Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Though I must admit, I was pulling for Jeff Gordon....:d
'Good To See Mark Martin In Victory Lane Yet Again!'
- Thread starter Panther_99FS
- Start date
Cazzie
SOH-CM-2024
I have not seen the past two Chicago races, boring to the max track, never any action, just follow the leader, always two or three debris cautions to stack the field.
Yet another Hendrick's victory, by again the right Hendrick's driver. But I'd just rather not bore myself to death on a Saturday evening at Chicagoland, I went to SoBo (South Boston Motor Speedway, a 0.4-mi oval) and watched the late Model Sportsmen live, much better way to spend a Saturday evening. Cup racing will have to go to great lengths to please me in future events, even Bristol is boring and I never thought I'd say that. Instead of the COT, we need the COY.
Caz
Yet another Hendrick's victory, by again the right Hendrick's driver. But I'd just rather not bore myself to death on a Saturday evening at Chicagoland, I went to SoBo (South Boston Motor Speedway, a 0.4-mi oval) and watched the late Model Sportsmen live, much better way to spend a Saturday evening. Cup racing will have to go to great lengths to please me in future events, even Bristol is boring and I never thought I'd say that. Instead of the COT, we need the COY.
Caz
Hey All,
I watched it. The last 30 odd laps of the race were pretty good - the rest just riding. At the end it was a clean air and tires race. Martin got the clean air with Gordon in tow while cars on the topside messed each other up Hamlin and Vickers as I recall). Then Gordon didn't have enough rubber to get Martin. Jimmy got 8th after Hamlin decided to try to wreck him - OK - stays high in the points - all he needs to do is hang in there and then he and Chad get serious for the last 10 races - gotta break Cale Yarboroughs record you know.
Caz I cannot understand why you want the COY - it was a great era but it's history - dead and can never be brought back to life. We can never reverse technology unless we call it vintage NASCAR. Now there's an idea vintage NASCAR racing - lets get some winged superbirds and some hemi's back on the track.
As for the rest of it racing showroom floor cars (with safety added) won't work any more because the money is too big and the risk of being a big loser too big (looks bad to customers). No corporation has the guts to risk that probably ever again - at a corporate level as far as racing is concerned the old we'll try harder next week attitude doesn't exist anymore - no money in it. Now having look-a-like cars with different names on them - well everybody gets something of a share in the action. Fiduciary responsibility, economic efficiency (economies of scale meaning get big) and return on investment - what else really matters? NASCAR gets it.
I never said it was right it just is.
-Ed-
I watched it. The last 30 odd laps of the race were pretty good - the rest just riding. At the end it was a clean air and tires race. Martin got the clean air with Gordon in tow while cars on the topside messed each other up Hamlin and Vickers as I recall). Then Gordon didn't have enough rubber to get Martin. Jimmy got 8th after Hamlin decided to try to wreck him - OK - stays high in the points - all he needs to do is hang in there and then he and Chad get serious for the last 10 races - gotta break Cale Yarboroughs record you know.
Caz I cannot understand why you want the COY - it was a great era but it's history - dead and can never be brought back to life. We can never reverse technology unless we call it vintage NASCAR. Now there's an idea vintage NASCAR racing - lets get some winged superbirds and some hemi's back on the track.
As for the rest of it racing showroom floor cars (with safety added) won't work any more because the money is too big and the risk of being a big loser too big (looks bad to customers). No corporation has the guts to risk that probably ever again - at a corporate level as far as racing is concerned the old we'll try harder next week attitude doesn't exist anymore - no money in it. Now having look-a-like cars with different names on them - well everybody gets something of a share in the action. Fiduciary responsibility, economic efficiency (economies of scale meaning get big) and return on investment - what else really matters? NASCAR gets it.
I never said it was right it just is.
-Ed-
Cazzie
SOH-CM-2024
And in lieu of attracting more fans, NASCAR is losing them in droves, especially in the old deep south. If that is how NASCAR wishes to conduct their business, that's fine with me.
