Help with Hold Heading Autopilot

[Kodiak]

I enjoy flying in Spot View while in transit a lot of the time and with almost all of the old planes (circa 1920's and 1930's) even if there is not an autopilot historically I can enable autopilot in the cfg file and get Hold Altitude and Hold Heading.

But on a handful this doesn't work with Hold Heading such as the stock Ford Trimotor. I get Hold Altitude just fine, but on Hold Heading it starts to rock back and forth with each bank more severe than the prior bank until it just banks itself out of control. I can tell it is trying to hold heading as it rocks back and forth but it is a losing battle.

Is there anything I can do to fix this on the few planes I've found with this problem?

Thanks!

 

[glh]

Kodiak:

You might want to bookmark this post for future reference:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49167-How-about-some-simple-instructions-for-tweaking-aircraft-cfg-files

OK. Those old planes you fly weren't set up for autopilot so if I were you, I would start this way ---

A Cessna 172 autopilot should work well enough to pilot these old planes so let's stay there.

1.) Go into the C172 .cfg file. Copy the [autopilot] section to the aircraft you want to use.

2.) There will be [.indicator] entries in the C172 .cfg file. I believe there are 3 or 4 entries. Copy those
entries that are missing from the plane you want to fly from the C172 file.

3.) Copy the autopilot entry in the [electrical] section of the C172 to your plane.

At this point, try this and see if it works. You have a trim gauge which is a (electrically servo-controlled) pitch indicator so it will hold altitude. However, I don't believe the stock compass is controlled electrically. I am not sure but you may have to incorporate the C172 HSI gauge on a separate panel.

I believe you are just missing a [direction.indicator] entry in your .cfg file that will work for you.

Obviously, BACK UP your original files before you make any mods I have suggested to you. Read the above post. Good Luck and have fun.

 

[Tom Clayton]

One note about copying the C172 electrical section. Keep the Ford's line that reads engine_generator_map= 0,1,0 so that you keep just the nose engine as the one with a generator.

I had my TriMotor set up with "Otto" a few installs ago - can't believe I haven't done it with the current one. I'm going to test a few things, and if everything works out, I'll post my aircraft and panel files here.

 

[Tom Clayton]

OK - these mods worked well on a short test flight. It now tracks a VOR radial, GPS, and will darn near auto-land itself with the ILS/Glideslope. Modification details are in the Readme.

 

[Kodiak]

Wow, thanks for the quick response, guys!

I'll try this config.zip file but I also really appreciate the explanation on how to go about tweaking it myself! It kinda sorta makes sense and I'm getting a little better at working with the cfg file so will have a go at the 4 or 5 planes I can't get to hold heading.

Cheers!

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks for the zip file for the Trimotor, Tom!

Worked like a charm on the Trimotor, and with a little bit of cut and paste it also worked on the Boeing Model 80. I now have hold heading on both planes

The only other two that I can remember having the same problem are the MAC Flamingo and the ANT-20, so I'm going to have a look at those two and see if I can come up with similar changes to get hold heading on them also. I downloaded the ANT-20 thinking I would fly it once out of curiosity and then delete it, but it turned out to be a lot of fun. Not on the level of a Martin Shupe model, but nicely done in its own right, and they've got the momentum of its weight done nicely. You feel like you're flying the largest aircraft of its time as you crawl down the runway and into the air...lol

From what I understand based on the info in this thread whether I can use your Trimotor enhancements will depend on what type of compass is used in the plane model, so I may be back if I get stuck, but will have a go at it and maybe learn something!

 

[Tom Clayton]

I can normally pick things apart and figure them out, but I needed help when I wanted to do this the first time too. It was Gerry Beckwith, AKA Sparks that got me pointed in the right direction with the gyros. I still have a copy of my original thread that I save for reference!

 

[Kodiak]

Hi guys,

I'm back for some help. Between the tips and files above I've been able to add hold heading to 3 or 4 vintage planes so far. But I'm stumped on the Metal Aircraft Corporation Flamingo. No matter what I do I can't get a hold heading that will work. The Flamingo behaves exactly like the stock Trimotor, but when I applied the above files for the Trimotor fix (which worked in also fixing the Boeing Model 80) the Flamingo doesn't like them and continues to rock back and forth until out of control.

If anybody out there has already added a hold heading to the Flamingo I would appreciate some help (or files), or if not, then if anybody has the time at some point it would be greatly appreciated if you could take a look at the Flamingo, as I'm stumped. I don't need anything fancy, just a hold heading so I don't have to sit glued to the stick for hours on end. The Flamingo holds altitude just fine.

