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carrier take offs

hurricane3

SOH-CM-2025
Lately I've been practising carrier takeoffs and boy is that frustrating.I put in the "take off from fantail" patch but it doesn't seem to do much good.
Some planes will take off just fine ,other like jets and heavely loaded planes stall as soon as you lift off.
I have increased the power scalar and that seems to work on some planes ,like the Banshee but others like a loaded down Hellcat just stalls every time.
I've gotton to the point where I lift off without any ordance ,then add the ordence after I'am airborn, or I even use slew to get the plane in the air,but that's somewhat of a pain .First you start the engines and hold with brakes(I have CH rudder pedals) then lower flaps then go to settings and disable joystick ,because if you don't and hit Y for slew, the planes goes nuts.Then I hit Y for slew and use the keys for forword then gain height ,then hit come out of slew, hit settings ,enable joystick ,raise the gear,milk up the flaps and your on your way.
Not very immersive.
Some planes don't even have power scalar in their config file.These are ones I have to use the takeoff without ordance or slew them into the air.Any other suggestions would be welcome.
 
Maybe you have to increase the speed of the carrier ? And/or add some wind.
I have also noticed that for some aircrafts, it is easier to take off from a carrier with the flaps up.
 
How I do it...

I can't speak for jets, but for prop planes: The aircraft is close to the fantail... set park brake and pull back on the stick (this will help to keep you from "nosing over") while you increase power to full. Hit WEP and release the park brake and ease up on the stick. I have found that stock planes and many downloads do not have significant lift modeled in with the flaps. Ergo, all the flaps do in that case is increase drag and slow you down. Test the plane: while flying level, hit the flaps. Does it stay level or does it rise? If it rises then lift is modeled in with the flaps. If not, do not use flaps on take off. Special case: For 1% planes, follow the checklist and follow instructions on setting trim for take off. :salute:

You can also increase the carrier's speed and/or add a headwind to the mission as stated above.
 
I think that Vidal and Shadow Wolf have part of the solution for you. Many planes, including the stock MS CFS 2 aircraft, don't use lift in the flaps as that confuses the AI performance for some reason.

Given that, I usually keep stock planes with stock flight models for AI use and then use a properly built air file for the player planes. I'm able to then get off of the decks, especialy, if as noted above, you have your CV steaming at 28 to 30 knots into the wind. Setting wind up is best done in the Mission Builder.

The green ghost gauge can be set up to act as a catapult or super WEP, but it's been a while since I've used it. Perhaps one of our more nautically inclined members can fill you in on that. If not, instructions come with the gauge. It used to be available here, but if it's AWOL, you can get it at the larger sites.
 
Jagd: Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you can't set wind in Mission Builder (MB). You have to set wind direction and speed in Free Flight (FF) along with altitude. Then you go to the FF section of the cfs2.cfg file and copy the wind data. Lastly, you paste this data in the weather section of the mission .mis file. If you reopen the mission in MB and save it again, the wind zeroizes and you'll have to cut and paste it again.

I'm pretty sure this is explained with visual aids in Cody Coyote's Mission Builder Tutorial, found here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/ldm-silk-icons/download.png
 
Catapult Launch

An option for some planes is Cat Launch. Its not hard to setup. Tango_Romeo did a tutorial on it. You can even use it for a JATO/RATO assisted takeoff. There is even an option for jets, thought the jets have a bug.

If you need any assistance let me know.
 
Thanks for clarifying that Shadow Wolf. I didn't explain it very well.

By doing so, you can hover a Storch over the Graf Zeppelin's deck or take off like a helicopter in it.
 
I don't let out the flaps until I'm halfway down the ship. This will get you 5 more knots of airspeed on some planes.
 
VF-17 Tommy Blackburn's way

Hi Hurricane3!

Another good suggestion is given by Cdr. Tom Blackburn in his WWII written account of VF-17 (thank you again, Jagd!) tours of duty.

What I like a lot about this book is that Cdr. Blackburn talks about the training/break-in period a naval squadron must take in order to obtain carrier qualification even if its pilots are already experienced. Other WWII pilots wrote very little about their training period, if not at all.

Coupled with the fact that "Jolly Rogers" pilots were breaking-in brand new F4U1 Corsairs, with all the teething problems early "birdcage" F4U1's had, the account is breathtaking.

Despite that the Royal Navy later developed a curved, banked approach to the carrier stern, designed to overcome the pilot's built-in blindness of the Corsair long nose during the final approach, a landing tecnique subsequently adopted by the US Navy as well, all of VF-17 pilots obtained their car-qual with the birdcage Corsair, doing the standard US Navy straight approach based exclusively on LSO signals.
It's truly remarkable and it speaks loudly about the pilotmanship those guys had.

