Flying Issues...

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BoeingB17

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Hello:wavey:
I downloaded a USAF C-54 4 engine transport. But I'm having a very hard time flying it.:isadizzy: It won't take off quick enough, I am about 2 runway lengths past the base runway before the wheels leave the ground. And it is almost imposible to gain any signifigant ammount of altitude! How should I go about flying something this big? I've had similar problems with other large aircraft before. After a few minutes I usualy stall out and crash.:banghead:
Thanks in advance and happy holidays!:friday:
 
BoeingB17 said:
Hello:wavey:
I downloaded a USAF C-54 4 engine transport. But I'm having a very hard time flying it.:isadizzy: It won't take off quick enough, I am about 2 runway lengths past the base runway before the wheels leave the ground. And it is almost imposible to gain any signifigant ammount of altitude! How should I go about flying something this big? I've had similar problems with other large aircraft before. After a few minutes I usualy stall out and crash.:banghead:
Thanks in advance and happy holidays!:friday:
Click to expand...

Oy... I once had a C-47 Dakota that was about that way... Slow to take off, even tough to maintain level flight. I think it is more a problem with the .air file, or maybe I am just a lousy pilot?
 
I've had problems with huge planes too. That can be frustrating, looking back after 5 minutes of climbing and seeing your still barely off the ground, lol. :isadizzy:
 
Hello Minuteman10,

Flaps might be a good idea in real life, but in CFS, often the planes can't even maintain altitude with flaps down. I know the flap drag on the planes I built is too high.

The problem I have run into most with multi engine CFS planes is that they tend to move too well and are too responsive.

- Ivan.
 
I downloaded a USAF C-54 4 engine transport. But I'm having a very hard time flying it.
Click to expand...
If you have a link for that C-54, it would certainly help. Everything depends on the AIR file.

Ivan; go fly BRETOAL's Bréguet for a while and we will see if you still are of the same advice! As for me; I gave up!:redf:
 
Hello Hubbabubba,

Do you mean that the Breguet is not as agile as it is supposed to be? Or that the flap drag is too low?

BTW, I tried about a half dozen other changes to the jeep. The critter is still unstable and I have no idea as to why.

- Ivan.
 
Hello Hubbabubba,

I flew the Breguet this morning. Now keep in mind that I have no idea how a Breguet 693 (or whatever the number was) is sposta fly, but one can expect a certain kind of response based on the fact that it is a twin engine light bomber.

The flap drag was MUCH higher than it should have been. The rudders were pretty much ineffective except at low speed. The ailerons were about what one would expect. The elevator was overly sensitive. The aircraft also seemed to bleed off speed way too fast.

The model was the best I have seen anywhere.

- Ivan.
 
The link to download the C-54 is HERE. Flaps don't really help much, to keep from crashing I have to constantly fly with almost full flaps. Anything less than 50% flaps and I'll lose altitude.:banghead:
 
I believe the link that was supplied only has a partial parameter in it. It probably was only the first line of the URL that word wrapped in an editor. It would be better if he just email the zip file because it is not available via anonymous download.

I believe the same archive can be found here:
http://www.combatfs.com/cfc_archive/aircraft/cargo/

- Ivan.
 
Works for me.

~S~ Boing17,

24% flaps and the whole runway, no problem. Not one of the best I have ever flown. You did run it through CFSCONV.exe. It said there were errors, but it flew. By the way, 25% gives lift, the more flaps you give a plane, the drag you add, slower it flies.

J:ernae:
 
Hello Johnny,

I believe that just about all CFS aircraft have way too much flap drag to be realistic. The first hint I had of this was when I tried to tune the SBD Dauntless dive bomber I was working on. The plane would not accelerate in a vertical dive with full flaps. The effect of spoilers was tuned down to be almost neglible and yet the aircraft would hit a limit of around 300 mph. I had to tune down the flaps significantly to allow for drag from dive brakes and still be able to dive with engine idling past 350 mph.

Some Aeronautical Engineer out there is probably going to beat the heck outta me for making these generalizations, but here goes:

From what I could tell, Flap drag should never exceed airframe drag and be somewhere between 50% and 75% of the airframe drag. The coefficient of lift can be gathered from a couple graphs which aren't hard to find, but my ballpark estimate was that the Coefficient of lift which normally maxes out at about 1.35 or so should increase by around 0.25 to 0.5 with full flaps.

