were no fatalities, but numerous injuries were reported.
According to the Norman Manley Tower Controller, as the aircraft was approaching Jamaica the Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS) for MKJP, which relays recorded airport and weather information, was broadcasting Runway 12 as the runway designated for arrivals.
The crew contacted Jamaican Air Traffic Control and requested the Instrument Landing System (ILS) approach for Runway 12. The controller advised the crew of tailwind conditions on Runway 12 and offered them a circling approach for landing on Runway 30. The crew repeated their request for Runway 12 and were subsequently cleared to land on that runway, with the controller further advising the crew that the runway was wet. The Captain, who was the pilot flying, reported that he used the Heads Up Display (HUD) during the approach and landing.
The crew reported that after descending through the cloud cover, they made visual contact with the runway at between 1000 feet and 700 feet above ground level. According to the Flight Data Recorder (FDR), the aircraft was traveling at the Vref (landing) airspeed of 148 knots, with a groundspeed of 162 knots, i.e. with a tailwind component of 14 knots, when the wheels made initial contact at about 4,000 feet down the 8,900-foot runway. The FDR further indicated that the aircraft bounced once, then settled onto the runway; the autobrakes then engaged, and reverse thrust and the spoilers were deployed.
The crew reported that at that point they felt that the aircraft did not decelerate normally, and they subsequently applied maximum manual (pedal) braking. The FDR indicates that the aircraft decelerated normally for an autobrake 3 setting.
The FDR indicates that during the landing rollout the aircraft veered to the left of centerline and departed the end of the runway at a groundspeed of 63 knots. Examination of the crash site indicates that the aircraft then exited the runway, went through the perimeter fence, crossed a road, and came to rest on a rock-strewn beach about 175 feet beyond the departure end of Runway 12 and about 40 feet from the water line.
The aircraft’s fuselage was broken into three major pieces. The right engine, right inboard aft trailing edge flap and the right main landing gear separated from the aircraft during the accident sequence. The left winglet was almost broken off the wing.
The FDR did not indicate any anomalies or malfunctions with the operation of the brakes, spoilers or thrust reversers. The FDR indicates the rate of deceleration appears normal for a wet runway.
An evaluation of the runway surface conditions at the time of landing is in progress, to determine the effect of this on the braking forces. To this point in the investigation, no mechanical problems have been found with any aspect of the aircraft.
The ground-based navigation and landing aids were evaluated by a check aircraft after the accident, and were determined to be functioning normally.
The flight plan designated Grand Cayman as the alternate airport and the aircraft had sufficient fuel on board to reach that destination.
The aircraft was slightly below the maximum permitted landing weight when it landed in Kingston.
The wreckage of the aircraft remains under the control of the JCAA, through the NTSB, and will be shipped to the USA. There it will be kept in a secure facility and be available for further examination, until such time as it is no longer required for the investigation.
The JCAA continues its investigation of this event, and will provide additional updates as progress is made.
(Edit: my highlights added)
Rob
The Jamaica Civil Aviation Authority (JCAA) and the United States Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), released the following statement Wednesday:
American Airlines flight 331 crash: statement from investigators
JamaicaObserver.com
Wednesday, January 06, 2010
INVESTIGATORS probing the crash of American Airlines flight 331 at Norman Manley International Airport before Christmas, today disclosed that no mechanical faults have as yet been found with the aircraft.
The Jamaica Civil Aviation Authority (JCAA) and the United States Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), released the following statement today:
The Boeing 737-823 aircraft, registration N977AN, operated by American Airlines Inc. as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 international scheduled passenger flight from Miami, Florida, to Kingston, Jamaica, originated at Miami International Airport at about 8:22 pm eastern standard time (EST) on December 22, 2009. At about 10:22 pm EST the aircraft ran off the eastern end of Runway 12 while landing at the Norman Manley International Airport (MKJP), Kingston.
Instrument Meteorological Conditions prevailed in the area and heavy rain was reported at the airport at the time of the accident. The aircraft was flying on an Instrument Flight Rules Flight Plan.
