Abacus FS Design Studio

I am in no way a modeler but it could be said that GMAX is ahead of FSDS and is the better program.

On top of both of them is 3DS Max.

GMAX has the advantage of being Free also.

That having been said Milton Shupe's work is all in FSDS and clearly he is a master at it.

Which shows that really its the passion for what you do and the striving to always go one step beyond where you were last that matters.

If you are torn on which to use I would start with GMAX there are many tutorials.

I believe that or own Bill (LH) work is all in GMAX.

I know that the way too long MIA Gnoopey's work was all in GMAX.
 
From talking to people who have used both, FSDS is easier to use for someone starting out as Gmax has a steep learning curve. But supposedly once you get the hang of Gmax, it's more capable than FSDS.

Also dcc's P-38s were made with FSDS.
 
Hi Pete.

I think that the ease of FSDS as compared to gmax is a bit overstated. Both programmes will give you outstanding results, but both have a steep learning curve. I prefer the max tools, others may disagree.

BTW, Milton uses gmax ;)

Best wishes
Steve P
 
I use both - FSDS for my AI aircraft, and GMAX for the flyable ones. I like parts of both, and hate other parts of both...
 
From an FSDS user

I am a total newbie in aircraft design. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is FSDS 3.5 is very well documented and one can learn to make a decent aircraft with VC. GMAX i don't know, but will learn it one day.

FSDS comes with great tutorials and Adam Howe has an excellent blog with tutorials.

The big part that one misses is FSDS is only limited by the modeler's imagination. If you have a powerful imagination, you can make amazing airplanes and VC with FSDS.

For example, just look at Abacus' payware constellation (L-749). What a beautiful machine with such a nice VC in both FS9 and FSX! If a person can build that in FSDS, I'm sure other beautiful airplanes and helicopters can be made.

Good luck, and let us know what program you selected.
Sid
 
I think Willy put it well.

One is very easy, quick to learn, but only has so many tools. The other has a zillion tools, most of which you will never use, and is difficult at first to learn as people are 'blinded' by all the buttons (would mesmerized be the correct word? or trauma perhaps... :d ). But all in all, you have to learn on one of them, so might as well make a choice.

There are tons of tutorials out now for using Gmax. Gmax is essentially an old 3DS Max program, from many years ago, turned into a freeware version. (Actual 3DS Max today is about $4,500.00 for the latest Edition, and almost (almost) looks the same as the older Gmax).

The name Gmax stands for 'Gaming Max', hence the G.

I had to switch out to Gmax from FSDS to make better window lines. My shapes became more fluid and I need to work in speed and Gmax offers tools that enable this, like cutting and manipulating Edges and Polygons. Mind you the new FSDS (thats what we call it), probably has some new tools now that I didnt know about way back then.



My advice is go directly to Gmax. First, its free. Second, its more like standard 3D design engines. You can then more easily move up to Max if you get into this big time. If you do, find the tutorial called 'Idiots Guide to Gmax'. its brilliant and helped me massively. Also, hang out in the FreeFlightDesign.com forums for help if you have questions, as well as here.

Now, if you are doing this just to tinker and make little gadgets and scenery, etc, then FSDS is for you. It is simple, clear, basic, and very easy. Basically Gmax has the same identicle 'base tools' that FSDS has, but you need to learn where they are (all those shiny buttons... where is the right one???). Once you learn in Gmax where the buttons are (pathways), you are off like a lightning bolt and making fluid shapes is easier then ever...


Thats my humble 2 cents..


Bill
 
I have both
cannot do didly with either
i guess one must have a talent for design to make
anything
its like coloring by numbers some people do a great job
others look like garbage:icon_lol:
its not the tools but who's behind them
that works
H
 
Thanks for all your input :applause:

Looks like Gmax wins out ....... I've had it installed for ages, just never got my head around it :icon_lol:

I've told my mate Sid I'm going to make a hangar before years end .... :isadizzy:

Best I find a descent tutorial 'Gmax for Dummies' :icon_lol:

Pete.
 
look for milton shupe's tutorials, they are on his website and links are posted in the design forum here.

Also look out for Hugh Shoult's Stupid Idiots' Guide to Gmax.

M
 
Hey Pete,

You should do the Gmax built in tutorials first, (again, just some humble advice). First though... there are two rules you MUST apply to the Gmax tutorial that comes with it.

1. Do the tutorial levels in order. Each level has tools that will be introduced and will be needed in the next level of the tutorial. If you jump to level 4 from 1, you will miss how to find and use the tools for levels 2, 3, and 4, leaving you lost. You 'must' do them in order.

2. Before leaving a level, you should be able to do these levels by memory. This means, closing out the tutorial, and repeatedly doing the level (making parts, effecting them, animating them) over and over with precision, finding the buttons on the toolbar to do this.

To add to rule 2, you should try these tools on other shapes of objects. One of the ways you learn how Gmax works is by exploration and experimentation. So much will be found by 'I wonder what this button does?' moments... Just 2 days ago, I was blessed with 2 more amazing techniques that enabled me to create door skin edges and cutting out parts on a painted surface without any degradation to the texture mapping. I have been doing this for over 10 years and only just found these things out.

Have fun. This is the main thing. Dont go too fast. If you do, you will get frustrated. In learning Gmax, you want to learn the base tools first, and you want to learn 'each tool' with precision. Focus on learning a tool, not making a plane. Its the tools that make the plane, so you need to learn the tools...

