Engine start?

O

OldCrow

Charter Member
Hey all, is there a way in campaign mode to have your engines running on the runway(and not having to start them) when your mission begins?
I've never liked how you are sitting there, half your flight is airborne, the other half sitting there engines running and you haven't even started yours yet. Not like it really should be,

Also, it might cure the problem(especially with twin-engine jets) when the 2 last wingmen collide on some runways while your trying to get your engines started.

Escort missions start you in the air, so there's a way to do it, does anyone know how or where to edit this?
 
Hi Old Crow,

CFS3 is remarkable in the amount of stuff that CAN be tweaked but can't think how to do this. With a stand-alone install for campaign play, you could change all the airbase objects so there are no takeoff positions, then your campaign might start with ALL your flight airborne over the airfield. IIRC there are some BoB era airbases in ETO which are so short that most of your flight is airborne at the start of the campaign mission when your campaign squadron is assigned to that airfield. But there are always one or two on the ground.

Alternatively you could edit the takeoff positions (can't remember the name for them) in the object xmls so there is only ONE, in which case in campaign play only you would be on the ground and would need to start your engine; the rest of the flight would be airborne above you.

But can't think how you could start the campaign mission on the ground with your engine running :isadizzy:
 
Daiwilletti said:
Hi Old Crow,

CFS3 is remarkable in the amount of stuff that CAN be tweaked but can't think how to do this. With a stand-alone install for campaign play, you could change all the airbase objects so there are no takeoff positions, then your campaign might start with ALL your flight airborne over the airfield. IIRC there are some BoB era airbases in ETO which are so short that most of your flight is airborne at the start of the campaign mission when your campaign squadron is assigned to that airfield. But there are always one or two on the ground.

Alternatively you could edit the takeoff positions (can't remember the name for them) in the object xmls so there is only ONE, in which case in campaign play only you would be on the ground and would need to start your engine; the rest of the flight would be airborne above you.

But can't think how you could start the campaign mission on the ground with your engine running :isadizzy:
Click to expand...
Thanks Daiwilletti, I guess what it is that I need to modify is the object xmls. Not something I'm familiar with.

I'm curious becuase the escort missions start you over another airfiled, airborne. I was hoping there was a way to modify the missions themselves maybe. I wouldn't know where to start since I can't find them in the campaign. Even starting over my own base would be better. hmmmm.
 
.bat files, hot keys and Alt+Tab

OldCrow said:
Thanks Daiwilletti, I guess what it is that I need to modify is the object xmls. Not something I'm familiar with.

I'm curious because the escort missions start you over another airfiled, airborne. I was hoping there was a way to modify the missions themselves maybe. I wouldn't know where to start since I can't find them in the campaign. Even starting over my own base would be better. hmmmm.
Click to expand...

Well modifying the missions themselves is I think what started Winding Man on his journey with his Scenery Manager and then the OFF interface. The campaign mission could I suppose be modified by .bat files. All that is done invisibly and seamlessly I presume in OFF. The location of the campaign file is under your Application Data pathway where your configoverrides and uisel settings are located. In there is a folder called "Missions". In there is a _mission.xml file.

As a guess I would think it is generated/updated every time you select a QC mission or a campaign mission. I presume it is not needed with a scripted mission. So once you've flown a campaign escort mission, open the _mission.xml file, and see if you can spot how it is scripted so as to get your flight starting airborne.

I've always wanted to set up a .bat file to run once I've selected a campaign mission. In the bat file I'd search within the _mission.xml file for the "skill" parameter, and upgrade in all cases to "Skill="3"", so as to make the game more exciting. The only trick is how to activate the .bat file, with the cfs3.exe running. Its always a bit problematic swapping between screens once the game engine is running. Its become a bit easier to do with multi core computers, but it was hard with single core. And its still not 100%, sometimes pressing Alt+tab allows you to drop out of the CFS3 interface, sometimes it doesn't work. I wonder if you could set up a hotkey in the game, how does the FRAPS F9 key work?

Anyway back to modifying the _mission.xml, it should be possible to set up a .bat file with the ability to swap out the relevant part of the first waypoint information, so that the player flight starts in the air. You'd need to leave the original Latitude and Longitude information, just modify the takeoff location - perhaps by adding "Alt="500"". I did not go into this before, because it all seems a bit complicated although I am sure some of our gurus who set up .bat files for ETO could write something workable. The problem being how to reliably run the .bat file once you've selected the campaign mission and gone to the "campaign mission briefing" screen?

Note you would need to go to the mission briefing screen so that the game engine would update/regenerate the new _mission.xml information.

Maybe the hotkey is the answer. Anybody know where in the computer system the information about triggering things like FRAPS is stored? A hotkey would be more reliable than Alt+Tab, for the reasons above.

