Austrian Grand Prix

Panther_99FS

Panther_99FS

Retired SOH Administrator
- BRILLIANT drive by Max, nicely done!
- Gasly????
- Factory Renault still terrible
- Great job Lando!!!!
- Haas going backwards (needs to be a factory effort with Ford and (?) for chassis?)
- More Ferrari pit/team mistakes!!

And today's "what if"..?
"What if Red Bull had found a way to keep Ricciardo - would Red Bull be ahead of Ferrari in the Constructor's Championship?"
 
I might even look at this (recorded) round, however, the MotoGP round at Assen was too good to miss out on, out-bloody-standing racing as always.
Nice to hear MV did it, he is one reason I take some interest in the 'Circus'.
RBR should have paid DR the same as Max, then he might have stayed on.
Nothing wrong with those Honda engines now........Renault are following their previous record, the should simply be an engine supplier, as a Factory Team they have never done the business.
:encouragement:

Edit: Actually looked like some racing took place! Only marred by the inevitable blame game over that ridiculous radio link, something that needs to be banned.
 
wombat666 said:
Nothing wrong with those Honda engines now........Renault are following their previous record, the should simply be an engine supplier, as a Factory Team they have never done the business.
:encouragement:
Click to expand...

Too bad BAR/Villeneuve didn't enjoy a good Honda program..
 
BAR was never going to work, running obsolete 'Renault' engines supplied by Supertec and managed by Craig Pollock for starters.
HONDA came on board with plenty of power and the stipulation that a Japanese driver had a seat.
IIRC the car and engine were far better than the original, but reliability of both was a problem.
When 'Tobacco Advertising' was banned in 2005(?) BAT sold out to HONDA who already had a 45% stake in the team.
The following season (?) was more or less an epic fail as Williams had a dispute with HONDA over Button's contract, Dave Richards left and they received a 2 race suspension for a (questionable) weight infringement.
I doubt HONDA really wanted to be the Owner-Entrant of the team, they've always done much better as an engine supplier but I think (just me, myself) there was an element of 'Loss of Face' behind their commitment.
The GFC of 2008 hit Japan really hard and it caused HONDA to get out of F1, probably with a lot of share holder pressure.
Comes back to my observation re Renault, some operations should never do more than supply engines.
Reminds me of the 'Porsche V12' commissioned by 'Footwork' aka Arrows for the 1991 season, when the working drawings arrived in Alan Jenkins office he thought they had been enlarged!
Not so, the 'V12' was basically a pair of TAG V6 blocks joined end to end.............................:173go1:
 
It was a great weekend at Assen, both the Moto2 and MotoGP were very spectacular races. Although the Marquez brothers played an important role in both races, they were not able to dominate. And Assen is clearly not a circuit for the current Ducati!

The Austrian Formula One was definitely the best race of the season. (In fact the most probably only one which deserved to be watched). For me McLaren did the best job during this weekend. Sainz starting at position 19 and finishing 8th! And Lando Norris finishing 6th! Also the Alfa Romeo team did very well bring finishing in the points with both cars. Hardly visible in the back, George Russell showed he is a much better driver than the Williams currently deserves.

The most entertaining thing however happened after the race, when Mattia Binnoto was interviewed by Martin Brundle (a huge Verstappen fan). After Binotto's statement that he though Verstappen should be punished it wasn't much of an interview anymore. Brundle exploded and more or less forced the Scuderia Ferarri team boss to admit that according his (Binotto) opinion overtaking was only allowed on the straight using DRS.

For the "what if" of this week: In my opinion it seems Red Bull is going the same way as Honda in the MotoGP. By tailoring your car/bike so far on your main driver/rider, it is nearly impossible to be successful as a second driver. Red Bull has obviously chosen for Max and therefore Daniel would have been forced to drive in a car build for his team mate and obviously he would receive the leftovers like Pierre Gasly gets now.


Cheers,
Huub
 
Well, it is the correct application of the standard
F1 rules.
Every infraction is to be punished, except when done
against a red painted car. In this case you may punish
the red painted car instead.
This is specially applied when the "winner" team has also
the property of the circuit.
 
Hi Alexander.

Its all quite simple, the Prancing Pony team, has their own red cars, they are delivering the (complete) Haas cars and are in full control of the Sauber/Alfa Romeo team. Whatever they shout or claim will always be supported by these teams as they are fully depending on them. Personally I think the FIA lost patience with the red cars team, when they kept blocking changes by threatening they would leave F-1

The Silver Arrows are nearly at the same level. They have Racing Point (Stroll & Co) and Williams as their devoted followers, but these teams are not fully under control of the engine supplier.

The Diamond team from France currently doesn't have much power. But as they are an engine supplier, they can perhaps not yet count on much support, but nobody wants to have a disagreement with them (expect for the other factory teams) as you might be depending on their engines next season.....

Which leaves the Red Bulls and their satellite team Torro Rosso more or less on their own. With the arrival of Honda they have gained some power, as this might be a potential engine supplier for the future. But Honda hasn't been successful enough (yet) to dictate what the FIA should decide...

Less complex engines and more engine suppliers looks like some of the things desperately needed to make this sport a bit healthier

Cheers,
Huub
 
hmmm, I'm afraid things are not this way. I follow F1 since I was ten (1963 - Yes, i'm old). :wavey:
F1 was and is an English matter. Do you remember a certain Bernie Ecclestone? Now the
property of F1 belongs to CVC ( https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVC_Capital_Partners ) based
in London..

