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How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

Navy Chief

Navy Chief

Senior Member
I have had the Milviz ADV F-4J since it was released, and have never figured out a easy way to trim this aircraft to be able to successfully fly it.

Within seconds of taking off, the aircraft becomes a airborne bucking bronco. Is there a way to autotrim this beast? It is so damn hard to control. NC
 
In the MVAMS application (that external app to configure your aircraft from Milviz), check the Phantom configuration, especially the dead zones. I set them to zero, else I get a very strange behavior in flight.
Excepted that, I can't remember right now, but isn't there some dampening system to activate in the cockpit ? For roll and pitch ?
I love the Milviz Phantoms so much and I don't have any issues to fly them (excepted an engine burning from time to time when I'm in the parking, waiting for that damned INS to warm up...)
 
You trimmed 2 units nose down trim before takeoff?

All 3 SAS switches on?

Trim commands assigned in the MVAMS?

@Daube the pitch/roll damp and deadzones are only for the Control Stick Steering mode when the autopilot attitude hold is on.
 
Naruto-kun said:
You trimmed 2 units nose down trim before takeoff?

All 3 SAS switches on?

Trim commands assigned in the MVAMS?

@Daube the pitch/roll damp and deadzones are only for the Control Stick Steering mode when the autopilot attitude hold is on.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your reply (and Daube's as well!). I will confirm all the above and report back! NC
 
Well, I tried applying the 2 units of Nose trim down adjustment. It is still very difficult to control. Not fun to fly, unless I can get this figured out. I understand this ADV model was designed to add more realism, but this is not cool! Beautiful model though. NC
 
It is indeed not easy but quite satisfying once you manage it.

The prerequisites are to have these two units of trim down and all 3 SAS switches to on. Then when you reach rotation speed pull nose up but be ready to trim down aggressively once speed builds up. In general speed up means trim down and to keep either a constant climb or level flight, trim switch should be within easy reach. Pushing gently down on the stick may also help but one needs to be careful not to overdo it and start a pilot induced pitch oscillation.

Hope this will help but in any case lots of practice is needed.
 
I've had hundreds of hours of stick time on the standard MilViz phantoms without a problem, including carrier ops, but I can not fly the ADV models on my rig. The issues occur when flaps move. I can get in the air okay (it's a real fight when flaps retract, but I manage). I have never successfully landed however. On initial approach, when flaps extend, about 90% of the time, I go in to an unrecoverable dive. No amoung of trim or stick can save me usually. On the rare occasion thst I somehow manage to avoid a dirt nap during that phase, actually landing in an sort of a controlled manner has never been achieved.

I've assumed it was my issue (some config. or setting), so after many attempts, I've uninstalled the Phantoms. I'm actually happy to hear this isn't my issue alone as what NC has described is my experience as well, and I don't believe that it's piloting skills.
 
Dimus said:
It is indeed not easy but quite satisfying once you manage it.

The prerequisites are to have these two units of trim down and all 3 SAS switches to on. Then when you reach rotation speed pull nose up but be ready to trim down aggressively once speed builds up. In general speed up means trim down and to keep either a constant climb or level flight, trim switch should be within easy reach. Pushing gently down on the stick may also help but one needs to be careful not to overdo it and start a pilot induced pitch oscillation.

Hope this will help but in any case lots of practice is needed.
Click to expand...

Just what I do. I don't actually measure the amount of down trim needed. I just keep going.....

odourboy said:
I've had hundreds of hours of stick time on the standard MilViz phantoms without a problem, including carrier ops, but I can not fly the ADV models on my rig. The issues occur when flaps move. I can get in the air okay (it's a real fight when flaps retract, but I manage). I have never successfully landed however. On initial approach, when flaps extend, about 90% of the time, I go in to an unrecoverable dive. No amoung of trim or stick can save me usually. On the rare occasion thst I somehow manage to avoid a dirt nap during that phase, actually landing in an sort of a controlled manner has never been achieved.
Click to expand...

Strange, I don't get this issue at all. I'm with you on it being more of a 'controlled-crash', though.

Dave
 
Naruto-kun said:
What sort of speeds are you guys extending the flaps at?
Click to expand...

It's been a while so I'm not 100% on this figure, but around 210-220 IIRC. Also, I think the flaps will extend on their own at about 230ish if the weren't manually retracted, right? I've tried that as well with the same unfortunate outcome.
 
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I had a similar issue with the T-38C and F-4E ADV. No other Milviz model has had this issue. Not sure what to make of it. I thought it might be interference between the physics modeling of EZDOK 3 and the model's realism settings but cutting the former off, the issue still persists.
 
StormILM said:
I had a similar issue with the T-38C and F-4E ADV. No other Milviz model has had this issue. Not sure what to make of it. I thought it might be interference between the physics modeling of EZDOK 3 and the model's realism settings but cutting the former off, the issue still persists.
Click to expand...

I have a suggestion for your T-38C problem. I had trouble until I realized it was ignoring my trim input. The trim controls on my stick are mapped to the P3D trim axis, and have always worked fine for the rest of my fleet, but not the T-38C. However, when I explicitly mapped the trim controls through the T-38C configuration in MVAMS, I was flying.
 
StormILM said:
I had a similar issue with the T-38C and F-4E ADV. No other Milviz model has had this issue. Not sure what to make of it. I thought it might be interference between the physics modeling of EZDOK 3 and the model's realism settings but cutting the former off, the issue still persists.
Click to expand...

Ezdock 2 is known to clash with our external flight models. I don't know about 3, but I am wary of their product. Chaseplane I think is better.
 
I do have ChasePlane, but it is currently not installed. I guess I am just getting old (and lazy), and didn't want to have to constantly fiddle with trim adjustments! NC:biggrin-new:
 
odourboy said:
I have a suggestion for your T-38C problem. I had trouble until I realized it was ignoring my trim input. The trim controls on my stick are mapped to the P3D trim axis, and have always worked fine for the rest of my fleet, but not the T-38C. However, when I explicitly mapped the trim controls through the T-38C configuration in MVAMS, I was flying.
Click to expand...

I will give that a try and see if it helps.
 
Naruto-kun said:
Ezdock 2 is known to clash with our external flight models. I don't know about 3, but I am wary of their product. Chaseplane I think is better.
Click to expand...

I never had crashing issues with Ezdok 2 or 3 with any of the Milviz models while we were Alpha or Beta testing. They have been stable on every model thus far. Ezdok 1 was a pain for me.
 
One other question: are your realism sliders fully to the right? We had hypersensitivity problems in the T-38C and F-15C during testing that I couldn’t figure out until I found the testers had their realism sliders at the default positions.
 
Mine are full right, ignore crash detection, also cut off the T-38C's realism on it's menu. Nothing helps. I start the takeoff, all is normal until I rotate, it never gets airborne, the tires blow and then either the gear folds and the engines FOD out or it bounces into the air, gear still damaged, usually one engine out. I had a similar problem with the F-4E ADV in FSX. I rolled back to the base F-4, all was fine.
 
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