• There seems to be an up tick in Political commentary in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site we know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religiours commentary out of the fourms.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politicion will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment amoung members. It is a poison to the community. We apprciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Black Holes and FTL; my thoughts

Lionheart

SOH-CM-2014
Hey all,

I have a couple of problems with some of the quantum theories that are out there that are still unproven.

One is Black Holes. Think of this. If a black hole exists and is based on gravity that can literally eat anything and is so powerful that it eats light as well, (bends it in that it cannot be seen over it, but appears like a black hole) then you would 'think' that there would be nothing 'inside' of the black hole. But... The gravity requires matter, as the gravity is like a shadow of the matter, and the matter is the part that is collapsed, thus the center of the black hole in theory 'must' still be there from the collapses star, which by the way is mostly gas, as we believe, (another theory, eeks).

So, in the present structure of this theory, a black hole 'has' matter 'in' it. Where did all of this matter go? Why didnt it collapse sooner if it had all this gravity? Why doesnt this happen in smaller scenario's? For instance, can we replicate this on a smaller scale?

I do not think that a black hole is what people actually think they are. I believe it is something totally different. I could be wrong, but it just doenst compute. Perhaps it is a rip in space (my theory) in which a multi or dual 'gate' has been created or torn or simply exists in two or more planes of existence or dimensions.

Perhaps a star simply burns out. Perhaps it doesnt turn into the smallest element in the universe and create a 'eat anything' pit of doom.

Here is a simple illustration. A black hole in todays theories 'must' have matter to exist, matter in it. That is why its there is collapsed matter. Tremendous ammounts of matter. Where is it? Why is the gravity still there? Density you say? Its all 'really small!' you say. Doesnt that sound a little 'Monty Python' to you? Thats like saying that the mountain over there in Flagstaff was so tired from existing for so long, and it was so heavy, that it collapsed on itself and made a big hole and it bent time and space, and if you looked inside it, there would be this back hole that ate light. (Wheres the mountain though? How do you collapse all that matter thats trapped in the center? What kept it from collapsing in the first place? What then is weight or pressure then that it can 'over-ride' or overcome an objects base mass (without holes in the surrounding area, like a clump of metal, instead of a metal structure. For instance, gas, when its untimately collapsed, is usually liquid, and then frozen. I have never seen it collapse before).



Another thing. FTL, (faster then light). People say you absolutely cannot travel past FTL. Again, I have an issue dealing with this. They say that speed and time are linked. No way, I say. How can you 'reverse' time by going faster then light via motion? How does motion interact with time? How can you change time (your position in time) by going faster then the speed of light?

First, light is the speed of which protons depart from a light source. (Correct me if I am wrong). Now, how about the sub atomic particles that travel far faster then time? Yep. Tachyons travel faster then light. Do you see them going in and coming out of time events? Do they change or effect matter when the collide into things such as us, Earth, etc? I dont.

They postulated that going faster then the Sound Barrier would have horrific ramifications, when in WWII, planes were going sonic in dives, the Me-163 Komet was skirting the barrier continuously, and I am sure a pilot in those things occasionally popped through the barrier in dives 'often'.

Perhaps there may be some sort of 'effect' or event that happens when a craft will go through the light barrier, but I do not believe your home world will age massively while you are in FTL for an hour. I do not believe you will get back and society will have aged 20 years, lol... No... No, no, no, no, no.....



Ok, I'll step down from my soap box and allow you all to take a shot at me with cabbage and and rebuttals. :d


Bill
 
if i knew enough to make an intelligent rebuttal, i would. however, atm i'm too busy eating potato chips to google up some instant info. :icon_lol:
 
That is about the deepest subject I have ever seen here! Something is holding all the stars etc. in orbit in each galaxy, if not they would scatter. Call it a black hole or whatever. Whatever it is it has mass off any scale I can comprehend.

FTL, who knows? I don't think our scientists are near as smart as they think they are. We may be at the very bottom of our understanding of the universe. The known universe may be no more than a grain of sand (or less) in the grand scheme of things.

