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The Staff of SOH
Honda/Toro Rosso?
- Thread starter Panther_99FS
- Start date
wombat666
Administrator
More silly season (to use 'Presidential' terms) Fake News.
Renault can't supply their in house team with a decent engine, let alone RBR and STR, why would they take on McLaren?
And Kubica is not returning to F1.
Alonso must stay at McLaren, realistically there is no other choice.
The Mercedes seats are closed out, as are Ferrari, RBR will retain the current pair, and the rest of the grid will shuffle a few seats around.
The bloody 'Media Muppets' should just stop trying to justifying their assistance.
Renault can't supply their in house team with a decent engine, let alone RBR and STR, why would they take on McLaren?
And Kubica is not returning to F1.
Alonso must stay at McLaren, realistically there is no other choice.
The Mercedes seats are closed out, as are Ferrari, RBR will retain the current pair, and the rest of the grid will shuffle a few seats around.
The bloody 'Media Muppets' should just stop trying to justifying their assistance.
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
Actually there is another choice : retiring.
Alonso said multiple times he would retire from the sport if he cannot get a good car. And he showed great interest in Indycar and WEC in the past.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
wombat666
Administrator
Alonso is hardly retiring with unfinished business left.
Indycar? Maybe another '500' but not a permanent drive, not really his type of arena.
WEC? Now what would he drive, as there is only one LMP1 team around? I can't see Fernando in a crappy LMP2 car.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Not stupid if you're Toro Rosso.
Why not take a chance at being works team since you definitely won't go anywhere with customer engines. It also gives Red Bull a chance to "test" Honda should the Renault not be where they want it to be next year.
(Which is why Haas switched to Ford in NASCAR. I fully expect a HAAS/Ford F1 car within 5yrs)
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Panther please read up on the facts before you make statements that are false.
See here.
Honda returned to Formula One as an engine supplier in 2015, reviving their relationship with 1980s partner McLaren.[SUP][6][/SUP] However, the engine has so far proved to be significantly underpowered and inefficient. Double world champion Fernando Alonso described the Honda engine as "embarrassing" and compared it to a "GP2 engine".[SUP][19][/SUP] In addition it has been so unreliable that the team were hit with a record 105-grid position penalty at the Belgian Grand Prix.[SUP][20][/SUP] In Belgium engine chief Yasuhisa Arai, claimed that the engine was 25 horsepower (19 kW) more powerful than the Renault plant, and on a par with the Ferrari. However, just one race later at Monza, Arai admitted that the Honda engine was in fact 180 horsepower (130 kW) down on the Renault. However, Arai refused to apologise for the poor performance of the engine.[SUP][21][/SUP] Arai was replaced as head of Honda's Formula One programme by Yusuke Hasegawa on 1 March 2016. During the 2016 season Hasegawa admitted that the poor performance of the Honda engine meant that "only luck will put them on this year's podium" and "in our current situation, there are not many teams who want our engine".[SUP][22][/SUP] In 2016 Hasegawa was asked when the Honda engine would be competitive with the second tier engines of Ferrari and Renault, to which Hasegawa admitted "maybe next year", two years later than when Arai claimed the Honda engine was more powerful.[SUP][23]
This year has been equally bad and Mclaren are risking a lawsuit from honda by breaking with the Company
[/SUP]
See here.
Honda returned to Formula One as an engine supplier in 2015, reviving their relationship with 1980s partner McLaren.[SUP][6][/SUP] However, the engine has so far proved to be significantly underpowered and inefficient. Double world champion Fernando Alonso described the Honda engine as "embarrassing" and compared it to a "GP2 engine".[SUP][19][/SUP] In addition it has been so unreliable that the team were hit with a record 105-grid position penalty at the Belgian Grand Prix.[SUP][20][/SUP] In Belgium engine chief Yasuhisa Arai, claimed that the engine was 25 horsepower (19 kW) more powerful than the Renault plant, and on a par with the Ferrari. However, just one race later at Monza, Arai admitted that the Honda engine was in fact 180 horsepower (130 kW) down on the Renault. However, Arai refused to apologise for the poor performance of the engine.[SUP][21][/SUP] Arai was replaced as head of Honda's Formula One programme by Yusuke Hasegawa on 1 March 2016. During the 2016 season Hasegawa admitted that the poor performance of the Honda engine meant that "only luck will put them on this year's podium" and "in our current situation, there are not many teams who want our engine".[SUP][22][/SUP] In 2016 Hasegawa was asked when the Honda engine would be competitive with the second tier engines of Ferrari and Renault, to which Hasegawa admitted "maybe next year", two years later than when Arai claimed the Honda engine was more powerful.[SUP][23]
This year has been equally bad and Mclaren are risking a lawsuit from honda by breaking with the Company
[/SUP]
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
A McLaren-Renault/ STR-Honda deal is excepted to be announced this week, maybe even tomorrow..
Kubica apparently has had offers from multiple F1 teams, Massa has announced he has great interest in FE, and if the Renault deal doesn't happen, Alonso could very well go to Williams..
Kubica apparently has had offers from multiple F1 teams, Massa has announced he has great interest in FE, and if the Renault deal doesn't happen, Alonso could very well go to Williams..