There were 154 persons on board the aircraft, including the pilot, copilot and four flight attendants. There were no fatalities, but numerous injuries were reported.
According to the Norman Manley Tower Controller, as the aircraft was approaching Jamaica the Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS) for MKJP, which relays recorded airport and weather information, was broadcasting Runway 12 as the runway designated for arrivals.
The crew contacted Jamaican Air Traffic Control and requested the Instrument Landing System (ILS) approach for Runway 12. The controller advised the crew of tailwind conditions on Runway 12 and offered them a circling approach for landing on Runway 30. The crew repeated their request for Runway 12 and were subsequently cleared to land on that runway, with the controller further advising the crew that the runway was wet. The Captain, who was the pilot flying, reported that he used the Heads Up Display (HUD) during the approach and landing.
The crew reported that after descending through the cloud cover, they made visual contact with the runway at between 1000 feet and 700 feet above ground level. According to the Flight Data Recorder (FDR), the aircraft was traveling at the Vref (landing) airspeed of 148 knots, with a groundspeed of 162 knots, i.e. with a tailwind component of 14 knots, when the wheels made initial contact at about 4,000 feet down the 8,900-foot runway. The FDR further indicated that the aircraft bounced once, then settled onto the runway; the autobrakes then engaged, and reverse thrust and the spoilers were deployed.
The crew reported that at that point they felt that the aircraft did not decelerate normally, and they subsequently applied maximum manual (pedal) braking. The FDR indicates that the aircraft decelerated normally for an autobrake 3 setting.
The FDR indicates that during the landing rollout the aircraft veered to the left of centerline and departed the end of the runway at a groundspeed of 63 knots. Examination of the crash site indicates that the aircraft then exited the runway, went through the perimeter fence, crossed a road, and came to rest on a rock-strewn beach about 175 feet beyond the departure end of Runway 12 and about 40 feet from the water line.
The aircraft’s fuselage was broken into three major pieces. The right engine, right inboard aft trailing edge flap and the right main landing gear separated from the aircraft during the accident sequence. The left winglet was almost broken off the wing.
The FDR did not indicate any anomalies or malfunctions with the operation of the brakes, spoilers or thrust reversers. The FDR indicates the rate of deceleration appears normal for a wet runway.
An evaluation of the runway surface conditions at the time of landing is in progress, to determine the effect of this on the braking forces. To this point in the investigation, no mechanical problems have been found with any aspect of the aircraft.
The ground-based navigation and landing aids were evaluated by a check aircraft after the accident, and were determined to be functioning normally.
The flight plan designated Grand Cayman as the alternate airport and the aircraft had sufficient fuel on board to reach that destination.
The aircraft was slightly below the maximum permitted landing weight when it landed in Kingston.
The wreckage of the aircraft remains under the control of the JCAA, through the NTSB, and will be shipped to the USA. There it will be kept in a secure facility and be available for further examination, until such time as it is no longer required for the investigation.
The JCAA continues its investigation of this event, and will provide additional updates as progress is made.
(Edit: my highlights added)
Rob
HundertzehnGustav
Charter Member
Woah i would never have landed on Rwy12 if i knew that on the other end , there is nothing but water...
not with a tailwind and a lot of rain!
close call! Yikes!
not with a tailwind and a lot of rain!
close call! Yikes!
Z-claudius24
Banned
Hi,
Why land in the middle of the runway lenght .. when you know it's tailwind and wet surface ?
:isadizzy:
Why land in the middle of the runway lenght .. when you know it's tailwind and wet surface ?
HundertzehnGustav
Charter Member
http://www.b737.org.uk/pilotnotes.htm
(normal landing distance calculator for 737/400/500)
4.900 feet they Had, and by the Landing distance Calculator excel sheet,
50 tons,
30 flaps
elevation 200ft
*good* braking action -> wet runway?
Tail wind 10 ( there is not even a provision for -14kts????)
the result is about 2.201 meters on full thrust reverse, autobrake 3 setting.
1 meter = 3.281 feet, 2200 meters = 7218.2 feet
they had 4.900
LOL?