On one of those science shows after they finished talking about nothing being able to go FTL they listed an exception which are the galaxys. They are retreating from each other FTL. They say thats why we can see no farther than 11.5 billion light years. As the galaxys are retreating FTL the light they are giving off can never reach us.

Time dilation has been proven. They have to compensate for it in order for the GPS satilites to function.

That's enough from me, someone else take a crack at it.
 
For instance, can we replicate this on a smaller scale?

LHC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider

Regarding black holes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole


First, light is the speed of which protons depart from a light source. (Correct me if I am wrong).
Photons.

Perhaps there may be some sort of 'effect' or event that happens when a craft will go through the light barrier, but I do not believe your home world will age massively while you are in FTL for an hour. I do not believe you will get back and society will have aged 20 years, lol... No... No, no, no, no, no.....
Perhaps.

But why worry about FTL travel when we can't even get a man onto our neighbouring planet?


I for myself am content enough with the realization that the night time sky with all its stars is actually just an image OF THE PAST. :d
 
Well, theories are revised or debunked when new info comes to light. Current ideas are based on our current knowledge of the universe and really we know nothing of the inner workings of the infinite black yonder. So, like you said, people thought breaking the sound barrier was impossible and would be catostrophic. Who's to say what the future may hold? Those lads at CERN and others are constantly trying to prove and disprove theories that could potentially throw the laws of physics out the window. As for black holes and matter, look at the states of matter we are familiar with now, all the different properties they have. There might be another matter state we haven't found yet in one of those black holes. Could be anti-matter could be dark matter or something never even theorised before. Never say never. You've got some interesting ideas although I think you've been watching too much Stargate :icon_lol:
 
Lock me into a room for 3 days with a bag of jamaican skunk weed, crate of whiskey and a p!ss pot and I'll have all the answers to these questions....and many more too.

:d
 
It all made sense when I learned that light has mass, thats why gravity can bend it. Black holes have mass, LOTS of it so the gravity from all that mass attracts MORE mass, when the process ends- nobody knows but the light is still there at the center of gravity or scattered around the mass but moving faster than the natural speed of light, undetectable by current technology. I think eventually the universe will be pulled into a black hole thats never stopped growing from endless supply of mass provided by the universe- jillions of years from now.

Stargates ? Rips in space ?? You must be joking !!!

Another thing. FTL, (faster then light). People say you absolutely cannot travel past FTL. Again, I have an issue dealing with this. They say that speed and time are linked. No way, I say. How can you 'reverse' time by going faster then light via motion? How does motion interact with time? How can you change time (your position in time) by going faster then the speed of light?
Relativity. You see the events in time but are unable to interact with them (past), I don't believe you can travel to the future without the aid of the 'bag of jamaican skunk weed'.

:)

...and your towel.
 
Bill,

You should read "The Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking. I think you would enjoy it, and it addresses a bunch of questions you have. Might bring up a lot more too.
 
Hey all,

I have a couple of problems with some of the quantum theories that are out there that are still unproven.

One is Black Holes. Think of this. If a black hole exists and is based on gravity that can literally eat anything and is so powerful that it eats light as well, (bends it in that it cannot be seen over it, but appears like a black hole) then you would 'think' that there would be nothing 'inside' of the black hole. But... The gravity requires matter, as the gravity is like a shadow of the matter, and the matter is the part that is collapsed, thus the center of the black hole in theory 'must' still be there from the collapses star, which by the way is mostly gas, as we believe, (another theory, eeks).

So, in the present structure of this theory, a black hole 'has' matter 'in' it. Where did all of this matter go? Why didnt it collapse sooner if it had all this gravity? Why doesnt this happen in smaller scenario's? For instance, can we replicate this on a smaller scale?

