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Have we discussed 64 bit?

H

Human Drone

Guest
Well, the look has sure changed since I last logged in! Did I see something about a crash or hack? Or is this the result of an upgrade I read about during the bandwidth drive?

Anyway, the world is moving on. Microsoft has given ACES the pink slip, old news, but now Windows 7 is out and most serious machines are 64 bit. That puts addressable memory through the roof in comparison to what we're used to, and my new machine will likely have at least 8 GB of RAM.

And we still have our 32 bit FS's, especially the CFS2 and 3 that we all love. Do you see my question? Is it worth trying to develop, or petitioning Microsoft, on behalf of a large, active, and committed (even commitable!:jump:) FS community for 64 bit versions of these venerable sims?

Just curious...

Best to all,

Tom
 
Yes, sir, I did. But that does not convert the executable to a 64-bit application, it only allows it to run in a "compatibility mode" - i.e. a 32 bit executable on a 64 bit machine.

Now, I've never done add-on-work, much less anything like PTO, MAW, ETO, OFF, etc, but I know flight sims in general need all the resources they can get their mitts on, and to be able to have 64-bit addressing I thought might help. But it requires rebuilding the executable from source using a 64-bit compiler, as far as I know. Plus, not having to deal with an extra layer of instructions that allow 32 bit apps to run on 64-bit machines should increase their speeds (frame rates, frame rates, frame rates...)

Tom
 
to have 64-bit addressing I thought might help. But it requires rebuilding the executable from source using a 64-bit compiler, as far as I know. Plus, not having to deal with an extra layer of instructions that allow 32 bit apps to run on 64-bit machines should increase their speeds
Click to expand...

:isadizzy:Don't know what you chaps are talking about but it sounds very impressive!

I should have paid more attention at college. :icon_lol:
 
Pat Pattle said:
:isadizzy:Don't know what you chaps are talking about but it sounds very impressive!

I should have paid more attention at college. :icon_lol:
Click to expand...

Not at all. The important thing is to look as though everything is fine, and say,

"Good show, chaps, let me know when you've finished."

That wasn't college, that was basic Officer Training!
 
Human Drone said:
Is it worth trying to develop, or petitioning Microsoft, on behalf of a large, active, and committed (even commitable!:jump:) FS community for 64 bit versions of these venerable sims?
Tom
Click to expand...

Don't think so, you've already answered your question as far as the Aces studio goes and these were the guys with the experience. If MS are not even doing a patch for FSX under Win7 (oh how I snigger every time it says it's reverting to Basic colour scheme on starting that sim) then we have precious little chance.

BTW, CFS3 runs just fine under 64-bit Win7, subject to setting compatibility correctly, and Tailwind et al have cracked the multiplayer problem too - see the stickies
 
Well, hope springs eternal...

What I'm on about is that, with 32 registers, the most memory (RAM or virtual) that can be addressed is 4 GB, or 2^32 (2 to the 32nd power). Now a system that had 33 bit registers (stupid, but bear with me a minute here) could address twice that - 8 GB, and 34 bit, twice that (16 GB), but the jump has been made to 64 bit, which is an incomprehensible amount of memory (for at least the next year or so!) , like 4.2 Billion x 4GB, I don't even want to look up the prefix for whatever huge number it is. I understand Windows 7 has actually been limited artificially in address space because the number is so ludicrous.

Between this and the multi-core processors, our resource-hungry sport could be made just that much more advanced, with different processes in the sim running on different cores, and enough RAM in the machine to prevent the dreaded swap-to-disk. And for us, the multiple cores could likely up the ante with much more traffic, all that stuff. I've seen systems running 3 monitors with the TrackIR and all that; these would be just that much smoother, planes all over the sky, stuff happening on the ground, on the water... And of course, there are rumblings about 3D...

