FSX Vietnam War project.

xpelekis

xpelekis

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My "plan" with this project is the ability of the user to fly with many different planes or helicopters
of Vietnam Era, in FSX Military Missions. Weapon solution I use and will be needed, is Captain Sim's Weapon for FSX
though if there will be any interest, bombing with free Weapon Pack 4 will also be available to some extend
(needs much more work from my side).

My purpose is to populate target areas (like NVA Barracks, NVA AirBases, protected Bridges, protected Power Plants etc)
with target objects of "Aircraft" type for CS Weapons, based on real target areas of that Era (though I don't strive for an
exact re-production of course).

For the user, this means just a few kbs of one .xml file (FSX Mission .xml) that defines the position of "Aircraft" type
SimObjects targets - moving ot static, planes, vehicles, ships, etc - (CS Weapon seems incapable of destroying other type
of simobjects), as also the position of additional scenery objects of the target area. My thought is to populate about
10 different such areas.
Of course, a "Pack" with the converted & necessary objects must be installed before this.
Farthermore, this Mission .xml, may include various Simulated Military Combat Events (see below).
User then has the choice, to create the appropriate .FLT & .WX files, for the Aircraft he owns and wishes to fly,
the Weather/Time of day and the Airport (AirBase) that he will take off for the mission sortie.
Thus, wrapping up these 3 elements (.xml, .flt, .wx), giving'em the same name to create an FSX Military Mission
that he can fly with his CS Weaponed Aircraft.

In the following two videos, I present this concept for the FSX : Vietnam War project.

.XML TARGET AREA : an NVA Barracks besides "Than Hoa" bridge :

OH-6 "Loach" attacking base

OV-10 "Bronco" attacking base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwmF37tBvis

The whole FSX VIETNAM WAR video playlist presenting various abilities & possibilities, you may watch here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXH_wMR1OZ8&list=PL7e3lFzD82xeJ25bMx5DqoVuihu4RcNwl

The SimObjects that you see in videos above, come from FSX@War project, in which I participate as beta tester
for the Captain Sim's Weapons. In videos there are 20 SimObjects targets (6 of them moving) with no FPS impact
(only FPS impact during many destruction effects)

Simulated Military Combat Events (in .xml code) :

1. Attached areas to simobjects that simulate AA contoled areas that can harm the player (if simobjects not destroyed).
2. AI planes capable of Intercepting & damaging the player
3. Various Objectives for the player that have to be accomplished before hostile AIs execute certain actions.
4. AI friendly Leader, as also other AI friendlies, etc.
5. Random events & random occurance/appearence of targets for the element of surprise & for keeping user "on his toes"...
6. Challeging Pursuit of hostile AI aircrafts that fly in "AI Playback" (the native FSX prerecorded flight track, similar to FS Recorder.
Difference is that AIs flying in playback can be destroyed, can have attached area for damaging the player!, can trigger events
when passing through certain areas etc. It can do all the stuff that an AI plane flying in WayPoints can do !...).

It worths showing you this "AI Playback" Capabilities - Possibilities :

Pursuit :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7YCBxFt2B4

AI A-7 Catapulted & AI Helicopter for Immersion :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm1MJ3MHs38

7. Multiplayer Capability, provided that each player is responsible for different targets (even at the same small area, like an AirBase).

I would really like to hear from you, Are there any active users of CS Weapons & would there
be any interest in such a way of Military flying in FSX ?
 
Yes... The same project is (as I've already mentioned here : http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?90274-Hi-all&p=912208#post912208 )
that may be used to enhance the virtual experience - environment. And I already use this. In fact, the existance of this project motivated me.

What I propose is Military Flying (FSX Missions) in this Vietnam War project with functional weapon systems.
But you are right. I'll clarify more precise for no confusion.
 
The only suggestion would to be to select historic operations and base the missions off of those. Several authors in the past have made some pretty good VN based FSX missions using Piglet's outstanding OH-6 and A-1 models, but without the additional scenery. Much like the current project, using period correct AI models and scenery would add to the immersion one would be looking for. Too bad CS Weps didn't have any AAA or SAMs to sprinkle around Hanoi.

What program are you using to make the missions?
 