Just some wild and loose thoughts generated off the cuff - nothing polished here so don't nobody climb into this :icon_lol:
 
I've always wanted to set up a .bat file to run once I've selected a campaign mission. In the bat file I'd search within the _mission.xml file for the "skill" parameter, and upgrade in all cases to "Skill="3"", so as to make the game more exciting. The only trick is how to activate the .bat file, with the cfs3.exe running. Its always a bit problematic swapping between screens once the game engine is running. Its become a bit easier to do with multi core computers, but it was hard with single core. And its still not 100%, sometimes pressing Alt+tab allows you to drop out of the CFS3 interface, sometimes it doesn't work. I wonder if you could set up a hotkey in the game, how does the FRAPS F9 key work?

Anyway back to modifying the _mission.xml, it should be possible to set up a .bat file with the ability to swap out the relevant part of the first waypoint information, so that the player flight starts in the air. You'd need to leave the original Latitude and Longitude information, just modify the takeoff location - perhaps by adding "Alt="500"". I did not go into this before, because it all seems a bit complicated although I am sure some of our gurus who set up .bat files for ETO could write something workable. The problem being how to reliably run the .bat file once you've selected the campaign mission and gone to the "campaign mission briefing" screen?

Note you would need to go to the mission briefing screen so that the game engine would update/regenerate the new _mission.xml information.

Maybe the hotkey is the answer. Anybody know where in the computer system the information about triggering things like FRAPS is stored? A hotkey would be more reliable than Alt+Tab, for the reasons above.
Click to expand...

Would the use of an external proggy such as the one discussed in this thread be the answer David?

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?76468-Running-external-sounds&highlight=hotkey
 
Thanks guys, I doubt i'm capable of that much complexity. I was hoping it was a simple as changing a few lines and it'd be done. LOL, of course it isn't.
 
Hi Old Crow, I think the Hotkey option certainly is promising and could do what you want.

I've managed to get about halfway there using just the hotkey, without a .bat file running within the hotkey script.

For example, after installing the hotkey proggy Clive mentions above in the thread, I put in a new hotkey onto the desktop containing

"#M::Edit C:\Documents and Settings\David\Application Data\Microsoft\Combat Flight Simulator 3.0\Missions\_mission.xml"

This creates windows+M as a hotkey that opens the _mission.xml file for editing. The trick is to do it once you've gone to the campaign briefing screen after selecting the desired campaign mission.

So once the hotkey is set up, open an existing or new campaign, select a campaign mission (eg. "anti_ship" which is pretty much default in stock campaign). Then go through to the Briefing screen.

Then hit Windows +M. Then you have to go out of the CFS3 window by going Alt+tab. As explained earlier, this is sometimes problematic and is easier on multi core PCs. Anyway if you do get out of the cfs3 window, you will find the _mission.xml file open before you.

To achieve OldCrow's starting the campaign mission in flight, the key waypoint parameters to edit are (for the player flight, not the bomber flight):

<Waypoint Type="turn" Speed="88" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N52*37'51.8011"" Lon="E0*54'33.6649"" Alt="500.00"/>

The default parameters were type="takeoff", speed="0" and alt="0". Once the _mission.xml file is saved (it does not need to be closed) you can simply select the CFS3 window with your mouse and go fly your mission. You should start with your formation, at 500 feet above the runway.

Actually I haven't tested it, what I've been trying to do is run a script change for the skill="1" parameter. Thus far I've got thehotkey to open the xml file, but no go sequentially through the keystrokes to find and replace text.

But even simply opening the _mission.xml file using a hotkey is a great start and allows easy tweaking of campaign missions before the sortie :gameoff:

If there's any interest I can upload more detailed instructions. It would be great if someone knew how to further edit script within the hotkey command once the xml file is opened, so its all done with Windows +M. My attempt (which doesn't work) is tacked onto the above script and goes:
"send {^h} skill="1", {tab} skill="3", {tab 4} {enter} {^s}
exitapp"

Anyone see where I've gone wrong? The foregoing sequence seeks to open the Find and Replace window in notepad, and enter the parameters to be found and replaced (in this case skill=1), then the file saved and exited.

D
 
This is very promising indeed! If you can figure out how to edit files by just a hotkey, there are quite a few possibilities that could open up!
 
Daiwilletti said:
Hi Old Crow, I think the Hotkey option certainly is promising and could do what you want.

I've managed to get about halfway there using just the hotkey, without a .bat file running within the hotkey script.

For example, after installing the hotkey proggy Clive mentions above in the thread, I put in a new hotkey onto the desktop containing

"#M::Edit C:\Documents and Settings\David\Application Data\Microsoft\Combat Flight Simulator 3.0\Missions\_mission.xml"

This creates windows+M as a hotkey that opens the _mission.xml file for editing. The trick is to do it once you've gone to the campaign briefing screen after selecting the desired campaign mission.