By the way, the terrain level in the tutorials is a bit odd, so is the animation of the character, but you will find out how certain things work, even though most of it you will not use in FS. Animation you will, and you might find yourself doing scenery one day, so do all that you can.. Every bit..


Side notes;

Main base tools; Move, Scale, Rotate... . (yep, only three). This is what FSDS uses that makes it so powerful (simple) is the 3 main tools. With Gmax though, you have tons of added tools for doing other things, like cutting out parts and things.


Other tools are;
* Smooth
* Mesh Smooth and adding 'Iterations' (levels of sophistication).
* Taper
* Bend (not used alot)

Mapping... When you 'paint' a plane or part, you will add UVW Maps. (Basically like assigning wallpaper to a part, and you use a texture to wallpaper it). Then you assign a UVW Unwrap to 'adjust' the part on the wallpaper. In Gmax, you are blessed with being able to assign several forms of mapping types, from flat to cylindrical to cube, etc, etc. Awesome for different parts, from a wing to a landing gear cylinder.

Also, note that a part or object is made of elements called Vertices, Polygons, Edges, Elements, and Faces. Basically you will usually only work with Vertices (point coordinates of a polygon(s), and Polygons (flat panels that are created from Vertice points). In Gmax you can work in Edges too, so you can operate on parts of a Polygon (flat area of a part). An Edge is unique and in Editable Mesh mode, you can extrude them, which is massively great for making additions and features to parts....



Remember... For now, just learn how to work one tool, and how it effects a model or part. Thats it.. Learn one tool, then move to the next. So easy..


Bill
 
Wish you've told me that BEFORE I - repeatedly - started trying GMax and giving up on it as many times :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

Good advice Bill... I just MIGHT try it once more in a few years... when I'm retired from publishing..... :173go1:
 
I would only add one further comment to Bill's list of things to do...

Do NOT waste your time on the stupid GMax P-38 tutorial as it's fatally flawed (unless your goal is to have an aircraft that flys backwards)...

DO download and use Milton's excellent C162 tutorial series... :ernae:
 
My 2 cents for whatever it's worth,

I've done a fair bit of minor mods for a half dozen or so games and I start most of my projects with a dedicated modeller (3DSMax, GMax) and do the final assembly with the game specific tools. Never could get a complete working plane directly outta 3dsmax or Gmax, but also found FSDS very clumsy in certain areas (like building parts and texturing) but FSDS does quite well with assembly from part lists, manipulating part axis', and animating. I doubt I could manage without BOTH tools (and paintshop, photoshop, dxtbmp, afcad, hex workshop), and a bunch of 3d model conversion tools and plugins of which most of the important ones are now included with FSDS.
 
FSDS or GMAX

I do all my stuff in FSDSv2 and over the years I think I've reached a level of about novice compared to Milton - I recently downloaded GMAX and find myself just staring at the screen with a blank look on my face - I'm comfortable with FSDS but still learning - I think Lionheart's advice is the best approach and one day I might act on it.

Give them both a go and find what works for you.

baldy
 
A few years ago, I got bored with my computer. I create and edit music, I edited video, did repaints, and tweaked the heck out of FS9 til it crashed. Repeatedly.

One day I decided to try something different. Someone at SOH reminded us that there was a version of Gmax included on the FS2004 disks. So, I opened it up and had a look at it. Then put it away.

Then Flight Ontario released my favorite airport CYHM with it's Warplane Heritage Museum included for all for free. Amazed, and curious how it was all done, I started up a dialogue with them asking questions about making scenery. I always wanted to do Rockliffe CYRO in honor of my late dad of the 408 Squadron, Rockliffe. An aerial photographer, he serviced Lancasters, and took part in the aerial mapping of Northern Canada.
A retired RCAF security officer at Flight Ontario named Al Gay started me on buildings in Gmax and after about a year, I had made my first complex building with scenery, Rockliffe, CYRO. Soon after that, I did my whole home airport CYFD.

Then I got bored with my computer.

So I opened Gmax again. But kept it open. Now I'm making my first model plane the Fairey Firefly. I have to say, it's been the most rewarding past time. I've learned a great deal more about Gmax. But, still have lots to learn.

The thing about Gmax is, it offers you many different ways of manipulating polygons. The way you decide to do this is up to your artistic imagination.
The cool thing is, you can get expert advice from great Gmax artists like Milton Shupe, Bomber12th, and Lionheart, through email. They are eager to share their knowledge of Gmax with aspiring modelers so that virtual flying keeps on. So you don't have to go THE BIG LEARN alone. They are there to help, and now so am I.

Other than that, all I can say is - try it. If you are somewhat artistic and patient, it's not so scary afterall. Just become familiar with what everything is called, what it does, and it will all make sense.

Doug
 
Lionheart,
After reading this thread I d/l'ed Gmax v1.2 from here:
http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax
It looks like I have to d/l the help and tutorial .exe files from the site as well as the basic Gmax package, correct?


Yes. You need to download the 'factory' Gmax tutorials.

TurboSquid now supports Gmax. They took over the Forums that Max had for Gmax. They sort of transplanted it over. I didnt like that move at first, but later my hangout for learning aspects of Gmax became FreeFlightDesign.com and now also FSDeveloper.com


Remember those rules on the tutorials.... Do the levels in order, and do not move to the next level up until you can do everything by heart (memorized) before doing the next level.

When you are learning Gmax, try making little dummy parts, practicing finding the tools buttons, like Taper, Smooth, Mesh Smooth, Extrusion, Chamfir, etc.
 
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