We used to fly a lot with a virtual group that was specifically simulating SEA ops: The Vampyres

Most of them have switched ops to Falcon BMS, but it can be worth getting in touch with them here http://theexiledfleet.com/

Some good old videos flying with them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7v3sYmfL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p_2xFd2HYo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0grOsFiic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv_Wvi1RF4I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvZu9xQA2wI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3SzO3EuPFs
 
We've flown some Vietnam scenerios at Miramar Flying Club and it was a lot of fun. I noticed you signed up . Hopefully will be finished with my project at work and get to fly with you soon .We have a lot of people who love the same thing. And we have some guys developing an add on for just such things . They've been conducting covert work on their "Naval Engagement" for quite a while now .
 
Really nice flying videos over there !... I encountered "Vampyres" page & I'm using some stuff
from over there also. Especially I'm interested about the Flak effects... see video.

Too bad CS Weps didn't have any AAA or SAMs to sprinkle around Hanoi.
Click to expand...

Sure it would be nice, like the Tacpack. But I don't own it and can't really say...
Since Tacpack is not for all planes & it doesn't work in Missions, I doubt if I'll
ever use it.
But simulated Flak, SAMs & any AA capable vehicle, boat or flying AI already exist
in my missions. Only sound effects though of fire being casted upon the player.
This is the concept of "Simulated Military Combat Events" that I'm talking about :


This way, FSX becomes a "Strategy Combat Simulator", in a similar concept with
Board Strategy Games : In this Mission, the 2 Flaks are just 2 "pieces on the board map",
while the chance of hitting the player is defined by "dices" (RandomAction) with 25%
chance of downing player, each time he enters the attached to each Flak area (here defined
to a 900m radius). By defining these parameters (size of areas, chance of incidence, player's
hight, speed, Gs, etc) you create the FSX "Simulated Military Combat Events" as I mean it.

For Mission building, I use Instant Mission Maker. But after a year in FSX Mission Building,
I add much more potential & abilities in my Missions than IMM is capable of, by changing
the .xml code by hand.

@Corvette : Yes... We'll see what it may derive from this...
 
Just thought I'd toss in that I am the fellow doing the software for the NEUWUC system (Naval Engagement! mentioned above). We can provide "live fire". At the Fallon air base in Nevada, we have a live range set up with several SA-6 missile batteries. Good luck getting to them though. Particularly if you don't have some form of jamming aircraft with you. You have to fly really low to get below their radars and without jamming they will pick you off. :a1310:

In the donationware forum is some description and there is a video of an amphibious assault (yeah it is dark) test we ran a couple of years ago with over 120 ships, LVTs, tanks, missile batteries, trucks, etc. on the Miramar Flying Club site. It was primarily a test to see what bandwidth and cpu limitation we'd encounter. My old (10 year old computer) managed 4-8 frames when facing the beach but did 12-16 when facing the task force. We're trying to put together a more modern video with all our latest enhancements, but we can simulate just about any weapon or platform. If you come up with a scenario and need weapons, we'll be glad to make it NEUWUC friendly... we need weapon or sensor type, lat/lon/alt. If there are firing bearing limitations those too. Since *I* am the developer I am free to add any capabilities we don't already have. No corporation to deal with, and I'm not in this for the money, but to have more fun and to make this a thinking man's (or woman's) game - not just a "let's go out and drop bombs". When combined with fsx missions the scenarios can get pretty intense. :mixed-smiley-027:
 
Hi Wizard.
All these seem very interesting !... I'll have to test in practice your "systems" inside FSX Military Missions to
understand and estimate the new possibilities you're talking about. I'll get in touch with you to guide me about these
stuff.
So you mean that with your project, if I provide you coordinates of AA, Flak, SAMs etc, and afterwards I run these
utilities in FSX Mission environment, I'll get Visual flak & Visual SAMs being launched against the player ?...
Farthermore, if this is the case, then your utilities being run besides the upcoming FSX@War project, will provide
such things for players that don't own Tacpack in Free Flight also !...
Saying that, maybe you could consider come in touch with FSX@War project team, cause as far as I understand
being an insider of this project, you have a lot to offer to them as also to get from them...

Saying that & changing subject a bit, this is a utility of FSX@War project, for spawning vehicle Convoy or Ship formations
with just a few klicks, called CCPP (Carrier & Convoy Planner ) :


And this is just the "top of the iceberg"...
 