I don't understand the panel file completely, but well enough to snip the bits I needed from the Trimotor panel to fix the Boeing Model 80, but those same lines didn't help the Flamingo. Also went the route with the C172 instructions from above (which worked for me on another plane), but no joy with the Flamingo.

Thanks again!

Bill

 

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi Bill, With the Flamingo you will ned to alter the cfg a little to make it accept the Autopilot- change 0 to 1 for that and change the Radios section a bit so that it can follow a VOR
This is the autopilot I use in the Trimotor:

Window09=ap


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window09]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=541,238
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=75
window_size= 0.400, 0.240
window_pos= 0.590, 0.010

gauge00=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_autopilot_main, 359,2,181,236
gauge01=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_autopilot_hdg, 180,2,178,163
gauge02=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_ils, 182,167,175,69
gauge03=Dh89a_autopilot!nav1_radio, 2,2,177,232


and added the DH89 CAB file to the Ford panel folder....I guess a similar sort of set-up might work in the Flamingo!

I also changed the Radio to the VC810 avionics, a beautiful gauge and panel set up from Rick Piper Viscount series ...it looks almost antique, but it very straightforward to use.

Andy.

 

[Kodiak]

Thank you, lemonadedrinker!

This worked perfectly in the Flamingo

Now here's my next question...it didn't work for the Bristol Type 26 Pullman, another one I'm trying to get to hold heading.

And my question is why?

It seems to me in my limited knowledge that an extra section added to the panel.cfg (like above), plus the associated CAB file for the gauges used, plus adjusting the Indicators in the aircraft.cfg file to match, the AP should work in the background. I did all these things with the Flamingo and it worked. But I did the exact same things for the Pullman, and it didn't. What am I missing?

I guess I'm looking for a canned way to add hold heading to these old vintage planes when I download one that doesn't have it. Am I too optimistic? Is it really a unique jigsaw puzzle for each plane even when the required gauges are added and running in the background.

Thanks!

Bill

 

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,

I think that now we are arriving at the limit of my scanty knowledge. Tom Clayton will come and rescue you!
What I feel you need to do is;
1. copy the whole section labelled Autopilot from an aircraft cfg that has one.
2. Paste it into your aircraft cfg.
3.If you are using that DH89 gauge, remember to add that CAB file to the panel as well. You also need to paste in that same info posted before under Window09
4. Paste it into the existing Radio Window, if you don't mind losing the hand held one.
5. I think it should appear when you click the Autopilot icon.

I downloaded that airplane and I'll try it out later.
Cheers
Andy.

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks for taking a look at the Pullman, Andy.

I had hoped to learn enough to not have to come back each time I download an aircraft without autopilot and ask "Can someone please fix this plane for me?"

But the Pullman has me stumped once again.

What you've offered above makes sense, and I've tired using the autopilot sections from aircraft.cfg, panel.cfg and cab files from the Trimotor, C172, and now the DH.89 on the Pullman, but no joy.

Well, if you get it figured out for the Pullman I'll try to study what you've done and hopefully learn something from it.

This might be a good article for someone to write who knows this stuff inside and out, including a sure fire fix to add hold heading (if there is such a thing). I always Google each plane to see if someone has already done it, and adding hold heading seems to be a highly searched topic with few answers...sometimes fixes, but no real explanation. Even the planes I've fixed using what I was taught in this thread have all been different and I couldn't explain why one fix worked for one and not the other...lol

Bill

 

[Tom Clayton]

There are also heading and attitude indicator settings that need to be specified in the aircraft.cfg in order for any autopilot to work. Here's an html file copied from a thread that was lost two or three forum server crashes back. To this day, I still refer back to the info in it when I want to add a modern AP. Most, if not all of the links are now dead, but the info in the thread itself is still good.

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks for this html file, Tom.

Maybe some more pieces are coming together for me, and I wasn't persistent enough with the Pullman.

After reading through your html file I went after another plane (the GAS Boeing Model 40) that doesn't have an autopilot. I used Andy's approach with the DH.89 panel section and cab file again. Then set up the indicators and autopilot section in the aircraft.cfg to match those of the DH.89 and my now working Flamingo, and it didn't work (just like the Pullman). So then I tried a different turn_indicator value, and got hold heading (but still no altitude hold). So I tried a different attitude_indicator value and got altitude hold, and I'm good to go.

So this is what I think I'm doing:

1. By adding the DH.89 cab file I've made available the AP gauges I need, which are then defined by adding the AP section in the panel.cfg (Andy's example)

2. Then the indicator values are creating a link telling the AP gauges what type (or how to talk to) the turn and attitude gauges used by that aircraft.

