dogfighting w/ 2-seaters

A

andqui

Guest
I've noticed that the two seater AI seems very reluctant to mix it up with enemy aircraft. This is especially problematic with aircraft such as the F.E.2b. When I tell my wingies to attack a target, there's no reaction, and they keep staying with me in formation. Would it be to difficult to give two seaters like this some dogfighting AI, so they try and position themselves behind an E/A so the gunner can shoot them down.

I'm doing a fighter campaign with the F.E.2b, and it's typically me against the world as my wingmates fly slow lazy circles instead of actively seeking out targets like they would. I've tried getting them to attack two-seaters as wel as scouts, but nothing happens.

The planes I've definately noticed this with are the Strutter and the F.E.2b. Haven't flown enough in the other two seaters to tell.

Is anyone else having this problem? If I'm flying a fighter campaign, it would be nice to have wingmates who fight.
 
andqui said:
Is anyone else having this problem? If I'm flying a fighter campaign, it would be nice to have wingmates who fight.
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Yup, I have the same problem in the FE2 (which I fly almost exclusively) and have seen in it Strutters (which I've escorted in FE2s).

I always fly as a sergeant and let the AI lead the formation, so nobody follows me to begin with. Not even my so-called wingman, who always forms up on the flight leader like I don't exist, and refuses to acknowledge any command I give him. Of course, he almost always out-ranks me, but I though the whole point of having a wingman was to have 1 guy to guard your back. I usually fly with 20 Sqd, which is rated as "good" and has an "offensive" posture.

So much for background. Here's how things play out for me, even in 1.2

My AI Fee squaddies do their absolute best to avoid all contact with H/A. They never attack any H/A even when they have both altitude (which is rare) and numbers (which is about 50% of the time) on their side. If they are above the H/A, they just fly along their waypoints ignoring the H/A. If the H/A are co-alt or above us (usually the case), they turn directly away from them (whichever direction that is, including deeper into Hunland) and dive for the deck. This occurs the instant the H/A appear on the radar at max range, while they're still unidentifed to me. When the H/A catch them (which usually happens), they just keep going straight ahead without trying to fight or dodge bullets, so get shot down in droves.

My AI Fee squaddies also refuse to carry out ground attack missions. Assuming they haven't run away before reaching the target area (which only happens in 1916 when enemy activity is low), they abort their attack run several miles short of the target and run straight home.

We we escort Strutters, it's the same story. Both Fees and Strutters immediately dive away at the 1st sight of an unidentified higher dot in the distance. This despite the Fees and Strutters both being fairly decent at ACM, and having combined numbers rather greater than the H/A.

I haven't tried other Crumpet 2-seaters, because it hadn't occurred to me that different ones might act differently. 20 Sqd eventually switches to Brisfits so I think I'll start a new pilot at that time period and see if they do any better. I have, however, noticed the Roland AI pilots press on pretty much regardless in my 1 hop with them so far.
 
if this would be looked into by the dev's I would tremendously appreciate it- this problem stops me from being able to fly these planes in the campaign.
 
Two missions ago my camel flight was attacked by a bunch of Albatros DVs and were joined pretty sharpish by some Bristol fighters.

FE2s fly as both bombers and fighters. Siggi, you'l know better than I, since I've only flown a few days as an FE pilot, but there may be a difference between joining a fighter 2-seater squadron and a bomber squadron.
 
Maeran said:
FE2s fly as both bombers and fighters. Siggi, you'l know better than I, since I've only flown a few days as an FE pilot, but there may be a difference between joining a fighter 2-seater squadron and a bomber squadron.
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If you pick "fighter" when creating a pilot, you get a different list of squadrons than if you pick "bomber". I haven't made a complete survey, but it appears to me that there aren't any bomber squadrons that fly Fees, only fighter squadrons. I think all the Brit bomber squadrons fly only Strutters, Quirks, and Harry Tates. Could be wrong on that, though.

In any case, I'm picking off the "fighter list", so have to shuffle through a bunch of Noop, DH2, Pup, and Camel outfits before I find good ol' 20 Squadron and their Fees.
 