I do not think that a black hole is what people actually think they are. I believe it is something totally different. I could be wrong, but it just doenst compute. Perhaps it is a rip in space (my theory) in which a multi or dual 'gate' has been created or torn or simply exists in two or more planes of existence or dimensions.

Perhaps a star simply burns out. Perhaps it doesnt turn into the smallest element in the universe and create a 'eat anything' pit of doom.

Here is a simple illustration. A black hole in todays theories 'must' have matter to exist, matter in it. That is why its there is collapsed matter. Tremendous ammounts of matter. Where is it? Why is the gravity still there? Density you say? Its all 'really small!' you say. Doesnt that sound a little 'Monty Python' to you? Thats like saying that the mountain over there in Flagstaff was so tired from existing for so long, and it was so heavy, that it collapsed on itself and made a big hole and it bent time and space, and if you looked inside it, there would be this back hole that ate light. (Wheres the mountain though? How do you collapse all that matter thats trapped in the center? What kept it from collapsing in the first place? What then is weight or pressure then that it can 'over-ride' or overcome an objects base mass (without holes in the surrounding area, like a clump of metal, instead of a metal structure. For instance, gas, when its untimately collapsed, is usually liquid, and then frozen. I have never seen it collapse before).



Another thing. FTL, (faster then light). People say you absolutely cannot travel past FTL. Again, I have an issue dealing with this. They say that speed and time are linked. No way, I say. How can you 'reverse' time by going faster then light via motion? How does motion interact with time? How can you change time (your position in time) by going faster then the speed of light?

First, light is the speed of which protons depart from a light source. (Correct me if I am wrong). Now, how about the sub atomic particles that travel far faster then time? Yep. Tachyons travel faster then light. Do you see them going in and coming out of time events? Do they change or effect matter when the collide into things such as us, Earth, etc? I dont.

They postulated that going faster then the Sound Barrier would have horrific ramifications, when in WWII, planes were going sonic in dives, the Me-163 Komet was skirting the barrier continuously, and I am sure a pilot in those things occasionally popped through the barrier in dives 'often'.

Perhaps there may be some sort of 'effect' or event that happens when a craft will go through the light barrier, but I do not believe your home world will age massively while you are in FTL for an hour. I do not believe you will get back and society will have aged 20 years, lol... No... No, no, no, no, no.....



Ok, I'll step down from my soap box and allow you all to take a shot at me with cabbage and and rebuttals. :d


Bill

Great Topix,..The TV programs now dwell in this ,as a form of entertaiment....Ever since we huddled in the caves and dared to look up and wonder!..Wonder what?!..A man and a Dog sit watching a fire..what do both take from it?...The heavens are a fire of sorts,a violent ,unstable place,of which both man and dog can see in the nite sky.I think we are not yet there on the evelountry scale to comprehend this,a small step above the dog!...We,more are like our close relative ,the Great Apes, like contemplating a computer, and do not YET,have a clue as to what they are looking at.!...We Strut around with a brain just about hatching,and our super Ego.s think its capable of understanding all the questions we dream up,and solving the eternal questions of ????......well its not there yet,our limited brain....It will take many ,many generations yet to come ,to even begin to comprehend whats staring us in the face!....Yet like other great forms of life,the possibility exists,that we may all be wiped out in a Milli second,by the very things we are now trying to comprehend.....then again ,we like some primitive people .playing with a Hand Grenade,,will eliminate ourselves thru mindless ignorance of new technolgy....We were clever to figure out how to destroy all life,yet incapable as to how to preserve life!......its these Questions one can appeal to a higher power,and pray for wisdom to understand our selves, our meaning,our destiny.......Mean While "CARPE DEIUM"...Enjoy your /mine/our ,Milli sec in time,for time is constant ,and we are not!!........Thanx for a good subject!!...Vin!!
 
