Combat Rate..?

C

cptroyce

Guest
I posted the following question on the Aerodrome forum, to see if I could get an "historical" prospective on what I and others can experience here in OFF. I received a reply, that really shows that OFF can and does model, to a great degree, WW1 aviation. I'll repost here as it may prove interesting to others as well.

Q. Does anyone know the statistic (if even available) as to how often the "typical" scout pilot or flight group would be engaged in combat? Either side?

I know the "17 hours" as the average life expectancy; I am just curious as to what the average pilot could expect on a typical mission.


A. I looked into this a bit using some logbooks from members of No. 1 and No. 4 Squadron AFC (to get a WF and Palestine comparison).

I discovered that there was no 'typical' combat experience. The number of sorties varied significantly from month to month, dependent I found, on the weather, offensives and enemy activity. Also, the unit's tactical role (which could change from month to month) greatly changed the frequency of combat-

Take Alex Lockley of No. 4 Squadron for example. In June 1918, he flew 41 sorties totalling 52 hours and 45 minutes in the air. He flew on 25 out of 30 days, and on 11 days, he was airborne more than once. On average then, in June 1918 Lockley did 1.36 sorties per day, lasting about an hour and a quarter each on average. In the following month however, he flew on substantially fewer occasions and for less time, spending just 34 hours and 35 minutes aloft during 25 flights. He flew on only 17 days of the month, flying multiple sorties on just 7 days. In July 1918 then, Lockley’s average was 0.8 patrols per day, and he had almost as many days on the ground (fourteen) as he did in the air (seventeen).

Moreover, Lockley went SIX weeks without getting into a dogfight (with other scouts)- but his unit was mainly tasked with ground attack at the time, so that might not be surprising. Then, in an instant his flight was set upon by a couple of dozen Fokkers and he was nearly killed-

My conclusion is that the life of the WW1 aviator was unpredictable, and varied widely. I also think that this led to the flying corps' unique stress- whereas infantrymen saw their service in terms of reasonably predictable rotations through the trench lines, the pilot's exposure to danger fluctuated wildly each day.

Michael Molkentin



Royce
 
It would appear that in reality the air-war was a giant haystack, and the participants rather like needles.

I used no aids for twelve hours and saw no enemy. The first time I used them (labels) I saw a whole bunch of 2-seaters coming in low less than a mile from me. Even when close I could hardly make them out against the ground clutter (they were at approx 500ft, I was at 3000ft).

Realistic? It sure feels like it. Most any other sim/game I can think of one would be beset by attackers constantly. A different kind of 'yawn'.

OFF has the magic, not seen by me since RB2-3D. :)
 
I agree 100% with this Cappy. No doubt there is need for some variation which you get in OFF. For the Germans, because they were mostly defensive other than escort, it was different I am sure. Judging by the book Bloody April...Black September, they were fewer, and more active in combat.

So for the British Airmen in a scout, it wasn't all about dogfighting. But for the Germansd, even though they practiced Balloon Busting, Strafing, and other scout activities, they left most of the non-aircombat duties to other squadron types. Hence the change of Schustas to Schlastas.

Makes sense.

And yes, Siggi, the real experience of OFF lies in turning off all of the caveats of modern computers like radar, name tags, target cones... etc.

On my 24", it's big enough now that I can see specs on the horizon, and see planes moving below me. It makes it more immersive as far as I am concerned, rather than an XBox360 shoot 'em up. You against the worlds... you said it best... yawn!

OvS
 
OFF also models the intense periods of activity such as Bloody April and the lulls based on an Order Of Battles system and is based on historical data - within the confines of the 'sim' of course....

I have tried to reflect this aspect as accurately as possible throughout the western front regions of Flanders Marne Verdun and Alsace.

Your 17 hours is definitely dependent on when you enlist and where you enlist and in what squad!

WM
 
WM- >> ..based on an Order Of Battles system and is based on historical data<<

Done a great kob with this! I remember in RB which I enjoyed for years, it was so predictable, that as soon as I saw the mission to be flown, I could know almost to the minute when and how the comnbat would ensue. After awhile I looked away when the mission was generated so I wouldn't know what to expect.

With OFF however, the unpredictability and air activity, no matter what the mission type, always leaves me guessing..will I see an EA? Will he see me? Will we engage? Pass? etc.

For myself, that "historical" immersive factor is terrific!:ernae:

Regards,
Royce
 
Hi, OvS
With a 24" monitor, and a high enough resolution to recognise those far away specs/planes: what graphic cards would you (or anyone knowing) recommend to make it worth wile?
 
Using data from the book by Walter M. Pieters, 'Above Flander's fields', we can extract some statistical information on Belgian fighter pilots operating in the Belgian sector of the Western Front to the north of Ypres:

For the period 1915-1917 they flew a total of 11,125 combat patrols, engaged in 2,269 combats, and made 201 claims (of which 108 were confirmed): that is approximately one confirmed claim for every 103 combat patrols, or one claim (unconfirmed) per 55 combat patrols, or one combat for every 4.9 combat patrols.

Interestingly, if we then divide the figures by year, there is one combat for every 2.8 combat patrols in 1915 (713 patrols, 258 combats), one combat for every 4.2 patrols in 1916 (1566 patrols, 376 combats), one combat for every 4.4 patrols in 1917 (3338 patrols, 759 combats), ending with one combat for every 6.3 patrols in 1918 (5508 patrols, 876 combats).

If we look at 'ace' pilots: from the top Belgian aces (but not including Willy Coppens, as the number of balloons that he shot down skews the figures) we find that Jan Olieslagers (22 claims, 6 confirmed, 97 combats, 518 combat patrols), Andrede Moulemeester (30 claims, 11 confirmed, 185 combats, 511 combat patrols), and Fernand Jacquet (16 claims, 7 confirmed, 124 combats, 328 combat patrols), totals combined, flew on 1357 combat patrols, engaged in 406 combats, and made 68 claims (of which 24 were confirmed). That is approx. one confirmed claim for every 57 combat patrols, or approx. one claim (unconfirmed) for every 20 combat patrols, or one combat for every 3.3 combat patrols.


Bletchley
 
Thanks Bletchley for that research. For the sectors you looked at, it seems around 20% t0 30+% combat expectancy. Higher then was posted above. Seems that the variance throughout the War and through various sectors was large.

My initial query was based upon what I was seeing in OFF, and I wondered as to the historical accuracy. So once again, I think Winder and the team working on this aspect, have done an excellent job of modeling this.

Regards,
Royce
 
I think 'combat' was perhaps rather loosely defined at the time. I suspect that sighting an enemy 2-seater and chasing it back across the lines, even though no shots were fired would have been accepted as a combat. This is suggested by the very low proportion of claims to combats, which indicates that a very large proportion of combats were inconclusive - something that no sim. has ever been very good at reproducing, as AI pilots have never been very good at self-preservation and rarely , if ever, run away on sight. I would guess that the best way to reproduce this in OFF is to fly without 'radar', as you then don't see many of the other a/c around you (the ones that got away...).

Bletchley
 
Good stuff.

Yes, the stats quoted above for 'combat seen versus missions flown' seems to be well replicated in OFF, from my experience so far.
 
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