Bump mapping?

ndicki

ndicki

Charter Member 2016
There is a thread below which starts off about bump mapping, but which moves onto gunsights before anything is said that clearly. As I'd like to take a look at how this can be used, can anyone give me some help to get started? I've got the Nvidia tools for Photoshop installed and working, and have generated a dds file that looks like a bump map for the upcoming Kittyhawk, but that's as far as I've got. I don't actually know what to do with it - naming conventions, etc.

If anybody can help?
 
Technically speaking they are normal maps, as opposed to bump maps. I have used a height field to normal map tool in paint.net to make them and it seems to work well. It can be hard to get them looking right, in my experience they need to be quite subtle to give good results. As for naming, the normal map does not need to be called in the the m3d, you just have to name it right. So for a main texture called p_51d_t.dds, the corresponding normal map will be called p_51d_t.+nm.dds and will activate automatically if you are using Ankor's shaders. It will have no effect at all other then taking up a bit of HD space if you aren't. One last caveat, DXT compression will mess them up, use have to use an uncompressed format, or IIRC there are some Nvidia tools that will help you get around this, but I've not used them yet.
 
Er... Nothing. I saved it as US-W85_P-40E_t.+nm.dds in DXT5 (NM) which seems to be the right setting using the Nvidia plug-in... No effect at all. What am I doing wrong? I have AnKor's shaders from August 2016 running.
 
I just did some experimenting. Try saving it in the 3Dc normal map mode. It will switch the image from a grey scale map to shades of purple and yellow. If the shades of grey you're starting with are not balanced either side of 50% it may shift the texture colors being displayed lighter or darker.

I can't say I like the effect, but I did get the roundels to look like thick decals.
 
Tried that - still no joy. I'm wondering if there isn't one or other of the shaders settings that's different from your install to mine - probably a good many of them even! I'm getting just enough reflective shine, but nothing from the normal map. It does look pinkish-blue, exactly like the ones I have in other formats from other sims such as SF2, so I'm at least getting the basics right-ish!
 
Good luck w/ this... it would really kick things up a notch w/ even the tiniest effect... :encouragement:
 
Try saving as a straight 24bit dds, this has worked worked fine for me.

Here's a sample for the Spitfire VIII, try it and see if it works for you.
 

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I can't see that there is any difference in game.

Can you show a before and after comparison so I can tell what I'm looking for with the file you provided?
 
I've tried the Spitfire one and there is indeed a barely perceptible effect - try looking at the cockpit door from a sharp angle, and you may see that there is some suggestion of a difference in height - though whether you'd get this on a real aircraft is again a moot point. I'd see it as more useful for fabric-covered control surfaces and so on.

On the Kittyhawk I've managed to do a normal map in the same style as the one for the Spitfire, and I honestly can't see the difference...
 
It is very subtle, this is partly because Ankor has provided bump mapping by default without using a map, which has improved a lot from the first versions. You almost don't need a bump map unless you want to ensure specific details are brought out that way (like fabric surfaces). Also, the shinier the aircraft is, the most noticeable is the bump mapping.
 
Which may explain a lot. The Kittyhawk is fresh in off the desert and the paint is not at all shiny...
 
gecko said:
It is very subtle, this is partly because Ankor has provided bump mapping by default without using a map, which has improved a lot from the first versions. You almost don't need a bump map unless you want to ensure specific details are brought out that way (like fabric surfaces). Also, the shinier the aircraft is, the most noticeable is the bump mapping.
Click to expand...

I was experimenting with this some this morning and it seems to be most sensitive to the EnvReflection parameter in d3d8.ini with higher numbers making it more noticeable and low numbers effectively turning it off. The Glossiness parameter has a complimentary effect, but is secondary to seeing it there or not. This is probably good in that it lets you have bumping effects even on aircraft with matte paint finishes.

One of the things model developers probably need to consider when they release a new package is to let the users know what the design intent was for the finish appearance. Since AnKor's shaders are so adjustable, it would be good to state the recommended settings for things like EnvReflection and Glossiness that will match the intensity levels of the _r.dds and _s.dds files being provided and the specular settings built into in the m3d. The users could still adjust their ini parameters to suit their particular tastes, but at least they would know where to start.

In the shader packages I've published for AnKor here at SOH I default EnvReflection=5 and Glossiness=1, as it seems to provide a reasonably realistic starting point for most of the aircraft finishes we already have in the game. If a developer wanted to design their new model at some other settings to get a particular look they would just need to let everyone know to make that adjustment to the d3d8.ini file. This biggest problem I can see with that is flying a mix of types designed to different standards might look "wrong" on some of the models.
 
I'm having trouble nailing this down. I have saved in BMP, 24 bit or not, but there is absolutely no effect. If I save in dds with anything less than 32 bit, the model/texture appears to be faceted with some satin like shimmering. There is the desired bump map effect butit has these issues.

If I save in 32 bit dds I get very decent map (this one is exaggerated) but the facets/shimmering remain but to a very much lesser degree. The map texture is also a whopping 21mb.

Any assistance would be greatful.
 
John and Nigel, have you seen this? Those two have been using them and saving them in a much smaller format too.
 
Which paint program are you using? You will need a normal map filter plugin installed into the program.
 
For info, I'm using Photoshop with the Nvidia plug-in that John has mentioned. You'll need to fiddle around with the settings a bit. I find that white areas are inset, black areas protrude, so the details in the image you use are inverted compared to the _s level image.
 
Yea what Nigel says, and once the normal map has been applied to the texture, it should be saved as a .dds, then "3Dc XY 8bpp Normal Map" in the drop down list, if you are using the Nvidia plug-in.

The Nvidia plugin will work with Paintshop Pro as long as it's not above PSP 9, if I remember correctly?

If you are using anything else other that Photoshop, or Paintshop Pro, I won't be familiar with whatever you are using? I do know some people on here have used Paint.net and have managed to save normal maps without issue, but I have never used that program.
 
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