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Adding Immersion to Missions thread

O

O-1Driver

Charter Member 2011
Are any of you guys interested in a continuing thread that teaches how to add immersion to missions in ETO. We have some very good mission builders that could possibly benefit as well as a lot of new "closet" mission builders who are making their own missions that could greatly improve their learning curve. I know I learned the old fashioned way by trial and error and it took many years. We need more mission builders actively participating new and old.

The thread will not get into the debate of Historical vs What if missions, only ways to improve the realism, immersion and quality of both. A mission can be either type, be accurate but sterile.

Immersive missions require more time and effort to build either historical or what if but the results are well worth the additional time and effort required.

O-1
 
These are a few of the type of things I am talking about.

An RAF Bomber pilot prepares for takeoff from his home airfield at night. He is number three for departure and as he waits for his turn to take the active he notices the green (cleared for takeoff) caravan flare launching continuously and floating in the clear night air.

In the near distance fuel and ammo trucks are moving hastily away from the revetment area after fueling and arming thee aircraft.

As the pilot takes the active he can see searchlights in the distance marking the presence of Luftwaffe bombers hitting a factory and town several miles away. as he breaks ground he can see the large fires left by the German incendiaries, the glow is large and vivid against the night sky from miles away.

As the pilot turns on course to join the bomber stream and passes the coast he can see large AA bursts over a shipyard along with a single searchlight as the guns track outbound medium altitude German bombers.

Even though you took off in clear weather fog and low clouds are now forming mid channel as the weather worsens during your flight East..

As you near the French coast searchlights begin to probe the night and you can see a British warship in the near distance shelling some target in the night. Vivid star shells illuminate the surface battle but it is too far away to determine what is going on.

Suddenly and shortly after passing the coast German AA guns armed with AA flare shells appear and illuminate bombers ahead of you in the stream.

Then ....................................................:icon_lol:

O-1
 
Here is a daylight example.

As an Allied fighter bomber in France pilot you are starting your engine in the revetment area as the fuel truck pulls away. You are tail end Charlie in your group and the others are taxing out for takeoff. A C-47 is taking off ahead of the fighters. two more C-47s are passing over at low altitude as they begin swinging out for their downwind landing leg, watch out for them as you near the runway for departure.

You will be departing with a left crosswind today of five knots so be sure and input some rudder before adding power and beginning your takeoff roll. Left aileron and right rudder will insure a good track down the runway.

It is after D-Day and the Germans are in full retreat, your mission today is to attack German vehicles and troops in the vicinity of a major cross roads.

After takeoff and only a few miles North East of your airfield you can see a French town that bore the brunt of a major offensive by Allied tanks. Many burning buildings are evident and large areas of drifting smoke cover the area. In the fields north of town near a tree line a pair of burning Tiger tanks and several other smoking vehicles give testament to the ferocity of the battle.

Some miles away to the left of your course line heavy explosions can be seen and the immediate area is heavily covered with shell craters.

You pass over a destroyed column of German tanks and armored vehicles that are still exploding as fires ignite the fuel and remaining ammunition. Heavy black and gray smoke is drifting across the ground from the vehicles located on the road.

Your target is a group of 88mm guns that are shelling Allied tanks moving across a large field. The German 88s are taking a heavy toll of the Allied armor and a single lone Tiger is adding to the mayhem from his hidden position inside a damaged building.

Heavy low level German AA fire is coming from up at you from several German 37mm guns and the large green golfball tracers look huge as they pass your wind shield.

As you swing out for your first run on the 88s you can see a flight of British aircraft pounding additional targets to the west.

Suddenly you spot a lone Storch flying low over the trees.......................................

O-1
 
My favourite involves getting caught on the airstrip (Anywhere on Malta's a good one) with your pants down - starting up your Spit V and taxying out as the first wave of SM.79s unload on your airfield, things going off everywhere, major flap on, vehicles getting away from the parked aircraft, ack-ack banging off at everything in sight, and you're careering down the strip trying to avoid the craters and get off as a flight of Macchis comes tearing out of the sun shooting at you... If you want QC, you've got it. Staying alive on one of these is a major challenge! Paradoxically, CFS2 does this better as a rule. CFS3 is cantankerous, and the absence of triggers means you can't "plant" bombs to go off at interesting moments, among other things. You have to rely on the AI enemy actually to drop things, and you know what they can be like.