Even with full flaps down, on full throttle, you SHOULD be able to accelerate past the limiting airspeed for use of flaps which is usually (more generalizations) around 150 knots or 175 mph. The engine thrust is enough to greatly exceed this speed, but in real life, the flaps would blow closed (blow-up) or might be damaged by excess loads.

The general effect on most WW2 fighter aircraft is a fairly slight nose down moment with landing gear down and a fairly LARGE nose down moment with flaps down. There are exceptions, but these are the general effects gathered from reading a bunch of pilots notes / flight manuals.

Again, these are generalizations and I do welcome aero engineers out there to correct any misconceptions stated here.

- Ivan.
 
OK, BoeingB17, got the a/c.

Will install and give it a spin, but I can already see that it is a FS98 file as it was fetch from this section of FlightSim. BTW- the link doesn't work because you have to be logged-in to search and download at their site.

Ivan, I do tend to concur with you on the flaps being "overdone" in the game, but I already see a "short fall" (pun intended:kilroy:) in getting all a/c a more realistic flap drag number. Finals procedures will certainly have to be revised... or runways elongated!:costumes:
 
Ok... I thought that 100% flaps would give me the most lift.:redf: I'll go try it with 25% and see.
Thanks
 
Hello BoeingB17,

You are correct, 100% flaps WILL give you the most lift, but it will also give you the most drag. With flap settings like most CFS aircraft, the increased drag may be enough for you to NOT reach T-O speed. I will try to check out the C-54 this evening. Can you confirm for me that this is the same aircraft as you are using?

Hello Hubbabubba,

I don't actually read much of the standard procedures for CFS. I DO read a fair number of flight manuals though. I figure if the procedures do not reflect reality, they should be revised so that they do. Along the same lines, if we have a flight model that is not representative of reality, it should also be modified. Let whoever owns the documents be the judge.

- Ivan.
 
How does that old carrier pilot saying go?

(To Air Force Pilots) "Flaring to land is like squatting to pee."

Flaps? We don't no stinkin' flaps (to land) :kilroy:
 
Hello BoeingB17,

Here is what I found with the C-54 (Usaafc54.zip):

Aircraft is green, FS98 flight model

About 25% flaps seems to shorten the distance needed to take-off.
Take-Off is at about 105 kts with 25% flaps.

Aircraft has serious nose-down trim

Roll stability is very low.
Maximum G appears to be around 2.0-2.5.

Deceleration with engines at idle is VERY, VERY slow.

Flap Drag is VERY high.

- Ivan.
 
OK BoeingB17:mixedsmi:...

I tried T/O under three different methods, and they all worked!

First of all, make sure all your engines are running. Keep throttle at zero for about thirty seconds before doing anything after having started your engines.

First method; clean configuration (no flaps):

Go full throttle and let it go straight until it goes over 120MPH TAS. You should be near ¾ of the runway. At that point, compress the nose gear oleo by pushing the stick, and then pull hard. Gear-up once airborne and let the speed get over 150MPH before doing any serious climbing.

Second method;

Same as above up to 120MPH TAS. Then ¼ flaps (F5 once), pulling stick. Gear-up once airborne. Flaps-up and horizontal flying until you get 150 MPH TAS.

Third-method;

Same as above with any flaps increments. The a/c literally jumps off the runway with 100% flaps! Simply remember to get the gears up and the flaps retracted as soon as you're airborne.

The trick here is to let the a/c build-up speed before using any flaps. First method is a bit tricky. Method number two is giving the best ratio speed/lift but number three would be indicated on short runways.

Initial climbing is around 1 000 FPM with an airspeed of ±150MPH TAS. Not a rocket, but decent enough for a big bird.
 
Hello Hubbabubba,

I believe I am using a MUCH shorter runway than standard. It is Pooh field in the Hawaiian scenery. It is my normal test field and doesn't leave much margin for either a B-25 Mitchell OR a P-47D Thunderbolt.

Have you figured out how to land this beast (The C-54)?

It doesn't bleed off speed hardly at all unless you use flaps. But if maximum flap deployment speed is 150 mph, how do you get down to 150 mph to use flaps????

- Ivan.
 
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