I've been at these things off and on since the DOS version of Flight Simulator, and the advances are incredible, I just don't see why they have to stop here. Somebody will do it, but will it be the open-source style that the dear folks here have worked so hard and so ably to advance?

Anyway, just a thought or two...
 
Well, here's another thought for you. If all hardware development was frozen as of now, it would take years for software to catch up with what the hardware is actually capable of. It's often said the Apollo lunar missions used computers spectacularly less powerful than the typical pocket calculator, but just think what these early machines actually did.

Also consider that it's taken 8 years for CFS3 freeware to get to the level it has in ETO and MAW - how long do you think it will take developers to get to the very bottom of FSX, now the code is effectively frozen?

The hardware's horsepower is not the limit, it's the software and that means people and their brainpower. Just my tuppence ha'penny.
 
Well, you have a point there. Maybe just the extra speed and being able to run our sims on a dedicated core will be enough to get us through. Still, I'd like to see native 64 bit code. Anal or OCD, that's likely my problem.

Here's to you, developers! :guinness: It'd be a poor sim withoutcha!
 
I hope to get time to istall ETO on my new i7 windows 7 machine this weekend. It is a 64bit machine so it is a pity I won't be able to take advantage of the 12g of ram it has.
However it is great for Gmax using my 24 inch screen. I thought Gmax would have trouble with windows 7, but it is fine. Really helps these old eyes when you are doing unwrapping work. I recommend a 24inch screen to everyone who is modeling. Also great in the sim. You get a much better view.
 
Screens are like cars! You get a bigger one, and very soon, you start thinking about it's successor! I've got a 24" screen as well... Much better than anything I've had so far. Next, it'll be the wall projector!
 
I want a wall size plasma or LED display......man, that would be too cool for school!!!.... I'd love to see a modified CFS3 to make better use of and take full advantage of multi-core processors, 64 bit architecture, and the newer developments in graphics processing like Physx and ambient occlusion..... that would really light the burners on this SIM. I have been running CFS3 and all the variations and expansions on a 64 bit Vista Ultimate PC with 4Gb RAM a Core 2 Duo CPU, and GeForce 9800 GTX GPUs in SLI (all the above overclocked to the edge of stability, and liquid cooled) for over 3 years now....I ran it on Windows XP Pro 32 bit prior to that..... and for a few painful months on Vista 32 bit.....and I can say the increase in performance and visual detail when I switched to 64 bit Vista Ultimate was like the difference between night and day........Same with my Win 7 Ultimate x64 rig, it bumped it all up a notch or two over Vista X64, but that is mainly due to better memory allottment and management in Win 7 I believe.... I can just imagine the increase in graphics detail and frame rates if CFS3 was modded to be a native 64 bit application....and to keep up with the ever expanding advances in Central and Graphics processors..... But I think it would end up having to be called CFS4.....the battle for frame rates..... I am not a code writer by any means but I would imagine there would be quite a bit involved in migrating the SIM from 32 but to 64 bit and keeping up with the graphics options and multi-core CPUs too....

Oh well.... untill CFS4 is released, I can only dream and keep on tweaking it.....
 
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! A sim where you have three displays maxxed out, planes all over the place... you KNOW 3D is on it's way...

The man is right, we HAVE about maxxed this sim out, it would seem, and all I'm saying is, I know that it really wouldn't need to be modified much, just re-complied and properly vectorized to take advantage of the multiple cores that seem to be the only real "speed" increase wer're going to get - has anybody else noticed we've been kinda "stuck" at the 3 GHz speed (stock) and 4 GHz (for overclockers) for several years now? Well, the best and luckiest overclockers with just the right chips at the far end of the bell curve might get 4.5 GHz...

You'd have memory address space that you wouldn't believe. And somebody WILL do it. 64 bit software is how it's going to be. I just wish it was in the grand tradition of the MS Sims...y'all have done so much, and to see it fully fleshed out, sliders maxxed, on a new high speed multicore machine would be just grand (if I could afford it!)
 
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