If anybody wants to tell me how to trigger an explosion in CFS3 - when for example the enemy flight enters a certain area, whether they bomb or not - I'd be thrilled to bits. So probably would my wingman... One thing I used to do was get a bomb to "fall" just as I cleared the runway...
 
ndicki said:
My favourite involves getting caught on the airstrip (Anywhere on Malta's a good one) with your pants down - starting up your Spit V and taxying out as the first wave of SM.79s unload on your airfield, things going off everywhere, major flap on, vehicles getting away from the parked aircraft, ack-ack banging off at everything in sight, and you're careering down the strip trying to avoid the craters and get off as a flight of Macchis comes tearing out of the sun shooting at you... If you want QC, you've got it. Staying alive on one of these is a major challenge! Paradoxically, CFS2 does this better as a rule. CFS3 is cantankerous, and the absence of triggers means you can't "plant" bombs to go off at interesting moments, among other things. You have to rely on the AI enemy actually to drop things, and you know what they can be like.

If anybody wants to tell me how to trigger an explosion in CFS3 - when for example the enemy flight enters a certain area, whether they bomb or not - I'd be thrilled to bits. So probably would my wingman... One thing I used to do was get a bomb to "fall" just as I cleared the runway...
Click to expand...

Nigel that sounds excellent for sure with great immersion

I am headed out for the afternoon but when I get back in we will use your questiuon as the first item as a "How To" in ETO. It can easily be accomplished with the current ETO install.

Steve
 
Sounds good - I think this will be a very productive thread! Good thinking there. Another thing I used to use in CFS2 was radio calls generated by a reduction in the capability of an aircraft; or to put it bluntly, when one or two (but far from all, hence the problem) aircraft went down, you'd get a screamer. A different one each time, so not what I did with the pilot kill effect. Generated by the status of the aircraft in question dropping below a certain percentage. Now if you can do that too, I'll start believing in Father Christmas! It can be used in all sorts of ways, not just for radio calls, of course.
 
For me, there are a few things that are really important for immersion:

1- briefing / debriefing sections.
I like to have as much details as posible, especially for historical missions (squadrons involved, pilots names when possible...). I also like to have details of what happened in the real mission in the debriefing section (not in the briefing section, this is an immersion killer), this is much better than "Godd job" or "Better luck next time". For me, this means that the mission builder has made deep researches, this part can take much more time than building the mission itself.
A historically accurate frontline is also an important item. This is very, very long to do but a good briefing text with an historical frontline then, the immersion begins before take off and the mission is much more immersive and pleasant.

2- historical accuracy is a major point for me, I don't really enjoy what if missions. Sometimes I do but it's rare. What really kills the immersion for me are things like: Emils that intercept B17's in 1945, Spitfire MkXIV defendig Malta, Do17 over Normandy in 1944 or things like that.
Sometimes, what I do is changing the skins of some aircrafts just to play one mission if I find skins with historical markings (this is what I do when I fly the Clostermann mission set for exemple).
Talking about skins, what a really hate is D Day stripes in 1943, that's completely kills the immersion for me.
 
Elermental Scale

What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

Proper scaling like this really connot be done without adversely affecting formations and tactics drastically, so,

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?
 
Hey all these do sound like fun,
Would anyone mind if I build these missions??

Your ideas have got me thinking..
If No one would object to this i'll get some along these lines started..
For malta (MAW) and BOB in ETO
Just asking..
With Led Zeppelin's Help I think I can come up with a few historical Missions for everyone also..
 
Creating bomb explosions and damage to Airfields and facilities

You can create simulated bomb explosions and or damage on an airfiled either during takeoff or arrival back at base.

In the drop down menu for facilities are three facilities, "Vehicle mine", "tank_mine" and "bomb_explosions". These can be used separately or together. These facilities are invisible and will show no tags when used in missions. In order to create damage to a facility, factory or airfield select the bomb_explosion and code it as German if placing on an Allied facility.

The bomb_explosion is actually an invisible large caliber gun which will target buildings and facilities within it's range. It will destroy any building or facility it targets such as hangars or warehouses.

The vehicle mine is also invisible and will target any vehicle (not tracked) within a limited range. It will shoot thru buildings in order to focus on a jeep or truck.

The "tank mine" will attack any tracked vehicle including tanks and half tracks.

The invisible facilities will actually destroy moving vehicles and other aircraft taking off around the player.

These facilities can be used as direct placement or as spawned facilities. To simulate a takeoff under fire do the following in mission building:
1. Place a formation of enemy bombers timed to arrive directly over the airfield as the player is taking off. These aircraft will "drop" the bombs that will explode all around the player.Tactical or high flying aircraft may be used. Multiple aircraft formations can be used. Aircraft Spawns are not recommended in this application.
2. The desired effect can be accomplished by placing one or more of the Bomb explosions or vehicle mines on the friendly facility until the desired damage is achieved. Use caution as the explosions are real and can kill the player before he is able to complete his takeoff.

The bomb explosions and vehicle mine can be used as a spawned facility to cause recent destruction to an airfield as the player approaches or to factories or other facilities as the player approaches them during the mission. This way a player can view burning shipyards, airfields or factories at any point in the mission.