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Thanks for the update Ferry!
I do expect to see Kubica in a ride in 2018....
I do expect to see Kubica in a ride in 2018....
Hey All,
Have to comment.
How can a series be truly competitive when some competitors have only 75 to 80 percent of the horsepower of the second rate engine in the series? Why show up an be embarrassed for years?
I believe in early 2016 Mercedes asked if 20 more HP could be given to their opponents to make racing a bit more competitive. Of course to Mercedes 20 more is meaningless and they knew it. Talk about bragging.
Now I've not kept track this year but I bet monza which is a HP track was dominated by Mercedes with their HP.
More importantly why does a governing body allow this for years?
-Ed-
Have to comment.
How can a series be truly competitive when some competitors have only 75 to 80 percent of the horsepower of the second rate engine in the series? Why show up an be embarrassed for years?
I believe in early 2016 Mercedes asked if 20 more HP could be given to their opponents to make racing a bit more competitive. Of course to Mercedes 20 more is meaningless and they knew it. Talk about bragging.
Now I've not kept track this year but I bet monza which is a HP track was dominated by Mercedes with their HP.
More importantly why does a governing body allow this for years?
-Ed-
wombat666
Administrator
Renault are not committing to Kubica, in fact they appear to be backing away somewhat.
As for 'offers' from other teams, do they realise that if they do sign Robert they will need four cars per race?
The usual pair of race cars and a pair of spare cars will require two highly modified cars to suit a driver with (more or less) one arm.
That aside, what purpose would it serve for him to run around at the back of the field in an noncompetitive car?
As always, I await all 'official' announcements and believe them when they appear on track next season.
FWIW, I do admire Kubica, he was a bloody good driver and remains a good bloke, I just hate the thought of him being used as a PR opportunity.
As for 'offers' from other teams, do they realise that if they do sign Robert they will need four cars per race?
The usual pair of race cars and a pair of spare cars will require two highly modified cars to suit a driver with (more or less) one arm.
That aside, what purpose would it serve for him to run around at the back of the field in an noncompetitive car?
As always, I await all 'official' announcements and believe them when they appear on track next season.
FWIW, I do admire Kubica, he was a bloody good driver and remains a good bloke, I just hate the thought of him being used as a PR opportunity.
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
More silly season (to use 'Presidential' terms) Fake News.
Renault can't supply their in house team with a decent engine, let alone RBR and STR, why would they take on McLaren?
The bloody 'Media Muppets' should just stop trying to justifying their assistance.
Just what you said...
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Just what you said...
........
wombat666
Administrator
Honda aims to be among the top three teams when it joins forces with Toro Rosso next year, according to one of its top executives.
The engine manufacturer’s chief officer for brand and communication operations Katsuhide Moriyama stated the goal during today’s FIA press conference.
Moriyama said Honda’s board had decided against leaving F1 despite the collapse of its relationship with McLaren, who it returned to F1 with three years ago.
“For Honda, Formula One has started with the dream of our founder Mr Soichiro Honda,” said Moriyama . “We already have a 50-year history in Formula One and for our company obviously Formula One is a very important culture as well as the DNA of our company.”
“It is true that we have gone through a very tough situation now and nobody was satisfied with the current board, especially the board. It is true that we have gone through many discussions due to the dissatisfaction of the present and we discussed the project with the company and how to improve the situation.”
Moriyama said “quitting F1 was never an option” for Honda. “It is our goal to overcome this tough challenge and get back to fighting with the front-runners of the sport.”
“Our spirit, Honda’s spirit, is going to come back and for next year our goal is to fight for the top three at the front of the grid.”
McLaren finished ninth in the championship in its first year with the manufacturer. It rose to sixth last year but is ninth in the championship at present.
I would have expected Honda would have learned to shut up with the rash statements by now.
AndRoxane-21, read that post again.
Even a 7 year old should understand it.
The engine manufacturer’s chief officer for brand and communication operations Katsuhide Moriyama stated the goal during today’s FIA press conference.
Moriyama said Honda’s board had decided against leaving F1 despite the collapse of its relationship with McLaren, who it returned to F1 with three years ago.
“For Honda, Formula One has started with the dream of our founder Mr Soichiro Honda,” said Moriyama . “We already have a 50-year history in Formula One and for our company obviously Formula One is a very important culture as well as the DNA of our company.”
“It is true that we have gone through a very tough situation now and nobody was satisfied with the current board, especially the board. It is true that we have gone through many discussions due to the dissatisfaction of the present and we discussed the project with the company and how to improve the situation.”
Moriyama said “quitting F1 was never an option” for Honda. “It is our goal to overcome this tough challenge and get back to fighting with the front-runners of the sport.”
“Our spirit, Honda’s spirit, is going to come back and for next year our goal is to fight for the top three at the front of the grid.”
McLaren finished ninth in the championship in its first year with the manufacturer. It rose to sixth last year but is ninth in the championship at present.
I would have expected Honda would have learned to shut up with the rash statements by now.
AndRoxane-21, read that post again.
Even a 7 year old should understand it.