Just as in baseball, I would ten times rather pay 1/10 of the price to see hungry up and comers in Late Model Sportsman than any Cup race. It's still roots stock-car racing. I have never had anything to do with anyone or anything once big money touched them or it. Big money has ruined more than one professional sport and continues to do so. Well, just as I say about baseball, they can ruin the top end of the game, but they cannot ruin the game. same with stock car racing, I'll take mine in doses of wild young boys and men giving their all on a Saturday night and getting little in return. Denny Hamlin came from this series, as did Elliott Sadler and the Burton brothers. NASCAR can keep their pretty boys, give me a redneck driving a jalopy any day.
As to Denny trying to take JJ out, I'd say after Martinsville, he's due one. Seems Kurt Busch didn't have too many kind words to say about JJ either. JJ is a nasty driver that just appears squeeky clean, he'll take you out and apoligize after the fact.
I'll skip Indy, but watch the Glen, then stay away from Cup racing until Bristol. Hopefully, there will be a better race there than the past three. If not, NASCAR may as well write some new words or read the writing on the wall they have already written. People are PO'd at NASCAR Ed and nothing good people like you or my artist friend Garry Hill says in their defense will save them.
Caz
Just as in baseball, I would ten times rather pay 1/10 of the price to see hungry up and comers in Late Model Sportsman than any Cup race. It's still roots stock-car racing. I have never had anything to do with anyone or anything once big money touched them or it. Big money has ruined more than one professional sport and continues to do so. Well, just as I say about baseball, they can ruin the top end of the game, but they cannot ruin the game. same with stock car racing, I'll take mine in doses of wild young boys and men giving their all on a Saturday night and getting little in return. Denny Hamlin came from this series, as did Elliott Sadler and the Burton brothers. NASCAR can keep their pretty boys, give me a redneck driving a jalopy any day.
As to Denny trying to take JJ out, I'd say after Martinsville, he's due one. Seems Kurt Busch didn't have too many kind words to say about JJ either. JJ is a nasty driver that just appears squeeky clean, he'll take you out and apoligize after the fact.
I'll skip Indy, but watch the Glen, then stay away from Cup racing until Bristol. Hopefully, there will be a better race there than the past three. If not, NASCAR may as well write some new words or read the writing on the wall they have already written. People are PO'd at NASCAR Ed and nothing good people like you or my artist friend Garry Hill says in their defense will save them.
Caz
Honestly, I was pulling for Jeff Gordon too, but it’s cool to see Mark Martin win again.
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Chicagoland, according to the drivers, has changed since the first race they ever ran there, in 2001, not that very long ago. Back then it was a single groove track (boring?), now, after eight years of “weathering”, it’s a multi-groove track (exciting?). I thought it was a good race. Any sport in any time period can be described in terms that make it sound ridiculous and boring. Baseball? Throw the ball, hit the ball, run around in a circle, what? Golf? Hit the ball, run after it, hit it again, run after it. This is exciting? Football? You try to get the ball to my zone, and I try to get it to yours. Big deal! Racing? So they drive around in circles! Any moron can do that! See?
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Mark Martin says racing “back in the day” was “easy” compared to today. Interesting… I thought it was a good race. I agree with the corporate sponsorship has spoiled it in some way. I much prefer the “Firecracker 400” to the “Coke-Zero 400”, and “Candlestick Park” to “3-Comm Park”! But when the green flag drops, I don’t know that so much has changed.
