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Christopher Columbus Day!

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One thing that has baffled me for a long time is that Leif Ericson discovered America. The holiday was originally Leif Ericson day. Where the heck did Columbus horn into it and steal all the credit and glory?
 
Neither Christopher nor Leif discovered the New World. There were people living here THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of years before either one of those Caucasians were born. From a purely scientific and historical stand point, the people who truly discovered the New World were of Asian descent as there were two major migrations of people into the New World. One migration saw people from the northern part of Asia travel across the Bering Land Bridge and into what is now North America. Before that even, people from the southern parts of Asia travel BY SEA into what is now South America and spread out up through Central America. Additionally, recent mitocondrial DNA testing on the indigineous peoples of North, Central and South America has found a third origin of early American peoples.....Eastern Spain! About 10,000 years ago some people from Eastern Spain came to the New World to buy some moccasins or something and decided to stay and hang out with the native people of this continent.

So, there should not be a US holiday celebrating Christopher Columbus's discovery of the New World. Nor should there be a holiday for the Vikings discovering the New World. Long before these two claim jumpers arrived....some estimates range as far back as 50,000 years...there were people here...a great many people who spoke a unknown number of languages, practiced an unknown number of religions, followed an unknown number of social patterns and rules.....all unknown now because the White Man pretty much destroyed every shred of the civilization that was thriving when they came here to this "newly" discovered land.

From the beginning of the 1800s to the beginning of the 1900s, nearly 90% of the North American native poplulation was wiped out...an estimated 9 million Native People killed for their land, their resources and because they would not shuffle off peacefully to some crappy corner of their once proud range and practice a religion that was being forced down their throats. And the history books call Hitler a maniacal murderer....but they call Abraham Lincoln a great President.

_________

Yeah, I am half Native American (Crow and Blackfoot from my father's side and Cherokee from my mother's side) and this supposed holiday really gets my blood boiling every year.

OBIO
 
I knew Obio would show up on this thread:jump:
I always called Indians Sibierian-Americans.
Humans are not indiginous to North America.
Hey, that's just the way I see it
 
And as far as the banks being closed today...well that sucks too! This stupid "holiday" is delaying a direct deposit that was supposed to have been in the bank on Saturday...now it won't hit until Tuesday. Currently, my bank account holds that stately sum of $2.12....and Deb and I have been craving Bob Evans biscuits and gravy for three days.

OBIO
 
Well, up here it's Thanksgiving Day. Don't worry to much about who was here first fellas, just be happy that we are here now. Gotta go pick some cranberries, it's turkey time!
 
Piglet said:
I knew Obio would show up on this thread:jump:
I always called Indians Sibierian-Americans.
Humans are not indiginous to North America.
Hey, that's just the way I see it
Click to expand...

Well, if you want to go far enough back, humans aren't indigenous to anywhere but Africa. Early humans migrated northward into Asia Minor and then Europe.

Others have claimed to have flown before the Wright Brothers, according to Bette Midler, Philippe de Brassiere did not invent the Bra, Otto Titzling did so. The point is that often times the real inventor, discoverer,or doer, is lost to history.

What Columbus did, would have been done by someone eventually. The genocides that followed would have still happened. I believe to erase Columbus day is to hide from what happened to the existing cultures, already living in the "New World."

Ignorance and greed drive genocide. We can't do much about greed. We can do something about ignorance. Rewriting history to make it "nicer" or further an agenda only makes ignorance permanent.

I say honor the man for what he did. Recognize what the White European culture has done to change the world, both good and bad. Let's use it to educate ourselves on history and not pretend it didn't happen.
 
If it were not for Columbus we wouldn't have a single indian casino to blow our money at. :USA-flag:
 
Terry said:
If it were not for Columbus we wouldn't have a single indian casino to blow our money at. :USA-flag:
Click to expand...

Well, that makes it alright then. Nothing like gambling in an Indian Casino....other than buying tax-free cigarettes on Indian Reservations and lying to the government about doing so.

OBIO
 
Piglet said:
I always called Indians Sibierian-Americans.
Humans are not indiginous to North America.
Hey, that's just the way I see it
Click to expand...


Funny you mention that.

When my Swedish penpal came over from Stockholm, she wanted to see our Heard museum in downtown Phoenix. We got there and she was so amazed. She had heard about this but wanted to see it herself.

Seems the exact same corn grinding tools, blankets with same colors and cloth weave patterns are in Sweden as well. The Navajo seemed to really get around. How they could get to Arizona from Stockholm is beyond me.

