Franz Stiger's Bf-109

[Human Drone]

Hey, gang, slightly off-topic, but I don't know a better place to get an answer. My brother-in-law and father-in-law are cooperating on a Bf-109 model for my office/"cockpit". He's asking me about a paint scheme, and if possible I'd like to do an aircraft flown by Franz Stigler, the German pilot who came upon a badly shot-up B-17 with several dead and wounded crew members; he motioned them to land, but when they didn't, he escorted them as far as the channel/North Sea, saluted the pilot, and broke away. He said of the incident (for which he could have been shot) that he couldn't shoot the plane down, it would be like shooting a man under a parachute. Link http://www.valorstudios.com/Franz-Stigler-Charlie-Brown.htm# and more details at Snopes here: http://www.snopes.com/military/charliebrown.asp

If you could help me out with a paint scheme, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[dewoitine]

Here is a moving story deserving of knights of modern time.
It is the story witch I did not know.
Value and greatness !

 

[dewoitine]

I found this picture

View attachment 57332

 

[grizzly50]

Human Drone, there are lots of listings here. You might find it: http://wp.scn.ru/

 

[Human Drone]

Thanks, grizzly50, that's a lot to peruse. I was flying with my brother-in-law last night - I have such a sweet set-up now, everything maxed and still getting 60 fps - and marveling at all you guys have added to make ETO what it is - and then BAM! - got shot down again. So it was a "comfort" to read these words about Lt. Stigler (from the first link in my OP):

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Franz was credited with 28 confirmed victories and over thirty probables. He flew 487 combat missions, was wounded four times, and was shot down seventeen times, four by enemy fighters, four by ground fire, and nine times by gunners on American bombers. He bailed out six times and rode his damaged aircraft down eleven times. [/FONT][/FONT]

He bailed out SIX TIMES! Sheesh, at what point does it get so routine that you just throw the canopy open and sigh, "Not this again..."

And frankly, Lt. Stigler flew many, many aircraft, including the Me-262 and also flying boats, so he was a very versatile pilot. Dewoitine, I din't have a side shot, so you may just a have found what I need. But I wanted to try to get the markings of the aircraft he was using at the time, and you don't know what liberties the artists have taken.

Thanks again,

Tom

 

[ndicki]

I have a week's holidays coming up. I think I'm really the one you need to talk to... Any decent info about the aircraft - type, markings, etc?

 

[Human Drone]

Well, thank you sir! I am indeed in the company of my betters. Apart from the artistic renderings shown in my first link above and the picture posted by dewoitine, the text at the first link above says this:

The Berlin Bear painted onto the forward cowling of Franz’s plane was the mascot of Franz’s squadron.... (snipped some) and - Franz’s fighter carried his personal nose art that showed his wife’s name, Eva, next to an apple with a snake weaving through it. Franz’s rudder bore 25 victories marks, amassed prior to December 20, 1943. That day, in his encounter with “Ye Olde Pub,” Franz saw his brother's pleading eyes in faces of the B-17 crew and realized he had almost walked the same path as his brother's killer. During the next year and four months of fighting, Franz flew in the desperate defense of Germany. While he would shoot down further opposing aircraft, after December 20, he stopped adding victory marks to his rudder.

Well, you didn't need all that text, but it's touching... There is a high angle view of the "Eva" & apple/snake at the first link in my OP, let's see what I can do here...

Here is info on his assignment, presumably covering the time of this incident:

Franz transferred to Bf 109 fighter aircraft upon learning of the loss of his brother August, who died piloting a bomber shot down over the English Channel. Franz flew combat in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, and Western Europe. He served as a Squadron Commander of three squadrons (Numbers 6, 8, and 12, of JG 27) and twice a Wing Commander, all flying Bf 109 fighters.

Attached are graphics from that site, for reference, as well as a third image I picked up form somewhere a ways back that shows the -109 with the whirl on the propeller cone. I'm not sure how accurate that image is, as the B-17 was flying on only 1 engine at the time of the encounter. I'm also not sure of the variant of the -109 he was flying at the time.

& ndicki, please don't trouble yourself too much, though it might be a fine addition for the library; my purpose was for a balsa-and tissue model that will hang in my office. Gee, though, that would be a neat skin... <scratches chin>

Much thanks, though, kind sir for whatever help you can provide! :salute:

Tom

 

[ndicki]

It's a basic G-5 or G-6, probably G-6 although you can't tell for sure without seeing the starboard side. I should be able to manage something fairly convincing, assuming my Bf109G templates are still readable! As it'd be simply rebadging an existing layered skin, it's no trouble.

 

[Human Drone]

I just found this picture from 4 months after the encounter. It identifies it as a G-6. As he was shot down 17 times, this may not be the same plane, but the victory markings are on the tail, at least.

Thanks again!


Tom

(Beautiful fraulein is a bonus...)

 

[Human Drone]

And more, here is a pic of a model signed by Stigler, as well as closer view of an artist rendering of the starboard side. Note, thought, that the B & W photo in my last post above specifically mentions a white rudder as indicative of something.

Tom

 

[ndicki]

Interesting - he should have a green fuselage band by that date, but doesn't. They were admittedly painted on rather unenthusiastically - theoretically ordered in January 1944 or so, but it took a few months before everybody in JG 27 had them. The rudder is white and shows he's a Schwarmfuhrer, I agree. Otherwise, standard RLM 74-75-76 paint job. The only thing I can't do is the spinner spiral - the model doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

 

[Human Drone]

Well, two things:

1. The encounter took place Dec 20, 1943, so the green band hadn't been ordered yet.
2. The spinner spiral isn't shown in all pictures, so maybe his didn't have one?