These are questions that greatly intrique me and I am hoping that somehow the LHC is going to provide the answers to some of these questions. It would make sense though that if matter is created it would somehow have to be destroyed and black holes serve that purpose. I do not believe they are rips in space, or gates as you say. I think stuff like that is of science fiction (although I will admit that anything is possible). To me having other dimensions of space is a pretty complex idea. That gets into theories of matter existing in the same place in different dimensions, and opposite dimensions that run parallel to our own but where the events are reversed.... Another interesting thing to read about if you are reading about black holes is anti-matter, and the fabric of space. I am willing to be that we will never figure any of this stuff out before I am buried. Such is the way it goes I guess, and I am sure there is probably plenty of stuff that we are never meant to know. Won't stop me from trying though.
 
The God Particle

Higgs Boson

One of the most significant science projects ever undertaken...
CERN has spent $8 billion on the LHC to peer back into the first moments of the Universe.
They say it's there we will learn much about all these difficult questions.
 
No need to look far for black holes. There's one in my wife's purse. It swallows my money like there's no tomorrow.
 
Bill, you're speaking the wrong language to understand black holes and relativity. That's why physicists and astronomers all use higher math...It's really just a language to better understand the underlying structure of the universe. English, and all other languages other than math, are too illogical and sometimes counterintuitive to accurately explain what goes on out there. Don't despair of ever understanding, though. It just takes learning a whole new "language" where E=mc2 and all that implies.
 
I have a thought on this
when matter and a lot of it spins faster than light it becomes a black hole and pulls all matter into it at speeds faster than light.

other thoughts
http://ronnylarson.com/the-universe.htm

Yes indeed life does exist on other worlds, it just could not be that we are the only planet with life. Do the math.

actually, that very type of thinking ignores quite a bit of math, and many other important facts involving what is neccessary for there of be life of ANY kind, let alone what we consider intelligent. i don't know if there is life on other planets or not. but the road you are taking that has convinced you, is not a logical one, but more of an anecdotal one.
 
Such great mysteries. How they are like cans of worms...

Here is something for you, a mix between Star Trek and the Philadelphia experiment.

The 'Enterprize' uses a 'Warp Bubble' which surrounds the craft and protects it from 'whatever' and allows it to go into high speeds (warp? Could that be speed of light per unit of warp?).

Now, on the Philadelphia, she was equipped with all these antennaes all around her. She was equipped with alot of generators that loaded a eletrical field around the ship. The first test run was to a ship yard in Australia, where in about 30 min's, she showed up and the captain called in to America to let them know he was there and was about to return. However, on the return, there was a catastrophic failture, electrical, and the trip back was much longer. Some of the crew melded into 'metal' having drifted into the walls and things. Some went insane from what they saw, and some were noted to have a transparency that would come and go that really freaked people out.

The Germans, by the way, first found out that you could make things disappear by putting a strong electric field around them. They were going to make an antennae system for their cities that would hide them from bombers. They showed this at the world fair just before WWII broke out. You went into the theater, set down in the audience, the curtains lifted, and a model (very large) was on the stage. A hum started that was of the generators and electricity going through the wires surrounding the model town. After 20 min's, the town was basically gone aside from a shimmer in the air and the view behind the said town model.

Now, based on that info, the Philly and the German 'Hide-A-Town' electro system, I can formulate pretty dang easily that a 'field' can change the displacement (mass and things) of an object (like people and metal and light) and perhaps shift them out of this dimension (where we couldnt see them any more, etc).


Slightly off topic; There is a funny story about some of the crew that were on the Philly, months after its journey to Australia. They (3) were at a bar, the usual bar, and got into a fight, and the bar was full, and after a moment of slugging it out, they began going transparent. This 'really' freaked out the crowd, and there were thus witnesses, and soon it was in the local paper. The effect seemed to come and go...


Pretty wild stuff out there.
 
when i was about 12 i found a copy of a book written by charles berlitz that talked about the philadelphia experiment and several other interesting legends like the mary celeste, the lost squadron of tbms, bermuda triangle stories etc. i went to all the libraries i could get to on the bus system and devoured every book i could find on the philadelphia experiment. very interesting stuff.
 
Back
Top