Flogging old payware

H

hinch

Guest
I have a huge amount of FS2004 payware on my hard drive that I no longer require on my new computer.

I have read through most of the EULAs and come up with a list I'm pretty sure I can sell-on - just like I found ebay a goldmine for payware when FSX came out.

Is anyone sure about the legalities of this and I suppose more the point, does anyone want a gig of top stuff for a few quid? :woot:

If it helps I'm a student and I would really like some dinner tonight :help:
 
I may be a bit conservative in this view, the reselling payware just smacks of piracy to me. You will be making money off of someone else's work. It's like you buy a CD, make copies of it, then sell those copies....totally illegal. I can't see how you selling payware sim items would be any different.

OBIO
 
I may be a bit conservative in this view, the reselling payware just smacks of piracy to me. You will be making money off of someone else's work. It's like you buy a CD, make copies of it, then sell those copies....totally illegal. I can't see how you selling payware sim items would be any different.

OBIO

I don't mean selling many copies, I want rid of it - like an old jumper. If not, do you consider all second hand game/DVD/music stores pirates too?
 
Okay...that is a fish of another color then. Reselling the payware items that you have is okay......I was thinking that you were going to sell many copies of them.

OBIO
 
Okay...that is a fish of another color then. Reselling the payware items that you have is okay......I was thinking that you were going to sell many copies of them.

OBIO

Noo noo, I and a few members of another community actively prowled ebay reporting sellers who had compiled CDs of freeware.

Second hand download products anyone?
 
The big problem is if you sell on your downloaded payware, how can you prove to the owner that you don't still backup copies elsewhere? Remember you don't own the software, only the license to use it. To be honest, you are in extremely dodgy territory and I'd leave well alone. ;)
 
The big problem is if you sell on your downloaded payware, how can you prove to the owner that you don't still backup copies elsewhere? Remember you don't own the software, only the license to use it. To be honest, you are in extremely dodgy territory and I'd leave well alone. ;)

I think this is well said. It's very much on the verge, perhaps beyond...Just my two cents:If this was my site I would consider banning you altogether, as you are robbing payware developers of sales.

:kilroy:

Cees
 
The best way to handle this, whether the product is on media or downloaded, is to ask the developers/sellers of the product in question if they consider it acceptable for a buyer to sell the product if they're not using it anymore. I suspect I know the answer that most of them will give but there may be some exceptions.

With that said, I will also add that here at Sim-Outhouse we don't permit or condone the sale of no longer used downloaded products due to concerns about piracy. There isn't anyway to guarantee that the seller isn't keeping a copy of it for his/her self. Not saying that everyone wanting to thin their shelves out is out to do that, but there are always a few bad apples that spoil the rest of the barrel.
 
Understandable opinions, it seems a pretty grey area then.

If I had a guarantee of not keeping it it would certainly be the fact I sold FS2004 on ebay!

This is what made me think about it, I've sold off my CD add-ons afterall.

If this was my site I would consider banning you altogether, as you are robbing payware developers of sales.

- I was asking. I haven't actually sold any downloaded software.
 
Understandable opinions, it seems a pretty grey area then.

Actually it's pretty clear. When you download a product you pay for a license to use that product, you cannot just pass that license on to someone else to make some money. It you pass on that software, it comes under the distrubution category as the original owner of the software makes no money from their work. I think it's fair to say you'll be wide open to a lawsuit.

Technically it's the same for CD software.
 
Actually it's pretty clear. When you download a product you pay for a license to use that product, you cannot just pass that license on to someone else to make some money. It you pass on that software, it comes under the distrubution category as the original owner of the software makes no money from their work. I think it's fair to say you'll be wide open to a lawsuit.

Technically it's the same for CD software.

It's never all that clear. "distibution" can/does imply making copies to distibute to a larger market and that is certainly illegal. Passing on the original, licensed copy is not the same as making multiple copies to distribute freely or sell for profit. In the matter of "transfer of a license" it gets considerably more varied. As much as it's a pain to read the legal gobbledygook in the EULA you can find a lot of variance. For example, this is the relevant part of the EULA of CFS3:

· Software Transfer. The initial licensee of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may make a one-time permanent transfer of this EULA and SOFTWARE PRODUCT only directly to an end user. This transfer must include all of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (including all component parts, the media and printed materials, any upgrades, this EULA, and, if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity). Such transfer may not be by way of consignment or any other indirect transfer. The transferee of such one-time transfer must agree to comply with the terms of this EULA, including the obligation not to further transfer this EULA and SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

So in this case Microsoft states it's ok for the original purchaser to
'transfer' the license and no prohibition is placed on the seller's right to recover the original cost in the transfer.