Since each aircraft can have different types of turn and attitude gauges, even though I'm using the same DH.89 AP gauges I will always need to experiment with the link between the two that is defined in the indicator values.

That's a question, not a statement...lol (but it seems like that is what is happening).

Thanks, Tom (and Andy)!

Bill

P.S. Since my favorite era is the 1920's and 1930's I'm starting to realize I'm going to have to get somewhat proficient at this. Just bought the GAS Boeing Model 40 and, "oh no, no autopilot!"

 

[Tom Clayton]

I should have thought of this sooner...

There may also be electrical issues as well. If you have electric gyros, but no electrical system to drive them, you still won't get anywhere. Since virtually all of the planes I add AP to are piston-pushers, I prefer to set up everything as all electric. I like to copy the electrical section from the C182 to provide the needed power, then set all my gyros up as electric too. In face, I set my direction indicator as type 3 ("electro-mag slaved") so that I don't have to constantly compensate for gyro drift. Then, I also copy the autopilot and radios section from the same C182 to work with my special com-nav popup panel, which is used to replace whatever is in place for the existing radio panel:

[WindowXX]
Background_color=128,128,128 //Only black shows up invisible, so this eliminates the need for a background bitmap.
size_mm= 359,313
window_size=0.45 //Adjust this number to fit your needs.
position= 0
visible=0
ident=RADIO_STACK_PANEL
gauge00=Bendix_King_Radio!Bendix-King Radio AP, 1, 2, 176
gauge01=bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 1, 180, 2, 176
gauge02=bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 2, 180, 67, 176
gauge03=bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio Xpndr, 180, 133, 176
gauge04=Bendix_King_Radio!Bendix-King Radio DME, 180, 187, 176
gauge05=Bendix_King_Radio!Bendix-King Radio ADF, 180, 232, 176
gauge06=Bendix_King_Radio!Bendix-King Radio Audio, 180, 278, 176
gauge07=Extra-300!Pitch-Trim, 126, 104, 35
gauge08=Lear_45!Nav GPS Switch, 133, 59, 20
gauge09=Cessna208!Horizontal-Indicator, 1, 80, 113
gauge10=Mooney_Bravo!OMI Lights, 38, 56, 50
gauge11=Beech_Baron!RMI,32,195,113,113

Notice that everything is stock gauges and no bitmap is needed. Also, if the neutral gray doesn't go with your panel, it's easy enough to adjust by tweaking the RGB numbers in the background color line.

 

[Kodiak]

Thanks for this info, Tom.

I feel like I'm in the ballpark now on how to do this, although it doesn't seem foolproof yet. I'm batting better than 50% in my attempts to add autopilot to these vintage planes and with each piece of information added to my bag of tricks I'm doing better. Thanks to everyone who has posted information in this thread.

Bill

 

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi,
I got really bogged down with the Pullman...it really is the worst handling airplane I've ever tried to fly

I am assuming that Ted Cook intended it that way and so high praise to him...I image that the early days of flight were highly lethal to men and machines, but this one was too much for me..all my fillings have been jarred out and my eyeballs were swiveling so much I completely missed the airport and crashed in the Chicken Curry place next to it.
Can you please post up a panel cfg of a plane where the AP doesn't work for you...I'm sure Tom has helped you already, but this is just for my own interest; sometimes even a comma in the wrong place will stymie an installation And also have you remembered to add the autopilot section to the aircraft .cfg and saved it before closing out ?

Andy.

 

[Kodiak]

Ok, Andy, I'll post a panel file and any help will be appreciated. I've got four or five planes that whipped me that I gave up on (the Pullman being one). I always start again by unzipping the file to make sure I'm starting fresh. I'll unzip a different plane and give it my best effort and then post the panel file plus electrical, indicators and autopilot sections from the aircraft file.

Thanks!

Bill

 

[Kodiak]

Hi Andy,

My latest progress report. I had downloaded the SM S.73 recently, and the hold heading worked fine, but there was no hold altitude (first time I had run into that). So I unzipped it again and started fresh using your DH.89 approach from above plus I copied the entire electrical section from the DH.89 also (based on Tom's post above), and success!

So I went back and immediately tried that approach with the Pullman, but no luck. I won't hit you with the Pullman, so I'll move on and try the Dornier X next (which rocks back and forth until out of control like the TriMotor did). I had tried to fix it in the past, but I didn't do a complete electrical section replacement, so will have another go at it and if that doesn't work I'll post my changes here. I appreciate you taking a look at them. I just retired from an IT career where I came up as an Assembler language programmer, so I understand the importance of a misplaced comma and it never hurts for someone else to look at your code changes. Slowly, one by one, I seem to be making progress, and at some point maybe I'll entirely understand what I'm doing...lol

Cheers!