NEUWUC pic's

Glad to hear of your interest, and I'm interested as well in all of your efforts in mission building. Hear are some recent pic's:2014-10-6_13-24-58-687.jpg2014-10-7_15-59-25-173.jpg2014-10-7_16-13-4-835.jpg2014-10-18_17-14-44-2.jpg2014-10-19_15-22-19-229.jpg2014-10-20_10-46-28-700.jpg2014-10-22_12-58-23-434.jpg
 
IN NEUWUC we have "rral" world and scenarios. In real world mode all platforms are visible at all times and they transit, burn fuel, have casualties and so on. Scenarios are more like training missions and are of short duration. So for instance, we have a small task group currently off Mexico and it took them three days to transit there. The task group consists of the 1 DDG, 2FFGs, a T-AO, and the USNS Mercy. The group (what's left of them) is still steaming outside the 12 mile limit to keep the Mexicans mollified. They (the Mexicans) however, have asked Cuba for help and so there is a Kirov, a Kiev, and a Nanuchka, and 2 Foxtrot subs assisting them. In response the US sent a Seawolf submarine as additional force.

Visual SAMS - absolutely. Flak is an effect - I have not modeled small caliber weapons - only the 16 inch guns. But if you place a "scenery" object gun, and it has a flak effect we can trigger it. Typically bullets travel fast with short life expectancies and thus are not worth attempting to create on the fly. However, sixteen inch rounds fired from 12 miles away do take time, and thus I have modelled them. And this is where combining with FSX missions can be important.... Once inside the envelope of a gun, NE can begin the shooting sequence while FSX tosses up the flak, thus keeping things reasonable on the internet and yet still having lots of realism. Of course, should the probablistics be favorable (depending which side you are on) and the aircraft is hit, then U/W can cause the aircarft to become unflyable and the pilot told to eject into a parachute for later recovery.

We have tried very hard to simulate just about everything - so cargo guys can haul critical parts that are needed for repairs (which otherwise do not get fixed), ammunition can still get where it's needed, and so on. We'll need to set up depots in Vietnam for parts and munitions, keeping an inventory, etc. And don't be fooled by the name - I called this software Naval Engagement! back in the 80's when I started it because I wanted a naval warfare simulator. But it certainly can handle any type of system you want. The only problem with land is that FSX, while it used the geodetic surveys, is nowhere near precise in it's altitudes. I have yet to resolve how not to drop bombs through mountains - particularly in Captain! where there is no FSX interface... but we would have the same problem with X-Plane or any other simulator.

I just (re)created my Youtube account and I hope to get our camp Pendleton o-dark-hundred amphibious assault movie uploaded tomorrow. I'll post when it is ready. Meanwhile I am working on a more recent movie covering the creation of Camp Amber on the US-Mexican border (fictional).

My only advice is - think big. I like a challenge and having fun is my personal priority in making NEUWUC. And I'm a big boy, so if something doesn't work the way you like let me know - if there's a reason why it does it one way and not yours I'll explain, but if you have a good idea I'll be happy to implement it. Each group of testers I've had has introduced many good ideas and has made NEUWUC far better than I ever dreamed was possible.
 
Wizard, with no doubt you people have done a huge and ambitious work over there, focused for the online Myltiplay flight simmers who want to fly with Realism "As it gets", in a constantly evolving virtual environment !
That's huge and even LokheedMartin with Prepar3D doesn't "aim so high" in the Military part of their sim I guess !..

"My" approach is far more simplistic :

1. Functional Weapons for any FSX plane or heli in FSX with CS Weapons addon.
2. FSX Military Mission building for placing the targets as also for the user's interaction with the
FSX virtual environment (in many ways like : Pilot dialogues triggered by situations, Lead AI, friendly & enemy AIs, "Simulated Combat Events", Random Events etc).
3. FSX Vietnam Virtual Environment cause all the work has already been done ! (Immersive ABs, Airplanes, so on...)

Functional Flak (that can down the player, evolve of the mission in video above - see video description)

If this is done in the right way, a new "Vietnam Era sim" in FSX will be created... CS Weapon addon is a fun addon for "blowing stuff up" but has realistic trajectories for the weapons. The thing is that for the average FSX user that flies only in Free Flight, it can be used only for fun, while in FSX Missions can show it's full potential, using it as a "tool" for a Successful sortie - Mission....

Prons & Cons :

What I see as a "disadvantage" with NEUWUC, is the "restrictive" obligation of connecting to
a Server for all these calculations to take place.
On the other hand, this means Multiplayer Capable.

What I see as a "disadvantage" to my approach is :
a. Concerns only CS Weapon users
b. Mainly offline - singleplayer
c. Potential Users of the project (ie, the FSX Mil Missions), depend on me for making the Missions
(or from other Mission Makers that may arise - no default Mission Editor in FSX... pitty...).