The reason you don't see stores selling used software comes from this part of the above: Such transfer may not be by way of consignment or any other indirect transfer. That would not be the "initial licensee" making a one-time transfer...

As I said, each program EULA is different. Some software apparently even allowed (when it was new) rental - usually types that could not be 'copied' onto a system but required an original card, disk or other media but that's not the issue here. If the EULA prohibits any transfer and/or resale then that is that. If the EULA reads like the CFS3 one, it can be transferred ONCE and then the onus is on the new licensee to abide by the one-time-only rule. The onus is also on the original licensee to remove the software from his comuter(s) to remain 'legal'.

In the case (again, Micrososft) of an OEM version of Windows pre-installed on a computer the EULA states:
16. TRANSFER TO A THIRD PARTY. You may transfer the software directly to a third party only with the licensed device. You may not keep any copies of the software or any earlier version. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software. The transfer must include the Certificate of Authenticity label.
So I can sell my 'device' with Vista installed as long as all the bits go with it and none stay behind for my use.

If there is no included EULA then the license agreement is most likely posted on the vendor's website or otherwise available. Different companies take different approaches so it is a case of **** (RTFA?) and take it seriously.

Rob

PS. Downloaded software can be very different than 'hard media' products. Since there is no "original" (even OEM software requires a hard copy in most cases) it's all in what the EULA says. Bear in mind that there are people who do check sites for illegal distribution/sale/resale so if you can't prove it's legal to pass it onward it should be considered 'illegal'.

Note: in hinch's original post he said:
I have read through most of the EULAs and come up with a list I'm pretty sure I can sell-on
so it's pretty clear he is aware of the differences
 
I notice in newer Aerosoft installers is strictly states that transfer of the license is prohibited.

However, in old FS2004 installers it does not :hand:
 
Our local Hastings advertises that they have USED cds, dvds, and games for PC, XBox, Nintendo, PS, etc!!!!! My son and I have bought and sold numerous games there.

Go figure........

Kevin
 
There is no universal rule. If the entire world was painted with the same brush it would be a boring place. Each developer has the right to choose how he wants his rights protected and what rights he allows. That's the purpose of the EULA ( or the equivalent in a readme.) Of course those who have the most fun are the lawyers but we WON'T go there!

In essence it's is pretty simple. If the license says you can, you can (with conditions?). If it says you can't, don't. If it's not mentioned you can always call or email and ask. (better to spend 10 minutes writing an email and be told "NO' than to be handed a summons to appear)

Weins, that used to be common and still happens. Some places take a chance, some just don't read the rules and some only resell what they are allowed. Personally, I have bought used software too... and read the EULA before I handed over the cash. It's a pain when you ask for support and get transferred to the legal dept.
 
I would assume nobody would be foolish enough to assume they are entitled to support or updates of any kind when they purchase used software.Also the seller isn't making any money on reselling unused software, he's merely trying to recoup some of the original investment from software he can no longer use. I have no doubt the software writers would be more than willing to charge him AGAIN for the same software that will run on his new sim. I also think that the second purchaser may buy NEW software from the developer if he likes the second hand product, but thats just my opinion.
 
Our local Hastings advertises that they have USED cds, dvds, and games for PC, XBox, Nintendo, PS, etc!!!!! My son and I have bought and sold numerous games there.

Go figure........

Kevin

Same in Sydney, both "Game" and EB Games" stores will trade in games, mainly console and even have special loyalty cards for kids who buy and trade a lot of games, My daughter has one.

I could be wrong but I am sure game distributors would have come down hard if they were not allowed to do so. I have seen this debated in a few forums now and it seems that some countries do not recognise the end user licenses either and have other statutes covering purchases.

That is one reason I do not like downloaded software, you may not have the same rights as someons who buys the same program on a hard pressed disk.

It really is a shame it has come to this where if you purchase software you either do not like or want anymore and can not resell it easily. But I suppose there is such a thing as piracy and it effects us all including the inocent who just want to sell unwanted software.

Just my two cents, no offence to any other views and I do respect developers rights here about not being able to resell.

Cheers MarkL
 
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