Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Saetta HA200 by Erwin Welker,
& Miles Libellua by Kazunori Ito.
Ttfn
Pete
& Miles Libellua by Kazunori Ito.
Ttfn
Pete
HU! New planes at flightsim.com
- Thread starter Motormouse
- Start date
Nice to see these airplanes from Kazunori Ito. If we are to believe the info supplied, they were prototypes that never saw full-scale production. If we are not supposed to believe the info, then they are fictitious aircraft from the master designers own mind. I am flying both them after upgrading the textures for my use along with enhanced panel lines and rivets. The stumbling block for me is the FDE. These last two (this one and the Akita) have an FDE derived from one he has used on any number of airplanes in the past. I recognized it as the same one used on his great XP-67 about 8 years ago. If you can fix the FDE, this latest one will be fine. The biggest problem I found was braking, unless you have at least 3 or 4 miles of runway neither plane will stop completely as the brakes have zero affect.
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
Oh, those are both real, historical airplanes.
The Saeta mainly made its mark as a trainer, though there was a Super Saeta with attack capabilities that Herr Welker seems to have included in the package. I say "seems to" because the plane doesn't appeal to me much and I haven't downloaded a copy, so I haven't seen it in detail.
The Libellula was just as real, though it was an experimental type never intended for production. It was a proof of concept aircraft to establish the suitability of the configuration for a larger aircraft, which would have been a bomber for the RAF. It was meant to be jet powered, but the proposed jet engines weren't ready, so it was given piston power. Test pilots found that it flew well enough, but nothing ever came of the project. Whether Ito-san's model flies as well remains to be seen; we know about his aversion to flight modeling... I did grab a copy of this one, but I haven't done anything with it, just stashed it in my hangar for future examination.
The Saeta mainly made its mark as a trainer, though there was a Super Saeta with attack capabilities that Herr Welker seems to have included in the package. I say "seems to" because the plane doesn't appeal to me much and I haven't downloaded a copy, so I haven't seen it in detail.
The Libellula was just as real, though it was an experimental type never intended for production. It was a proof of concept aircraft to establish the suitability of the configuration for a larger aircraft, which would have been a bomber for the RAF. It was meant to be jet powered, but the proposed jet engines weren't ready, so it was given piston power. Test pilots found that it flew well enough, but nothing ever came of the project. Whether Ito-san's model flies as well remains to be seen; we know about his aversion to flight modeling... I did grab a copy of this one, but I haven't done anything with it, just stashed it in my hangar for future examination.
Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Mick is correct, both real enough planes:-
Miles M.39 ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.39B_Libellula
HA200 ----> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano_HA-200
ttfn
Pete
Miles M.39 ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.39B_Libellula
HA200 ----> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano_HA-200
ttfn
Pete
In hindsight I should have just deleted my post. Mine was directed at "both" of Ito Sans recent uploads which basically was "off topic". I searched for info on the "Akita" and found nothing, assuming the same was true for the oddly designed M-39B, I did not research it at all and of course that one would turn out to be an actual RW proto.
I downloaded the HA-200, but also, while watching the video supplied I noticed a glaring mistake in the design of the Sim version. The version for the sim shows a large mouth intake while the video shows an obvious rectangular intake and at least half the overall size of the one for the sim. No idea why that was done but it's a shame he didn't pay closer attention to the intake.
HorusJ
Charter Member
You are correct Falcon.It is a bit more rectangular.
I have seen one at a airshow in Colorado some years back and will never forget standing next to it when it fired up the engines.That LOUD high pitch whine(louder and higher than a T-37),I thought I was going to lose my hearing! But it did put on a very nice flying display.
I have seen one at a airshow in Colorado some years back and will never forget standing next to it when it fired up the engines.That LOUD high pitch whine(louder and higher than a T-37),I thought I was going to lose my hearing! But it did put on a very nice flying display.
Attachments
Ascua
SOH-CM-2025
Hi people
Well, being spanish I dropped the "Saeta" and took it for a spin rather fastish, unfortunately, there are problems all around, Falcon409 mentions the intake an he is absolutely spot on, but the real problem is the FDE, I got it flying (sort of) and either I have lost my touch or there is something very wrong with the rudder, the moment you roll the aircraft, the tail goes to the inside of the turn as if it was going out of fashion, but if you try to correct with the rudder, the aircraft rolls out of the turn sharpish but the tail stays low.
I put the aircraft through ACM and the geometry is all over the place with a wing with 35 degrees sweep and the main wheels two fuselage lenghts behind the tail.
I would have loved to have the HA-200/220 Saeta (there are quite a number of liveries for it), but I am affraid that, with all due respect to the author, it needs some major re-work, and that does not mention the textures' mapping which is not a sinecure either!
Pity
Well, being spanish I dropped the "Saeta" and took it for a spin rather fastish, unfortunately, there are problems all around, Falcon409 mentions the intake an he is absolutely spot on, but the real problem is the FDE, I got it flying (sort of) and either I have lost my touch or there is something very wrong with the rudder, the moment you roll the aircraft, the tail goes to the inside of the turn as if it was going out of fashion, but if you try to correct with the rudder, the aircraft rolls out of the turn sharpish but the tail stays low.
I put the aircraft through ACM and the geometry is all over the place with a wing with 35 degrees sweep and the main wheels two fuselage lenghts behind the tail.