Bill

P.S. Maybe Edward Cook is the only guy who can put an autopilot on the Pullman...lol I understand why he wouldn't, as it didn't have one. But Edward, if you ever happen upon this thread please consider an autopilot on the Pullman. I understand it would be inappropriate on a vintage panel from the Pullman's era, but a simple hidden autopilot with hold heading and hold altitude that can be run from a pop-up window would allow me to turn the plane over to the co-pilot and enjoy the view while in transit. And allowing the co-pilot to take the controls wouldn't violate your efforts towards authenticity

 

[lemonadedrinker]

Hi, I found it quite awkward to post up images of panel changes as they become too blurred to read...! but I'm going to post up a panel cfg as text and see if that works, so here goes

OK this is from the beautiful G12..


[Window Titles]
//Window00=2D COCKPIT VIEW <<<just to lose the 2D window, the following Window numbers must be reset.
Window00=RDF PLOT <<<< now the FS9 big GPS.
Window01=PART OF WIRELESS OPERATORS PANEL
Window02=PART OF FLIGHT ENGINEER PANEL
Window03=EXTRA GAUGES <<<< DH89 Autopilot see below!


[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=0,GPS_PANEL,RADIO_STACK_PANEL,200,150

VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=10.5, 0.000, 0.000





//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Window00]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=337,281
window_size=0.5
position=6
visible=0
ident=GPS_PANEL

gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500, 0,0,337,281


//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Window01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=680, 335
window_size=0.485
position=6
visible=0
ident=RADIO_STACK_PANEL

gauge00=G12_V10!Radio, 0,0,680,335

//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Window02]
file=G12_panel2.bmp
size_mm=353,544
window_size=0.25
position=6
visible=0
ident=200

gauge00=G12_V10!pcmeneg_master_ign, 88,445,99,98
gauge01=G12_V10!pcmeneg_magn1, 2,371,90,89
gauge02=G12_V10!pcmeneg_magn2, 93,344,90,89
gauge03=G12_V10!pcmeneg_magn3, 184,371,90,89
gauge04=G12_V10!pcmeneg_fuel_centr_e, 306,334,20,200
gauge05=G12_V10!pcmeneg_fuel_left_e, 284,334,20,200
gauge06=G12_V10!pcmeneg_fuel_right_e, 327,334,20,200
gauge07=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_starter1, 207,470,24,67
gauge08=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_starter2, 231,470,24,67
gauge09=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_starter3, 255,470,24,67
gauge10=G12_V10!pcmeneg_CHT1, 5,25,114,111
gauge11=G12_V10!pcmeneg_CHT2, 120,25,114,111
gauge12=G12_V10!pcmeneg_CHT3, 238,25,114,111
gauge13=G12_V10!pcmeneg_carb_temp1, 0,255,93,93
gauge14=G12_V10!pcmeneg_carb_temp2, 94, 255 ,93,93
gauge15=G12_V10!pcmeneg_carb_temp3, 188,255,93,93
gauge16=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_oiltemp1, 0,139,117,117
gauge17=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_oiltemp2, 118,139,117,117
gauge18=G12_V10!pcmeneg_S81_oiltemp3, 236,139,117,117
gauge19=G12_V10!pcmeneg_prop_de-ice, 12,483,31,46
gauge20=G12_V10!pcmeneg_struct_de-ice, 53,483,31,46
gauge21=dsd_view_skip!no_2d, 0,0,5,5 <<<<<This is a fantastic gauge from Doug Dawson to pass over empty 2D or VC views.


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=541,238
window_size=0.4755
position=0
visible=0
ident=75


gauge00=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_autopilot_main, 359,2,181,236
gauge01=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_autopilot_hdg, 180,2,178,163
gauge02=Dh89a_autopilot!Dh89a_ils, 182,167,175,69
gauge03=Dh89a_autopilot!nav1_radio, 2,2,177,232