The later F4U 1-A variant the Jolly Rogers deployed with, tried to cure some of the Corsair visibility problems with a raised seat and a semi-bubble canopy, while the nasty stall carachteristics of the birdcage Corsair were improved thanks to a leading edge, small, wing spoiler developed by VF-17's technical officer. Even the first Corsair bomb rack was developed by VF-17 and they carried out the very first Corsair ground attack in WWII. Strangely enough, no aviation history book reports that, as well as the fact that early Corsair carrier deployment refusal by the US Navy was not due to the fact that the US Navy judged Corsairs unsuitable to carrier ops, but merely to the logistic problem of keeping VF-17 home carrier USS Bunker Hill supplied with Corsair spares. At the end of 1943, VF-17 was the only carrier group equipped with F4U1-As, while every other carrier group flew F6F Hellcats, this posed a serious supply logistic problem at the time. Land-based Corsair Marine groups were already operating in the Solomons and the supply line there was not a problem, hence VF-17, the very first Navy Corsair squadron, was land-based with their Corsairs maintainained by Marine ground crews.

Cdr. Blackburn describes step-by-step all of the takeoff and landing procedures a naval pilot must follow down to the deck personnel's signals, behaviour and color-coded jerseys worn. I remember the sequence very well, as I adopted it immediately after reading it.


  • Start the engine with full brakes on, no flaps, trim the aircraft considerably up, rev the engine slowly to full power, holding the stick completely back to avoid nosing over.
  • Release brakes, as soon as the plane starts rolling, push the stick fully forward to force the tail lift sooner than it would normally do. This allows for a much quicker airspeed gain. Be swift to counteract engine torque with the rudder.
  • As soon as the tail lifts, control the plane attitude to avoid again hitting the deck with the propeller and drop full flaps right before reaching the deck end. This allows for less drag and further airspeed gain, as Erufle rightly pointed out.
  • Leave the deck, lift the undercarriage immediately while allowing the aircraft to gain speed and altitude naturally, without pulling on the stick. Raise the flaps in quick steps to limit drag and adjust trim avoiding any steep climb, again to gain airspeed quickly.
  • Don't get scared if the aircraft drops a few feet while leving the deck, let it gain airspeed, I never crashed even with a fully loaded plane. If you pull on the stick now, a stall is right around the corner and, if you crash, the carrier bow will plow you.
  • Start veering to the right as soon as you leave the deck to move out of the carrier path and to allow for the next takeoff run. Join the squadron waiting pattern to allow grouping up before getting en route to the assigned mission.
  • At this point, you should be well above stall speed, flying at over 100 kts, and in full control of your aircraft even if heavily loaded.

Cdr. Blackburn added a personal touch from his vaste flying and instructing experience by moving the stick to the right slightly. According to him, this applied pressure on the right wheel helped counteract the monster torque unleashed by a 2,000hp, firewalled radial engine and had the airplane into a veering attitude immediately as soon as the deck was left.
I tried this latter trick, but, to me, it did not appear to make a big difference in CFS2, which cannot simulate every little real life nuisance. Right rudder plus additional right ailerons were a heavy compensation for engine torque, the sudden right-veering response of my aircraft at such low speed was a tad too much for my tastes. :icon_eek:

The above sequence, coupled with Jagdflieger's very good suggestion of using stock Flight Models for AI planes and a custom taylored FM for the human pilot, should do the trick.

Flap lift data is controlled by record #1001, "flight dynamics", of each aircraft *.air file, I usually increase flap lift in increments of 0.10 at a time, until I reach satisfactory results. The airfile editing utility AirEd can be found here in the CFS2-Utils section. Engine and propeller "power-scalar" are part of each aircraft.cfg file and, if not present, can be copied and pasted from another aircraft.cfg and then edited to taste.
One more thing to remember is that the aircraft.cfg file influences the user's aircraft only, while AI aircrafts are flown by the sim engine according to their airfile.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!
KH
:ernae:
 
Have his book

Although I have Blackburns book in my library ,I've yet to read it.
Sounds like that's now on my summer reading list.
Strangely enough the Corsair is one plane that takes off a carrier without much trouble,so does the Wildcat but the Hellcat gives me fit's.
Speaking of fits I had a total crash of CFS2 last night and had to uninstall it and reinstall,so now I'am rebuilding the whole sim.
 
Errata corrige

I am sorry, but I erroneously wrote earlier that flap lift can be edited in record #1001 of the airfile, while "flight_dynamics" is actually record #1101. Record #1001 deals with Moment of Inertia (MOI) values, another vital control to help AI planes behave correctly.

Please, forgive my faulty RAM......:icon_lol:

Cheers!
KH
:ernae:
 
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