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Then there’s Bristol. Used to be a single groove track (exciting!), now it’s a multi-groove track (boring!!) Go figure. Sports fans are confusing!!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o>Chicagoland, according to the drivers, has changed since the first race they ever ran there, in 2001, not that very long ago. Back then it was a single groove track (boring?), now, after eight years of “weathering”, it’s a multi-groove track (exciting?). I thought it was a good race. Any sport in any time period can be described in terms that make it sound ridiculous and boring. Baseball? Throw the ball, hit the ball, run around in a circle, what? Golf? Hit the ball, run after it, hit it again, run after it. This is exciting? Football? You try to get the ball to my zone, and I try to get it to yours. Big deal! Racing? So they drive around in circles! Any moron can do that! See?
<o
></o>Mark Martin says racing “back in the day” was “easy” compared to today. Interesting… I thought it was a good race. I agree with the corporate sponsorship has spoiled it in some way. I much prefer the “Firecracker 400” to the “Coke-Zero 400”, and “Candlestick Park” to “3-Comm Park”! But when the green flag drops, I don’t know that so much has changed.
<o
></o>Then there’s Bristol. Used to be a single groove track (exciting!), now it’s a multi-groove track (boring!!) Go figure. Sports fans are confusing!!
Hey All,
Hmmm where to start....
First with respect to NASCAR popularity I think that the economy (who has the money?) and one other factor really explain the drop-off. I believe that the death of Dale made NASCAR a popular "fad" for a lot of "fans". Morbid isn't it. I've no doubt they enjoyed the events but I don't think they really are/were "died in the wool" "washed in the blood" race fans. The thrill is wearing off - and when you combine that with the economy you get what we got - although it certainly hasn't totally died.
I also think that NASCAR has to some extent misread what fans want. I don't think fans want multi-groove short track racing - they want irritation, temper tantrums, drivers getting out of wrecked cars and throwing helmets - at Bristol for example I think thats what the fans want not what we got. You get that with single groove or groove and a half tracks.
At the superspeedways I think NASCAR - mostly by accident - have figured out what fans want. The possibility of the "big one" and the endings to the last two races will make superspeedways fan favorites - see if I'm right! Don't misunderstand me I think fans want safety and with the COT they have it - look at the wrecks people just walk away from - but that said mayhem is a part of racing.
What to do with the mile and a halfs - I'm not sure - some are good some are boring. Road races are what road races are.
As for NASCAR and the south - the south lost NASCAR to the rest of the USA a long time ago. Fans who think differently need to "get over it". Honor the past and move on. I assume those people know that over time the drivers from the deep south will become fewer and fewer as the numbers are elsewhere - they better get used to it. Besides what can NASCAR do about it? Bar drivers from anywhere but the deep south? Not likely.
As for big money in sport I don't know what to say except there is toooooooo much. A local short track on a Saturday night is good but so is Daytona. so...
As for JJ he races clean - hard but clean and his roots are as blue collar as any driver in NASCAR past or present - no silver spoon anywhere close to him at any time in his past.
-Ed-
Hmmm where to start....
First with respect to NASCAR popularity I think that the economy (who has the money?) and one other factor really explain the drop-off. I believe that the death of Dale made NASCAR a popular "fad" for a lot of "fans". Morbid isn't it. I've no doubt they enjoyed the events but I don't think they really are/were "died in the wool" "washed in the blood" race fans. The thrill is wearing off - and when you combine that with the economy you get what we got - although it certainly hasn't totally died.
I also think that NASCAR has to some extent misread what fans want. I don't think fans want multi-groove short track racing - they want irritation, temper tantrums, drivers getting out of wrecked cars and throwing helmets - at Bristol for example I think thats what the fans want not what we got. You get that with single groove or groove and a half tracks.
At the superspeedways I think NASCAR - mostly by accident - have figured out what fans want. The possibility of the "big one" and the endings to the last two races will make superspeedways fan favorites - see if I'm right! Don't misunderstand me I think fans want safety and with the COT they have it - look at the wrecks people just walk away from - but that said mayhem is a part of racing.
What to do with the mile and a halfs - I'm not sure - some are good some are boring. Road races are what road races are.