(normal landing distance calculator for 737/400/500)
4.900 feet they Had, and by the Landing distance Calculator excel sheet,
50 tons,
30 flaps
elevation 200ft
*good* braking action -> wet runway?
Tail wind 10 ( there is not even a provision for -14kts????)
the result is about 2.201 meters on full thrust reverse, autobrake 3 setting.
1 meter = 3.281 feet, 2200 meters = 7218.2 feet
they had 4.900
LOL?
HundertzehnGustav
Charter Member
even at 40 tons, flaps 40, zero elevation, full reverse, 10kts tail, good braking action, the plane would have needed 4.600 feet.
Now that is a training sheet only, and an 800 series is different from a 500...
still...
looks to me like that Guy screwed up.
I just hope that Nobody will suffer life-long health problems or handicaps.
Now that is a training sheet only, and an 800 series is different from a 500...
still...
looks to me like that Guy screwed up.
I just hope that Nobody will suffer life-long health problems or handicaps.
http://www.b737.org.uk/pilotnotes.htm
(normal landing distance calculator for 737/400/500)
4.900 feet they Had, and by the Landing distance Calculator excel sheet,
50 tons,
30 flaps
elevation 200ft
*good* braking action -> wet runway?
Tail wind 10 ( there is not even a provision for -14kts????)
the result is about 2.201 meters on full thrust reverse, autobrake 3 setting.
1 meter = 3.281 feet, 2200 meters = 7218.2 feet
they had 4.900
LOL?
Time to deploy the anchor...ouch.
HundertzehnGustav
Charter Member
Hold on...
so i ll give them all the advantages i can on that 4.900 feet Runway.
from 50 feet altitude (1000 feet before touchdown)
40 tons
40 Flaps
Vref+10
Tailwind 10
2x Thrust reverse
Dry Runway
Level 0 flat rwy etc
Autobrake 3 = 3536 feet
from screeching tire to stop = 3536-1000 = 2536 feet
that would sound okay, wouldnt it...
Lets say they had "good braking action" (wet runway)
40 tons
40 Flaps
Vref+10
Tailwind 10
2x Thrust reverse
"good braking action"
Level 0 flat rwy etc
Autobrake 3 = 4856 feet
from screeching tire to stop = 4856-1000 = 3856 feet
that would Still sound okay, wouldnt it...Let's Try with "Medium" baraking action
5924-1000=4924
Oh. interestinglanding
Or with Poor braking action?
7474-1000= 6474 feetNow that sounds interesting...
Still, this is a inofficial Training sheet for the -400 series, and i dont know the other factors like Weight and Flap settings...But it gives an idea of the needed distances...
And i wonder if the Pilot had a 40-ton plane on Full Flaps anyway...
Not a Job for me - you screw up, people get killed. Yikes. Respect to all those A-380 Pilots out there - or to any damn Tubeliner out there!
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
Although there are some significant differences, there are some interesting parallels in the AF358 Airbus accident in Toronto. (wet runway, tailwind component on final, no apparent discussion of a go-around)
It's a long read (152 pages) but most of the worthwhile stuff can be found from pg 112 onward
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2005/a05h0002/a05h0002.pdf
The FDR replay video of that one has been posted on YouTube. (disregard the usual comments)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEoYvbZy1AU
It's a long read (152 pages) but most of the worthwhile stuff can be found from pg 112 onward
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2005/a05h0002/a05h0002.pdf
The FDR replay video of that one has been posted on YouTube. (disregard the usual comments)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEoYvbZy1AU
Bjoern
worst developer ever
Not a Job for me - you screw up, people get killed. Yikes. Respect to all those A-380 Pilots out there - or to any damn Tubeliner out there!
I'd do it any day. You can't get more professional than being a tubeliner pilot. Responsibility over at least a few dozen lives *and* a few dozen millions of Dollars...you'll be grateful for every second of boredom you can get. And no two flights are the same.
And regarding Air France 358:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?do...=miracle+escape&hl=de&dur=3&client=firefox-a#
(Air Crahs Investigation)