So once the hotkey is set up, open an existing or new campaign, select a campaign mission (eg. "anti_ship" which is pretty much default in stock campaign). Then go through to the Briefing screen.

Then hit Windows +M. Then you have to go out of the CFS3 window by going Alt+tab. As explained earlier, this is sometimes problematic and is easier on multi core PCs. Anyway if you do get out of the cfs3 window, you will find the _mission.xml file open before you.

To achieve OldCrow's starting the campaign mission in flight, the key waypoint parameters to edit are (for the player flight, not the bomber flight):

<Waypoint Type="turn" Speed="88" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N52*37'51.8011"" Lon="E0*54'33.6649"" Alt="500.00"/>

The default parameters were type="takeoff", speed="0" and alt="0". Once the _mission.xml file is saved (it does not need to be closed) you can simply select the CFS3 window with your mouse and go fly your mission. You should start with your formation, at 500 feet above the runway.

Actually I haven't tested it, what I've been trying to do is run a script change for the skill="1" parameter. Thus far I've got thehotkey to open the xml file, but no go sequentially through the keystrokes to find and replace text.

But even simply opening the _mission.xml file using a hotkey is a great start and allows easy tweaking of campaign missions before the sortie :gameoff:

If there's any interest I can upload more detailed instructions. It would be great if someone knew how to further edit script within the hotkey command once the xml file is opened, so its all done with Windows +M. My attempt (which doesn't work) is tacked onto the above script and goes:
"send {^h} skill="1", {tab} skill="3", {tab 4} {enter} {^s}
exitapp"

Anyone see where I've gone wrong? The foregoing sequence seeks to open the Find and Replace window in notepad, and enter the parameters to be found and replaced (in this case skill=1), then the file saved and exited.

D
Click to expand...
That's pretty amazing. I'm going to tey it out.
 
So far it works great. I just leave the "missions" folder open on the desktop. Still haven't gotten to the Hotkey deal, not sure It's needed really.

Also, I notice "In Game" if you click the options tab and then Alt+Tab it will drop to desktop no problem.

The hardest thing is to open the mission file and edit it everytime.

Thanks again. Let me know how you can make it easier. :salute:
 
OldCrow said:
I just leave the "missions" folder open on the desktop. Still haven't gotten to the Hotkey deal, not sure It's needed really.

:salute:
Click to expand...

Hi Old Crow, I think you are right :isadizzy:. Until I spend a bit of time and get a useful script working to do the edit with one key, it would be far simpler to just have a shortcut on the desktop pointing to the install's _mission.xml file. Then dropping out using Alt+Tab.

Actually I've come frustrating close to getting the script to work. But then I confused which file I was using (had two variants on the desktop), made some edits and now back to square one - not sure what was working.

BTW, did those edits achieve what you wanted? Did you get the flight appearing over the airbase at the start of the campaign mission? it would be useful to know so that this thread is available for future reference.

:ernae:
 
Daiwilletti said:
Hi Old Crow, I think you are right :isadizzy:. Until I spend a bit of time and get a useful script working to do the edit with one key, it would be far simpler to just have a shortcut on the desktop pointing to the install's _mission.xml file. Then dropping out using Alt+Tab.

Actually I've come frustrating close to getting the script to work. But then I confused which file I was using (had two variants on the desktop), made some edits and now back to square one - not sure what was working.

BTW, did those edits achieve what you wanted? Did you get the flight appearing over the airbase at the start of the campaign mission? it would be useful to know so that this thread is available for future reference.

:ernae:
Click to expand...
OH YEAH! It worked perfectly!
I'm not sure on the numbers you posted. <Waypoint Type="turn" Speed="88" IsWarpable="y" IsVisible="y" Lat="N52*37'51.8011"" Lon="E0*54'33.6649"" Alt="500.00"/>

It seems to be a different measurement than mph/knots and feet. No problem though, I have been tinkering with them. The one funny thing is sometimes it puts my flight right inside the escort flight, pretty exciting...but no mid-air collisions yet.:isadizzy:

Again, this did exactly what I hoped for.
 
Hi OldCrow,

good to hear it works! The speed is a CFS3 quirk - measured in m/s of all things. Altitude may be metres, but I would have thought it was feet? A bit of an odd mismatch otherwise - standard cruising altutde for fighter_bombers in a camapign mission is 5000 feet.

As for the escort flight, there is a standard pattern at the start of the campaign mission. I can't remember if it is the balance of your flight or the escort flight, but one set of aircraft appears right above the runway at the start of the mission as you boot to the takeoff screen.

Hence when you edit altitude and speed and type, it might also be worth offsetting your lat. or long. a bit?
 
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