Red Bull ( Aston Martin Red Bull Racing ) is a British licensed team founded by Dietrich
Matechitz (Austrian billionaire).

Austrian F1 circuit ( ehm, Red Bull Ring ) is property of... guess who...?
 
alx said:
hmmm, I'm afraid things are not this way. I follow F1 since I was ten (1963 - Yes, i'm old). :wavey:
F1 was and is an English matter. Do you remember a certain Bernie Ecclestone? Now the
property of F1 belongs to CVC ( https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVC_Capital_Partners ) based
in London..

Red Bull ( Aston Martin Red Bull Racing ) is a British licensed team founded by Dietrich
Matechitz (Austrian billionaire).

Austrian F1 circuit ( ehm, Red Bull Ring ) is property of... guess who...?
Click to expand...

You know me Alex, I'm old too. I can even remember the days before Bernie Ecclestone took control over Formula One and turned it into a commercial circus. In fact the Ferarri team used to stay in a hotel in my home village when they raced at Zandvoort. They arrived by mini-van in those days and didn't bring their own sponsor home with them!
Ecclestone reorganised Formula 1 and moved the control over the money from the circuit owners to the racing teams (at least that's how he advertised it). But I personally think people like Jean Marie Balestre, Max Mosley and Jean Todt have been very much in control over the rules and regulations. And when I see which team are currently visited by Jean Todt in his role as chairman of the FIA, I think my listing above isn't very much beside the truth.....

Before Red Bull became Red Bull, it was Jaguar Racing (beautiful green artwork on the cars!), which had been Steward Racing (Scottish), but was actually Ford (American). And Red Bull is not British licensed, but Austrian. Which is why they played the Austrian anthem during the podium ceremony.

The junior Team Torro Rosso, used to be Minardi before Red Bull bought it. This team is still licensed in Italy.

The owner of Red Bull is rich, very rich, but not even close to the sort of money Daimler Benz (Mercedes) can spend......

Cheers,
Huub
 
Here's where NASCAR and F1 drivers differ IMHO....
If this were a NASCAR race, then the Red Bull Driver (Max) would know that the Ferrari driver (LeClerc) will pass him in the same manner at some point in the future. And the NASCAR Red Bull driver would then admit that he had it coming....and it would be "done"....
 
NASCAR?
:biggrin-new:
Every Circus has it's clowns.
I guess you get your moneys worth, one race consists of three separate sections.
Indeed, while Effwun 'regulations and driving standards' are sad, at least NASCAR 'regulations' provide a load of comedy.
:devilish:
 
If it was NASCAR, Leclerc would have been in the wall....

He should have crossed back behind Max and tried to overtake on the straight.
 
Ferry_vO said:
If it was NASCAR, Leclerc would have been in the wall....
.
Click to expand...
Not true all of the time.
In NASCAR people have been moved out of the way without being put into the wall - in fact, this is more common than being put into the wall.
 
Could not agree more Ferry!
Sad how 'we' complained about a boring French GP, a ridiculous penalty in Canada and now the amount of pissing and moaning when Austria turned into a half decent race between two young chargers!
Leclerc should have played it smart and backed out for another run instead of (attempting) to remain ahead when the corner was lost.

And Huub, I think Honda have been working toward getting a bike that Jorge would be comfortable on, his pace has improved just as it did with Ducati once they sorted the bike out to suit him.
Shame he threw it into the kitty litter and hurt himself. One vertebrae higher and he'd be in a wheelchair.
If Jorge retires (IMHO that would be sensible) Honda would be looking around for another charger, they need a second rider capable of winning, not just relying on Marc.
:encouragement:
 
Ed, NASCAR is just a 'Domestic Made in the USA' series that the bulk of the International Motor Racing fraternity are just not interested in.
It would be like me promoting the Supercars Series (sadly diminished) as a 'Great' racing series, which only attracts attention when the 1000k Bathurst round is run.
NASCAR is blighted by the stupidity of the present regulations supposedly designed to make the 'Fans' happy, it certainly has lost the interest generated as far back as the Nineties when the racing was great and I (just me) attempted to follow the entire series.
The advertising alone is enough to make me avoid any coverage like the plague (or H5N).
:devilish:

And let's be frank, the 'Fans' only watch NASCAR for the crashing and bashing!

And a PS: we need to chill.
 
Panther_99FS said:
Not true all of the time.
In NASCAR people have been moved out of the way without being put into the wall - in fact, this is more common than being put into the wall.
Click to expand...

What I meant was, if it was a NASCAR track, there would have been a wall in stead of a run off area (Or a gravel trap like there used to be on F1 tracks..) and Leclerc would have never tried to stay where he was, or his race would've ended right there. With all the miles of tarmac available it is now too easy to try and keep your position, run off the track and then complain over the radio (Which race control also hears!) that you've been wronged (AKA Give the other guy a penalty.).
I'm just glad the Marshalls decided in favor of F1 for once, unlike incidents in previous races.
 
Don't get me wrong...
Like I first said, Max drove a brilliant race and personally, I have no issue with how he passed LeClerc....

That being said, when (not if) LeClerc passes Max in the same manner, Max should not get bent out of shape.....
 
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