All of the stock facilities in ETO have long burning fires and smoke and you can use timing to reach the desired result in visible damage or to have the player attacked while in the landing pattern.

The facilities can be used with mission target facility and the range at which they spawn is controlled by 8K, 10K 12K etc.

O-1
 
middle said:
If you guys wou;ld like I can stick this one...let me know....mid
Click to expand...
Thanks Mid but normally when something gets a sticky it is the kiss of death for active continuing posts. I would like to see this one continue as a living thread unless it gets to big and complicated.

thanks

Steve
 
Phenozo said:
What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

Proper scaling like this really connot be done without adversely affecting formations and tactics drastically, so,

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?
Click to expand...

Maybe Loic will answer this one as I have never done any large formation missions.

Steve
 
I agree with Loic that when a specific historical event is being duplicated, every attempt shold be made to get all the details as accurate as possible, sometimes this may mean new skins just for a specific mission.

I also think it is important to remember that there were hundreds of thousands of sorties flown every day during the war that are not chronicled in aviation history. Those missions were none the less exciting and dangerous to the chaps involved in them. I would like to see a lot more "what if" missions built that represent sorties flown that are correct for time and place but are not part of recorded history or significant on a large scale. examples of this are:

Anti shipping missions, ground attack missions, bomber intercept missions and so on. I have a friend here in town who flew P-40s in the Pacific and saw active combat but the missions he flew were not published as historical in nature. None the less they were very real and dangerous to him.

Lets have some fun with mission building in ETO and be tolerant of every ones efforts and give encouragement and help to the new guys coming along.:)

I don't have an answer to everything in MB and there are a lot of talented members like Loic and Nigel that can also provide a lot of answers and help. Nonato and House Hobbit are coming along raidly and should also be a great source of help for newbies.
O-1
 
I know this is for ETO but I'm more a PTO person and do have some surprises for you.How does a night landing on Carriers sound to you? Night fighters protecting the fleet or PBY's attacking IJN Carriers at night before the Battle of Santa Cruz grab you?How about P-39's and F4F3's at Henderson?I even have a What if which could interest you.I have alot of things planned for thr PTO update missions wise with accurate bomb loads for the planes and some new skins by Bravo for what I'm working on.

Steve doesn't know it yet but he's going to do some new effects for some ships.:jump:


Talon
 
Talon said:
I know this is for ETO but I'm more a PTO person and do have some surprises for you.How does a night landing on Carriers sound to you? Night fighters protecting the fleet or PBY's attacking IJN Carriers at night before the Battle of Santa Cruz grab you?How about P-39's and F4F3's at Henderson?I even have a What if which could interest you.I have alot of things planned for thr PTO update missions wise with accurate bomb loads for the planes and some new skins by Bravo for what I'm working on.

Steve doesn't know it yet but he's going to do some new effects for some ships.:jump:
Talon
Click to expand...

Al, It is so good to have you back! without a doubt you are "The Man" with regard to mission building in PTO. Looking forward to working with you on this next update.

Steve
 
Steve,I'll be back to working on PTO in about a month.With some of the new stuff already in the works I think PTO fans will be greatly surprised.


Talon
 
Talon said:
Steve,I'll be back to working on PTO in about a month.With some of the new stuff already in the works I think PTO fans will be greatly surprised.


Talon
Click to expand...

If there's anything I can do the help the PTO Team please feel free to ask.
 
Phenozo said:
What would you say a good scale would be to use when representing large historical encounters...

Say there was 200-300 total aircraft in the actual formations that participated.

How many aircraft should one aircraft represent, given the limitation considerations of x,y, and z?

What is the judgement call here?

Keep those missions parameters within the scope of what CFS3 and it's expansions can represent?

And given that, what is the object numbers limitation a mission can reach? Is it 128, or is that just aircraft?
Click to expand...

My biggest is 72 allied aircraft vs 32 axis (and spawns). All that over multiple targets around Calais with flak make your fps drastically go down, and sometime stop.

Think also that real bombrun didnt have the efficiency of our CFS3 simulation. A flight of 4 bombers is enough to destroy a submarine yard, where in real hundreds heavy bombers in many pass didnt succeed to destroy a single uboot hangar (but all around, including the town) (st nazaire, Lorient).

I pay attention on briefing notes... i noticed ledzepp remark :i will pay some more attention to debrief that are by now "good job".... lol.
 
(Meanwhile, I can't do missions for ETO simply because it ran correctly as a new 1.3 install, but it runs no more. It didn't appreciate something I did to it, but I can't for the life of me work out what! But I'm a Desert Rat at heart anyway, so I'm going to try and import all the goodies Steve mentioned above into MAW in any case. The problem of course is that it won't be general public... And given the number of **** answers I've been having to give of late, no, I'm not going to do a MAW upgrade package!) (Well, we'll see. But not now. Too much work in real life.)
 
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