Question: What's a Schwarmfurher? But see, that's why I asked here: Y'all know the history so much better than I do. Kudos t you!

Tom

 

[ndicki]

True enough for December 1943 at the time of the encounter, but as the photo is from April 1944, then he should have by that time. Just being boring and tech-y.

A Schwarmfuhrer is a flight commander - a Schwarm is two Rotten... Or pairs.

http://www.geocities.ws/jagd3udet/FORMATIONS2.html

 

[Human Drone]

Thanks for that. Yes, I didn't know whether you were referring to the B&W photo or the artwork/model with regards to the green stripe. I'll be checking out that formation & tactics link as well - there is a reason for my screen name, I'm not exactly an ace...

Best,

Tom

 

[Human Drone]

Another update. John Shaw's painting of the scene shows both a white spinner and rudder. http://www.libertystudios.us/painting/a_higher_call/ Would a flight leader have a white spinner as well?

I've emailed him asking if he would be willing to share his source for Lt. Stigler's personal mark - an apple & snake, with "Eva" above it. We'll see what happens there. I could then make decals or hand paint them onto the model.

Best,

Tom

 

[ndicki]

The spinner is basically meaningless at this point - black, white, black with a white spiral, white with a black spiral or segmented black and squadron colour, or solid squadron colour... Here, the squadron (Staffel) colour is yellow, and the nose clearly isn't yellow! The spiral was first introduced in the late spring of 1943 on Bf109g-5/6 aircraft, possibly of JG 53, and became generalised during 1944. JG 27 and 77 picked up the habit early as they were based in the Mediterranean at the same time as JG 53. If the aircraft had served with JG 27 before it left the Med, it could well have retained a white spinner as also used in that area. Or not...

I would suggest that the artist is actually avoiding the sticky problem of having to represent the spiral in movement... And that a black-and-white spiral would be typically correct. Among other possibilities!

 

[Human Drone]

Your knowledge of these things is awesome! Meanwhile, I contacted John Shaw, who made one of the paintings (and met with both men, as I understand), and he graciously shared a better picture of the personal mark ("Eva", apple and snake). However, before I post it here, I want to get his permission, as I'd only mentioned using it on a (physical) model.

If you do the skin, we should package it up with the background story, which I can provide. Most sources don't mention it, but Lt. Brown was quite unnerved seeing the Messerschmidt flying alongside and was just waiting for him to unleash some new weapon or just finish him of conventionally. Lt. Stigler motioned for him to land, but Lt. Brown refused, because of the wounded on board. So Lt. Stigler tried to point him toward Sweden (neutral) which was only 30 min away. Lt. Brown, being wounded, didn't understand and instead was bound to try to get "home" to England (2 hrs. across the North Sea). Finally his nerves got the best of him and he ordered his engineer to try to get to the top turret. When Lt. Stigler saw the figure appear in the top turret, he (now famously) saluted and banked away. Note that he had just taken off in pursuit of the wounded craft and was fully armed. He could've responded in kind, and quite decisively, but didn't.

John Shaw's site was posted in one of my earlier posts, but here it is again, opened to the work at hand here: http://www.libertystudios.us/painting/a_higher_call/. I wouldn't mind owning a few works of his!

Best, & hope you get your graphics card sorted out,

Tom

 

[ndicki]

It certainly is a splendid painting! I quite see what you mean - one or two like that wouldn't go amiss on my walls, either!

I've vaguely started work on the skin for the Bf109G-6... Have you already installed my update pack? You'll be needing the guns, sounds, etc, from this one in due course:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?s=&catid=84&keyid=&nameid=&page=1&pp=15&sort=h

White 9, at the top of the page. If you haven't already got our 109s, there are maybe 20 or 25 different versions, from the G-2 to the K-4 and all points between.

And I'll bet that apple is a variation of the Staffel insignia of 7./JG 27...

 

[Human Drone]

Dear sir:

Are you one of the storied (former) members of the AvHistory 1% group? Man, them's is some fine air-ee-o-planes! I don't know if I have them or not, as all I have since getting my new box and re-installing is the ETO 1.40 through the hot patch. I thought that included all the AvHistory stuff. I've been loathe to add anything more to it until I make up a way to log all my changes, plus I didn't know what any additional add-ons would do the the ETO stuff.

But I'll grab your update and see if it's already there, and if not, in it goes. And I'll see about getting you a PDF of the story to include in the package. Meanwhile, here's the personal mark. I haven't heard from him but this has to be public domain. He did say in his reply to me that his research indicated that the spinner was white. You said that was a good possibility, too, so...

And yeah, there are a slew of 109 variants! I think there were variations of the varinat's variations!

Best,

Tom

 

[ndicki]

Sorry to disappoint! But no, I'm not one of the AvH group, even if we have worked together on a few things. Gregoryp gave us permission to use the AvH 4.XX flight dynamics for the Bf109G-10 DCM, and Rene (Greycap RAF) took it from there. He's responsible for the FMs for the DL and DR2 series aircraft which fulfil the same 1% criteria as the AvH ones. Unfortunately AvH is no longer up and running...

We have not released our DL or DR2 for inclusion in ETO or any other package. If you follow the install instructions though, all our stuff is easily fully integrated into ETO and/or MAW - which I recommend highly if you haven't already got it!

I think we have quite literally covered every imaginable operational G and K subseries, bearing in mind that some were effectively the same but with different names... The G-10 DCM is my favourite. Goes like a rocket and (generally) carries a 30mm cannon. There are 6 different ones in the library if I remember rightly - DCM and DBM engines, with 20 or 30mm cannon, Erla, ME or WNF-built, early, mid and late-production types...


That apple is going to be helpful...