The theory is that the northern hemisphere was iced over, making it possible for people to migrate accross the polar cap.

Now, did they come here? Or did they go to Sweden? Are we surrounded by Swedes that have gambling casinos? :d


I think its a cool holiday myself. Good for the kids to know about the rich history of our cultures. Whats wrong with Holidays anyways? Gives us a day off to play.

:d
 
it's the popular thing to blame the white guy for every crappy thing that ever happened. well, if things were so great before we got here, then why don't everybody who doesn't like it, go back to the way things were before we arrived? they can stop wearing modern clothes, and living in clean modern conditions, stop using modern medicine, and go live in a tent somewhere, and use stone tools, and live off the land until they die at about 45 if they are lucky enough to live that long. most of the complainers couldn't survive for a month that way if they had too. that's the truth, face it or don't. and i'll give you another truth, too. hundreds of years ago a bunch of white people did some messed up stuff. it wasn't me, or anyone i ever met. it wasn't anybody in my family tree cause they weren't even here then. there aint a snowballs chance in hell i'm gonna feel bad or guilty about it.
 
cheezyflier said:
it's the popular thing to blame the white guy for every crappy thing that ever happened. well, if things were so great before we got here, then why don't everybody who doesn't like it, go back to the way things were before we arrived? they can stop wearing modern clothes, and living in clean modern conditions, stop using modern medicine, and go live in a tent somewhere, and use stone tools, and live off the land until they die at about 45 if they are lucky enough to live that long. most of the complainers couldn't survive for a month that way if they had too. that's the truth, face it or don't. and i'll give you another truth, too. hundreds of years ago a bunch of white people did some messed up stuff. it wasn't me, or anyone i ever met. it wasn't anybody in my family tree cause they weren't even here then. there aint a snowballs chance in hell i'm gonna feel bad or guilty about it.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
...To put it in a certain context in the times of Columbus, Cortez, and Pizzaro,....and other conquistadors that followed them,....they thought they were doing the right thing. However, it was pure greed. To enslave and conquer the Native Americans, and remove as much gold asap. They also brought diseases to the Caribbean Islands and mainland as well that pretty much wiped out many tribes. What they did was cruel, inhuman,.....and crude at best. Basically,...crimes against humanity.
Much like the whaling ship companies of the 18th and 19th centuries, all thought....."what's the big deal,.....there's plenty of whales out there for all,.....we're getting rich plus we're providing oil for the lamps and lubrication needed throughout the country." Thank heavens for the 'discovery' of petroleum. Well,...that's another story in itself......
 
brad kaste said:
...To put it in a certain context in the times of Columbus, Cortez, and Pizzaro,....and other conquistadors that followed them,....they thought they were doing the right thing. However, it was pure greed. To enslave and conquer the Native Americans, and remove as much gold asap. They also brought diseases to the Caribbean Islands and mainland as well that pretty much wiped out many tribes. What they did was cruel, inhuman,.....and crude at best. Basically,...crimes against humanity.
Much like the whaling ship companies of the 18th and 19th centuries, all thought....."what's the big deal,.....there's plenty of whales out there for all,.....we're getting rich plus we're providing oil for the lamps and lubrication needed throughout the country." Thank heavens for the 'discovery' of petroleum. Well,...that's another story in itself......
Click to expand...

I don't see it as greed, I see it as making a living. Not much different than the gold rush to California and Alaska.
I don't believe they had any bilological weapons labs in the 1400's therefore they had no idea the local population would contract diseases for which they had no immunity.
 
Hey Terry,...I do agree with you on a few points. For the whalers,...it was a making a living. Not greed. It employed many New Englanders during those times. And for sure,....the lack of immunity for the indigenous populations persons from the brought over diseases was not intentional. But I'm sure the early Conquistadors didn't lose much sleep over the native losses due to disease.
As far as the gold goes,....Cortez and Piazzro basically snatched the native gold artifacts. This is greed. Ceremonial and religious objects. It got melted down and then shipped back to Spain. In the Gold Rush of California,....that was dug out of the hill sides or from mines,....not taken from the local populace.
 
Whatever you choose to call today (in South Dakota the holiday name has been officially changed to Native American Day)......

......Be careful with letting the discussion get too political.
 
Oh and i thought it was Mon Day:isadizzy::icon_lol:
i think just no mail here today
and a couple of banks closed
other than that its just Monday
started out with my transmission failing this morning
had to get towed to the shop
just got worse from then
Happy Columbus day
and Monday
H
 
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