I've been through them all (I was making a spreadsheet to randomly assign myself a squadron. Trouble is; I always rejected the result until it got me the result I wanted. So much for chance). I imagine that most of us go for fighter squadrons. I did once do a stint in a BE2 squadron, but that's plain masochistic (especially that scramble mission I did).

6, 12, 18, 25 and 57 RFC are bomber FE2 squadrons.

And I'm terribly sorry. I called you Siggi. My only excuse is that I'm just back from the pub.
 
We would need to make them type "fighter bomber" then they zoom around like agile fighters so equally bad.
Also if they are not level bombers they dive bomb targets.

Probably need a fair bit of work to make them behave differently.
 
Polovski said:
We would need to make them type "fighter bomber" then they zoom around like agile fighters so equally bad.
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I dunno, the FE2 really was a fighter. Or strictly speaking, it was ahead of its time, being a multi-role aircraft. Fighter, bomber, nightfighter, night bomber, recon. You name it, it did it.

But anyway, the Fee wasn't a hopeless sitting duck. It was largely responsible for ending the Fokker Scourge and held its own well into 1917. It's quite maneuverable horizontally in the game, provided you don't lose too much speed, although it's pathetic in the vertical. It doesn't have to have sparkling maneuverability, though, because it's got pivot guns on both ends, which allows it to make up for angles it can't get.

Maybe you could make 2 FM/AI combos for it? A fighter/jabo one for the fighter squadrons and a bomber one for the bomber squadrons? But either way, it needs to have more than the 1 answer it currently has to a tactical question. All it does now is dive away.
 
Bullethead said:
I dunno, the FE2 really was a fighter...
But anyway, the Fee wasn't a hopeless sitting duck.
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Agree with you there. I have many RFC combat record books and combat reports in which Fee pilots describe attacking German planes--i.e., initiating combat with scouts, not just shooting back when attacked. Case in point, a well-know but oft-misunderstood combat 6 July 1917: Richthofen approached an FE2d from behind that turned and attacked him from head on. (MvR was shot during this engagement but not by A6512.)

I'd really like to see the Fees in a defensive circle! Actually, I'd really like to even see a Fee--or any two-seater, for that matter. 10 campaign missions in and I haven't seen a two-seater anywhere.
 
Yep not disagreeing, I'm merely pointing out a fact of how CFS3 works. Fighter bombers tend to fly very aggressively and Fe2 did look a little odd when set as such.
 
Hello,
i remember those RE.8 bombers chasing my poor Albatros scout all over the skies in phase1 lol

However it seems AI scouts (own wingmen) do attack when you mark a target for them, a flying one, that is. However telling your wingmen to attack ground targets they will be reluctant to say at least, be it scouts or bombers. Does the "attack my target" order really work for attacking ground targets ?

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish
 
Maeran said:
Two missions ago my camel flight was attacked by a bunch of Albatros DVs and were joined pretty sharpish by some Bristol fighters.
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I started another pilot in 20 Squadron, this time in October 1917 when we have Brisfits instead of Fees. It's a totally different world, AI-wise. I just got back (barely) from an OP over Douai. There must have been at least 20 Albatri there, and there were just 3 of us. By my AI compadres showed no hesitation in diving into the brown of them and getting all tangled up.

JEEZ LOUISE!!! Not only did they attack, but they got fixated on particular targets, apparently, because they allowed themselves to get dragged right down to the deck over the airfield. They dove so quickly that I (habituated to nonaggressive Fee pilots) didn't see them go. By the time I realized what was happening, half the entire Hun airforce was between us. Really, I'm glad I didn't follow them--the last place I want to be is treetop level at Douai under a red canvas overcast :D. So I danced on the heads of the higher Huns, trying to keep them occupied, but eventually even that got too hot for me, and I had to leave. I found out in the replay that both my droogs had been shot down (no surprise there) but they took quite a few Huns with them. Surely they're in Valhalla now :friday:

To say that this was a big change from 20 Squadron's behaviour while on Fees would be an understatement. These Brisfit drivers are perhaps a bit TOO aggressive, even. The lesson learned here is that it's the plane, not the pilot ;)
 
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