//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0
pixel_size=512
texture=$G12_1

gauge00=g12_v10!pcmeneg_alt_10000, 0,0,159,178
gauge01=g12_v10!pcmeneg_turn, 167,0,117,117
gauge02=g12_v10!mvg_IAS_450m, 288,0,200,200
gauge03=G12_V10!pcmeneg_SS_attitude, 0,179,159,176
gauge04=g12_v10!pcmeneg_gear_G12_vc, 172,202,175,175
gauge05=g12_v10!pcmeneg_press_gear, 0,358,120,120
gauge06=g12_v10!pcmeneg_press_flap, 122,380,120,120
gauge07=g12_v10!pcmeneg_feather_lights, 348,201,162,31
gauge08=g12_v10!compass_popup, 349,235,162,163
gauge09=g12_v10!pcmeneg_vacuum, 244,400,111,110
gauge10=g12_v10!pcmeneg_press10, 175,118,78,81
gauge11=g12_v10!pcmeneg_press50, 356,400,78,81
gauge12=simicons1024!kneeboard icon, 436,413,19,19
gauge13=simicons1024!map icon, 455,413,19,19
gauge14=simicons1024!atc icon, 474, 413 ,19,19
gauge15=simicons1024!gps icon, 436,432,19,19
gauge16=simicons1024!radio icon, 455,432,19,19
gauge17=simicons1024!engine instruments icon, 474,432,19,19
gauge18=g12_v10!extra_gauges_icon, 493,432,19,19


//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Vcockpit02]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0
pixel_size=512
texture=$G12_2

gauge00=g12_v10!pcmeneg_eng1_press_S81, 0,0,133,133
gauge01=g12_v10!pcmeneg_eng2_press_S81, 135,0,133,133
gauge02=g12_v10!pcmeneg_eng3_press_S81, 270,0,133,133
gauge03=g12_v10!mvg_ita_rpm_m1, 0,134,143,144
gauge04=g12_v10!mvg_ita_rpm_m2, 144,134,143,144
gauge05=g12_v10!mvg_ita_rpm_m3, 289,134,143,144
gauge06=g12_v10!mvg_ita_oilpress_m1, 0,403,102,102
gauge07=g12_v10!mvg_ita_oilpress_m2, 103,403,102,102
gauge08=g12_v10!mvg_ita_oilpress_m3, 205,403,102,102
gauge09=g12_v10!mvg_ita_fpress_m1, 309,403,98,98
gauge10=g12_v10!mvg_ita_fpress_m2, 368,303,98,98
gauge11=g12_v10!mvg_ita_fpress_m3, 408,403,98,98
gauge12=g12_v10!pcmeneg_compass_tag, 433,134,79,164


//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Vcockpit03]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0
pixel_size=512
texture=$G12_3

gauge00=g12_v10!pcmeneg_S81_Vspeed, 0,0,153,153
gauge01=g12_v10!pcmeneg_SS_gyro, 154,0,200,200
gauge02=g12_v10!mvg_ita_ORA_m, 358,0,150,150
gauge03=g12_v10!sperry_autopilot, 0,309,335,203
gauge04=g12_v10!pcmeneg_RG37_IRR, 0,155,154,71
gauge05=g12_v10!pcmeneg_cowlG12_1, 421,311,30,200
gauge06=g12_v10!pcmeneg_cowlG12_2, 451,311,30,200
gauge07=g12_v10!pcmeneg_cowlG12_3, 481,311,30,200
gauge08=g12_v10!pcmeneg_low_fuel_lights, 356,150,152,30
gauge09=g12_v10!pcmeneg_deviation, 0,228,180,60
gauge10=g12_v10!pcmeneg_OAT, 392,186,120,120


//++++++++++++++++++++++++
[Vcockpit04]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=512,512
visible=0
pixel_size=512
texture=$G12_4

gauge00=g12_v10!radio_compass_mf, 340,0,143,144
gauge01=g12_v10!aeg_afn1_8dme_VC, 204,0,135,135



[Color]
Day=255,255,255
Night=225,117,89
Luminous=200,200,101

[Default View]
X=0
Y=0
SIZE_X=8191
SIZE_Y=6143

I'll post this and check for any changes I made to the cfg.

Andy.

added in cfg bits : I think I only added in about the autopilot being available:

[Radios]
Com.1 = 1
Nav.1 = 1,0,1
Adf.1 = 1
Adf.2 = 1
Audio.1 = 1
Marker.1 = 1

[lights]
------

[keyboard_response]
elevator =200, 1000
aileron =200, 1000
rudder =200, 1000

[direction_indicators]
direction_indicator.0=1,0
direction_indicator.1=2,0

[attitude_indicators]
attitude_indicator.0 = 1
attitude_indicator.1 = 2

[turn_indicators]
turn_indicator.0=2,0

[autopilot]
autopilot_available= 1
flight_director_available = 1
pitch_takeoff_ga=0
default_vertical_speed=500.0000 << lowered the default climb rate>>>>>
autothrottle_available=0
direction_indicator=1
max_pitch=10.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=25
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=9.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.250000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain = 0.0
default_bank_mode=2

Andy.