About Multiplayer FSX Military Missions, this is also a possibility (and I'm in to this also) but with some restrictions compared to single player, mainly cause of the FSX synchronization problems , as also the restricted & different data it transmitts from host to clients & vice versa. FSX Multiplay it was not meant for this type of Multiplaying (ie, combat).

Finally, about combining our projects, I can't clearly figure out how this could work.
 
I think combining the two - missions and scenarios will be fantastic. But I'll address your pros and cons -

for NEUWUC's disadvantage - connecting to a server is as simple as setting up a loadout file prior to flying - which gives your logon info and your weapons loadouts - ie if you fly an F-4 there are a wide variety of weapons you can carry - for a helo or P-3 - also sonobuoys. Once in flight sim you simply turn the underway switch on. Very simple. And while it does mean multiplayer - you can also run a simple scenario by yourself.

for your disadvantages:
a. limited weapons - true, but NEUWUC solves that problem
b. I always intended NEUWUC to be multiplayer - You, of course can fly alone, but someone can join in. It is certainly not possible to use NEUWUC offline. On the other hand you don't even need FSX to play in NEUWUC (the Captain! program). One other advantage of NEUWUC is that should you have a blue screen of death event, when you reconnect to the NE server you will be placed within 60 seconds of your last position. This alone has saved me countless hours of frustration on long flights.
c. True, but also true for NEUWUC. But - if they can design the layout of objects using static scenery, then given the positions I can make the objects "live". It would not be too hard to create an automated system... in fact I believe there is a way to get an XML readout from FSX on objects in a mission - then you simply need parsing software to strip out the objects and their locations. That would simplify it a lot. - Or simply have the designer fill out a file that lists the object id and location and read that in. NEUWUC already has scripting capabilities so you can have object 1 move to point b at a speed or to arrive at time c. Or launch a weapon at a bearing and go active at a range.

Timing: The NE clock sets the timing between all players. NE runs on an approximate .125 sec update (8 times per second). Everyone gets updated at the same rate - although because of distances involved you might be a couple of milliseconds behind - but in the past I've seen no problems even with folks in Greece and Israel.

For combining our works, I'd suggest this - set up a scenario or mission and we will make in NEUWUC friendly - player hostile. maybe something simple to start out - the easiest is to have an AAW scenario - two sides with aircraft, maybe a SAM site or two on each side. Let the players decide what weapons they will bring and see what happens.

If there is enthusiasm for these type of missions, we are more than happy to accomodate. The idea is to bring more realism and have more fun. I know there are lots of folks that just like to blow things up, but NEUWUC is designed to provoke strategy and develop tactics from mistakes. It is not a video game and it is not easy to win - if your opponents are any good.


xpelekis said:
Prons & Cons :

What I see as a "disadvantage" with NEUWUC, is the "restrictive" obligation of connecting to
a Server for all these calculations to take place.
On the other hand, this means Multiplayer Capable.

What I see as a "disadvantage" to my approach is :
a. Concerns only CS Weapon users
b. Mainly offline - singleplayer
c. Potential Users of the project (ie, the FSX Mil Missions), depend on me for making the Missions
(or from other Mission Makers that may arise - no default Mission Editor in FSX... pitty...).

About Multiplayer FSX Military Missions, this is also a possibility (and I'm in to this also) but with some restrictions compared to single player, mainly cause of the FSX synchronization problems , as also the restricted & different data it transmitts from host to clients & vice versa. FSX Multiplay it was not meant for this type of Multiplaying (ie, combat).

Finally, about combining our projects, I can't clearly figure out how this could work.
Click to expand...
 
Here's the Camp Pendelton video we did a couple of years ago. Finally got it up on the ol' YouTube - er google.

 
All the necessary elements for this project to start, I think has been gathered - accomplished, ie :
- Functional Flak with proper effects
- AI intercepting & damaging player
- SimObject Targets as also scenery targets (destroyed with free weapon pack4)
as also :
- Functional SAMs directed with low accuracy towards player, triggering their explosion by approximation to him :


Now the main Missions using above elements have to be made...
As for the Missions logic-mechanism, many ideas come from here : http://www.airbattle.co.uk/d_summary.html

Since FSX focuses in "just flying the plane" and is not a combat sim, the Strategy concept of board games, I think suits this sim best...
 
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