As for NASCAR and the south - the south lost NASCAR to the rest of the USA a long time ago. Fans who think differently need to "get over it". Honor the past and move on. I assume those people know that over time the drivers from the deep south will become fewer and fewer as the numbers are elsewhere - they better get used to it. Besides what can NASCAR do about it? Bar drivers from anywhere but the deep south? Not likely.
As for big money in sport I don't know what to say except there is toooooooo much. A local short track on a Saturday night is good but so is Daytona. so...
As for JJ he races clean - hard but clean and his roots are as blue collar as any driver in NASCAR past or present - no silver spoon anywhere close to him at any time in his past.
-Ed-
I haven't watched a single NASCAR event since Dale died. I grew up rooting for him, he was MY driver, MY racer. When he died, NASCAR died along with him. Who was there to root for after Number 3, The Man In Black, The Intimidator? Gordon? That was as likely as me shaving my butt and wearing a thong to the beach. Stewart? He's was a pistol back then, but still could not hold a candle to Dale. Jr? He just wishes he was a tenth the driver his daddy was. The other drivers I could have gotten behind had already retired and become race common taters or had grown old and were just barely still in the game.
NASCAR has taken so much of the competition out of the cars....it really doesn't matter if you are a Chevy fan, a Ford fan, a Dodge fan, a Toyota fan (what the heck is up with that anyhow?)...the cars are all pretty much the same now days. Restrictor plates, standardized body lines. The only things that distinguish a Chevy from a Ford are the stickers on the nose. There's not a car on that track that looks anything like the cars on the roads....and that is what stock cars are all about down deep...guys racing the same kind of cars you and I own. It used to make us feel like WE were driving race cars when we hopped into our Monte Carlos that looked just like the one Dale Earnhardt won the race in..other than the stickers and 900 HP motor...but the only time I can feel any connection with the cars they race now days is when I am sitting in my bath tub.
I still wear my Earnhardt hats (purchased before his death, thank you very much), I have a Gordon hat that I wear from time to time (my mother-in-law bought it for me for my birthday...she knows I like hats and it really is a high quality hat...not one of the cheap gas station ones...so I wear it because it was given to me with love, not because it has Gordon's name and number on it). I have someone's Budweiser hat...can't read the signature on it as it is just one big squiggle...as if he is ashamed of his name, as my grand dad would say. That is as close to NASCAR as I get these days.
OBIO
NASCAR has taken so much of the competition out of the cars....it really doesn't matter if you are a Chevy fan, a Ford fan, a Dodge fan, a Toyota fan (what the heck is up with that anyhow?)...the cars are all pretty much the same now days. Restrictor plates, standardized body lines. The only things that distinguish a Chevy from a Ford are the stickers on the nose. There's not a car on that track that looks anything like the cars on the roads....and that is what stock cars are all about down deep...guys racing the same kind of cars you and I own. It used to make us feel like WE were driving race cars when we hopped into our Monte Carlos that looked just like the one Dale Earnhardt won the race in..other than the stickers and 900 HP motor...but the only time I can feel any connection with the cars they race now days is when I am sitting in my bath tub.
I still wear my Earnhardt hats (purchased before his death, thank you very much), I have a Gordon hat that I wear from time to time (my mother-in-law bought it for me for my birthday...she knows I like hats and it really is a high quality hat...not one of the cheap gas station ones...so I wear it because it was given to me with love, not because it has Gordon's name and number on it). I have someone's Budweiser hat...can't read the signature on it as it is just one big squiggle...as if he is ashamed of his name, as my grand dad would say. That is as close to NASCAR as I get these days.
OBIO
I don't know why you get worked up over JJ and Kurt? My god, this kind of thing has been going on in NASCAR since it began! Fighting to be champ, people get excited and get after each other, no big deal!
Maybe you should check out these pic's to remind yourself what kind of feuds have been going on in NASCAR over the years.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/pgStory?contentId=8363014#sport=NASCAR&photo=8363398
