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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

FSX as "space flight simulator" ....

R

rcbarend

Charter Member
Hi all,

Ready to try out something really new in FSX ?
I was .... :)

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=1&linkid=14909

You probably link my name to "VTOL" addons for FSX aircraft like Harriers, F35B, Tiltrotors, etc.

A few months ago, Bruce Fitzgerald (another freeware designer who's thinking out-of-the-box on what's possible to create for FSX) made me aware, that my "VTOL" solution for FSX could be applied to spaceflight as well.
Allthough the "scenery" engine of FSX supports flying in space (300.000 feet and above) very well, the "flight dynamics" engine of FSX doesn't.
Which got me thinking ..... And designing ....

The result being this addon for Bruce's Spaceshuttle 'Atlantis' addon, released a few years ago.
Tweaked for some scenery addon's recently released by Bruce; like the International Space Station and Battlestar Galactica (for the SF enthousiasts among you).

It is fully realistic ?
NO. Because there is one limitation in FSX that cannot be bypassed: the absolute max. speed in FSX is limited to 2666 Knots.
Whereas the real ISS is circuling our planet with appr. 27000 miles/hour.
But if you're willing to accept this speed limitation (and that, therefore, these space sceneries are implemented as geo-stationary objects), there's a whole new 'niche' in FSX to explore..

Like: launching the spaceshuttle from a Launch Facility at Kennedy Space Centre (default FSX scenery) and flying to / docking it at the ISS.
And fly back (plotting your route) to e.g the Shuttle Landing Facility at EdwardsAFB ....

If your were put off earlier because you had to use the FSX SLEW feature to do the above: no more !!!

No doubt there are better simulator programs then FSX for space flight.
But if (like for me) FSX is your favorite flight simulator, this is as-good-as-it-gets. For now.....

Just try it out if you're interrested .....
As a warning: this isn't a simple "download/install/fly" addon; you have some serious reading to do, and, probably, download/install other freeware addon's to be able to use it as intended.
All described in my README.
If it's worth your time ?? You judge yourself ......

Best regards, and (hopefully) enjoy ...

Rob Barendregt
 
Doesn't work for me, yet. That's OK, I still can't find my light saber and Acme Atomic Neutralizer Space Gun!

Best. Paul
 
Sounds pretty darn awesome and revolutionary, Rob. You should share this at Prepar3D. NASA might be able to use this technology in space flight simulation. Also, the Prepar3D team might be able to adjust the top end speed limit on the next update.


Bill
 
I`m going to have to see if that can be adapted to the 2707. Ran smack into the FSX top speed thing mucking about with the Skybolt, SUNBURN and TinyTim. The darned things keep accelerating untill the sim crashes to desk top, about 20 minutes after launching the missile. :pop4:
Looking forward to trying it out. Thanks Rob!
 
rcbarend said:
Apperantly the link only works for the uploader at first :)
And is restricted for access untill approved by the library manager.

Anyway, it's now in the "Whats new" section on the frontpage too.
Maybe this link works better.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=4&linkid=14909


Rob
Click to expand...
Good to see you, old friend...I can think of a certain "jupiter-2" that would benefit greatly from this...if we ever get around to doing the texture enhancements for it to show up properly in FSX.

Best to you!

Rich
 
Three teaser screenshots:

- The Atlantis, launching from the Shuttle Launch Facility at Kennedy Space Center (default FSX scenery).
- The Atlantis, in it's docking procedure to the ISS (900.000 ft over KPAM)
- The space navigator gauge; for those who remember: a resurrection of the Meatball HUD I developped 10 years ago for FS2K2/ FS9 Carrier Operations.

Cheers, Rob
 
Warhawk1130 said:
Good to see you, old friend...I can think of a certain "jupiter-2" that would benefit greatly from this...if we ever get around to doing the texture enhancements for it to show up properly in FSX.

Best to you!

Rich
Click to expand...
Yep, I remember all the fun with the Jupiter-2 in FS9 :)
And yes, this development would be great for it as well.

But as far as remember, it's not just a texture problem to make it work in FSX (like also: all the incompatible "FS98" gauges)
But if anyone would pickup on a LOS Jupiter-2 for FSX, I'm more then willing to contribute with this new stuff.

Best, Rob
 
Cant speed be relative to each other? If the ISS is slowed down to 2666, then the Shuttle would be fine. It may take a long time to circle the Earth, but they would be constant.

-Jeff
 
So . . . I thought I'd just take a break here . . . now that I'm DOCKED TO THE ISS!!! :jump:

. . . an say THANKS! :ernae:

The navigator is a nice piece of work and the whole thing really adds a great new aspect to FSX. I think this opens up a whole set of possibilities for the sim.

Bravo :applause:

James
 
Amazing work Rob! I have always hoped something like this would come about, always wanted to explore this area of FS.
 
ST0RM said:
Cant speed be relative to each other? If the ISS is slowed down to 2666, then the Shuttle would be fine. It may take a long time to circle the Earth, but they would be constant.

-Jeff
Click to expand...
That's a very interresting question ....

That is, if you mean the following:
Example:
Suppose the ISS is circuling the earth at 2300 Knots or so, and the shuttle is launced at the right time and heading, it could approach the ISS with a relative (to the ISS) speed of 366 knots.

But that would mean:
1. The ISS should be implemented as a flyable model, instead of a static scenery object.
2. It should be possible to define AI aircraft flying at those altitudes (don't know if possible) or use a program like FS-Recorder to record a flight of such an ISS model.
3. A solution for the problem to keep 2 flying objects exactly "synchronised" in heading, altitude and speed, within one foot. It know it's roughly possible (like an aircraft following an AI tank aircraft for re-fuelling), but I can't solve that myself.

Besides that, there's another FSX problem.
Which is the way FSX implements it's coordinates system (the "flat" earth problem).
Circling the earth in FSX now is only possible in very specific conditions.
To illustrate that for yourself:
- Setup a flight with an aircraft positioned at coordinates 0 degrees Longitude and 0 degrees Latitude; at any altitude.
- Go into SLEW mode.
- With a TRUE heading of 0/180 degrees or 90/270 degrees, slewing forward fast will fly a perfect circle around the earth. Resp. over the equator and north/south pole.
- But now try the same with another heading, like 70 degrees. Instead of circling the earth in another orbit, it flies a spiral and ends up flying over the north/south pole, exiting the north/south pole with an unpredictable heading.

So all-in-all:
I don't think that true realistic spaceflight in FSX (even apart from max. speed) is viable; don't know how far Prepar3D is willing to go in this respect, but I doubt that.
Again, FSX wasn't designed as a space flight simulator, and I don't think the Prepar3D team will have any interrest in lifting all these restrictions.
IMO it would mean re-coding FSX completely, since the (simplified) coordinates system in FSX is one of the basics since FS2.

So for now: either enjoy what IS possible now (i.e. with Static scenery in space), or ignore the whole idea :)

Regards, Rob
 
View attachment 74791

I fitted the new gauge to the 7072. :applause::applause::applause: Brilliant! Just bloody brilliant. Only time for a quick zang off the Shuttle strip at KSC up to 800,000 and back for now. Seems to work bonzer; I'll have to try out the other modes later. Well done Rob. Any one wants me to hook them up, PM me and I'll send you the modified files. I'll be fitting this one to a few other models. So many possibilities- AI carriers in space!
A-OK! Up is Go!
 
lazarus said:
View attachment 74791

I fitted the new gauge to the 7072. :applause::applause::applause: Brilliant! Just bloody brilliant. Only time for a quick zang off the Shuttle strip at KSC up to 800,000 and back for now. Seems to work bonzer; I'll have to try out the other modes later. Well done Rob. Any one wants me to hook them up, PM me and I'll send you the modified files. I'll be fitting this one to a few other models. So many possibilities- AI carriers in space!
A-OK! Up is Go!
Click to expand...

Although I appreciate your enthousiasme, I'm a bit puzzled wrt. your statement ".. PM me and I'll send you the modified files".
Please explain ....

Regards, Rob
 
View attachment 74796
Oh. The 7072 panel cfg with the space flight gauge data added , and a suborbital cfg/airfile set for the 7072, which are still notional, having been writen around 'natural' FSX flight modeling attempting to simulate a very unconventional engine/spaceframe combination and 'fly' global range suborbital profiles in a quasi realistic manner without resorting to slew and unlimited fuel. The movie 'canon' and the novelization posit some type of nuclear rocket, a likely candidate would be the uranium hexafluoride/ whatever reaction mass system-water, ammonia, H2, slushH2 ect, the 'lightbulb' system, which gives a good specific impulse for a long time at low to high throttle settings, and really banging thrust at max flow, but will run tanks dry on reaction mass and fissionable material in a hurry-about 25 seconds, so you had to work the numbers to get to, say Kwajalian and back from the west coast and still have a bit of juice to power the instruments(one shut down and the other at idle) down to landing. With your space flight gauge, some re-tuning was required, and will probably be on going for a bit. From a horizontal lift off, the gauge came in smooth as silk at 300K, but needs to carry a higher throttle setting than the way I was flying in the 250K-650K, boosting and gliding. If I was 100% certain of compatability, I'd just paste a link or U\L direct, but more flying and the other modes need testing.
Its also got me to thinking about a 'first stage' using the tow plane set up. Maybe the An-225, or a 'flyback' booster. Endless posibilities!
 
View attachment 74809I wanted to make a quick hop and fly this a bit more. 3 hours later...
This is just too #%$&@!* cool. so far, it seems perfectly compatable with AI Carriers placed objects, and Piglet has already given us a primo space carrier. The configuration for AIC2 will take a bit of exploration vis a viz optimum operating speeds. At 1800 kts, it moves fast enough to position at a reasonable pace and formation work is fine; though its way beyond the 'delta V' limit in 'translation' mode.You can land aboard though working the throttle. 0 airspeed 'geosyc' works best, landing on then is just working out the best proceedure and flying the docking camera. I think a moving carrier might work best at 'carrier speeds'; 25 kts or so to stay within the DeltaV limits in translation mode. Vertical approaches with pirouette turns about the X axis are impressive and effective; and you can do the drop ship thing. I have to dig out that UD-4L now and get the Sulaco into commission. Another day. Now to bag a few Zees.View attachment 74802View attachment 74803View attachment 74804View attachment 74805View attachment 74806View attachment 74807View attachment 74808As opposed to pulling a few Gees or pushing a few Cees
 
Good to hear that more designers are interrested in "space flight" ...:)

ABout using AI-traffic as vehicle for moving "space stations":
(I use this name to refer to any object in space that has dockable/landable surfaces)

First: my current implementation of both flight gauge and navigator gauge doesn't support that.
Just try to stay put after landing on a moving deck; the only way to do that now is moving the aircraft with the same speed as the speed of the moving deck.
Also, the Navigator is based on static (non-moving) stations only.

I can see the advantage of defining "space stations" as AI (but with 0 speed), which makes it easier to place space stations anywhere in the world.
But I can't see the added value (like with normal aircraft carriers on the earth's sea) of these space stations moving, giving the max. speed restriction in FSX and (at these low speeds at space altitudes) the lack visual reference to the earth scenery.
Which makes it a bit pointless IMO to use moving AI, since the speed difference between aircraft and landable station is relative.
And only has a meaning when there's a visible reference between aircraft/station and earth surface.

Maybe I'm missing the added value of moving space stations, but I'm gladly convinced otherwise :)

Best regards, Rob
 
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