I would have loved to have the HA-200/220 Saeta (there are quite a number of liveries for it), but I am affraid that, with all due respect to the author, it needs some major re-work, and that does not mention the textures' mapping which is not a sinecure either!
Pity
Good to know what you found. I was going to install it and go flying just to see how it performed. . .if it was decent then I could probably ignore the intake problem. I think I'll just delete it and be done with it.
Akita
Don't delete it yet. Try my FDES for it. I uploaded to MediFire file host 2/21/2017. Here are links. One is jet the other is turbo prop. How correct are they? Well they are good enough for both FS9 and FSX Accel AS IS. Just make addition to 'panel=xxx' and 'sound=xxx' as needed. I passed on Saeta but am downloading it now. Will take a look at how it flys tonight.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: Just now downloading the [SIZE=-1]Libellula. Will look at that one too. No problemo. I love to do FDEs for Ito's models (cause they ain't payware).[/SIZE]
Jet FDE
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4yjwvlalkbg2zwv/akida_fde.zip
Turbo Prop FDE
http://www.mediafire.com/file/e4954il719j3gln/akita_tp_fdes.zip
Don't delete it yet. Try my FDES for it. I uploaded to MediFire file host 2/21/2017. Here are links. One is jet the other is turbo prop. How correct are they? Well they are good enough for both FS9 and FSX Accel AS IS. Just make addition to 'panel=xxx' and 'sound=xxx' as needed. I passed on Saeta but am downloading it now. Will take a look at how it flys tonight.
Chuck B
Napamule
PS: Just now downloading the [SIZE=-1]Libellula. Will look at that one too. No problemo. I love to do FDEs for Ito's models (cause they ain't payware).[/SIZE]
Jet FDE
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4yjwvlalkbg2zwv/akida_fde.zip
Turbo Prop FDE
http://www.mediafire.com/file/e4954il719j3gln/akita_tp_fdes.zip
Oh no. . .The Akita is fine, as is the M.39B. . .it's the HA-200 Saeta that I deleted. The intake is poorly modeled and it sounds like the geometry and FDE are so out of wack it isn't worth messing with.
Saeta
Oh, ok. Just now downloaded that too. Being too busy with vehicles lately to get Ito models because I KNOW I have to work on them to fly them (ha). The vehicles are by Daley (for LeMans4FSX) and yesterday the Welker's P911 (just got done with today). Just never enough time. I will fix the Saeta. Will PM you when FDE is ready. By Friday most likely.
Chuck B
Napamule
Oh, ok. Just now downloaded that too. Being too busy with vehicles lately to get Ito models because I KNOW I have to work on them to fly them (ha). The vehicles are by Daley (for LeMans4FSX) and yesterday the Welker's P911 (just got done with today). Just never enough time. I will fix the Saeta. Will PM you when FDE is ready. By Friday most likely.
Chuck B
Napamule
Saeta FDEs
Hello? Anybody there? (Who is up at this time of the night..just nuts like me (hehe)). Here is the link to the Saeta HA-200. They were all messed up. Did not match the model at all! Nothing matched! What a crock. A 10 year old could of figured it out (but that's just me ranting to relieve pressure on my brain!) - Cheesh! It need full pitch trim on approach (+15.0) and did not fix that. Minor point? It handles like it should (99% good). It even has reverse thrust (and moves) but not sure if that is 'spec' to the real one. It took me 3 hours to fix: 1 hr to fix the cfg values, 1 hour to nap, then 1 hour having fun flying it! I left my edits in FYI. Enjoy.
Chuck B
Napamule
Link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/dikk3zlslapdniu/saeta_ha200_fsx_fde.zip
Hello? Anybody there? (Who is up at this time of the night..just nuts like me (hehe)). Here is the link to the Saeta HA-200. They were all messed up. Did not match the model at all! Nothing matched! What a crock. A 10 year old could of figured it out (but that's just me ranting to relieve pressure on my brain!) - Cheesh! It need full pitch trim on approach (+15.0) and did not fix that. Minor point? It handles like it should (99% good). It even has reverse thrust (and moves) but not sure if that is 'spec' to the real one. It took me 3 hours to fix: 1 hr to fix the cfg values, 1 hour to nap, then 1 hour having fun flying it! I left my edits in FYI. Enjoy.
Chuck B
Napamule
Link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/dikk3zlslapdniu/saeta_ha200_fsx_fde.zip
Thanks Chuck. . .I am not familiar with Erwin Welkers full body of work, but I know he's always been connected more with ships and boats than aircraft. I am surprised that this aircraft was so poorly done though. I read his interview on flightsim.com and he seemed to have an extensive background in flightsimming but none that I could tell in actual modeling. He is more geared toward enhancing already released models so if this is his very first venture into actually going from start to finish with a model it may help explain some of the problems. Still, it wouldn't have passed a true beta test with all that is/was wrong with it.
UPDATE: The original aircraft was done by Ignacio Alfredo Mendive several years ago, this is just another airplane "enhanced by Erwin" but not built by him.
UPDATE: The original aircraft was done by Ignacio Alfredo Mendive several years ago, this is just another airplane "enhanced by Erwin" but not built by him.
Modeling -vs- Mechanics
Ed,
Did you look at all the changes I had to make in cfg? I left all the changes in and the original values are there, after the '//' to comment them out. It's understandable how Erwin might know modeling but not know FDEs. I do notice that he helps a lot of other people with their work. So he is not all bad (hehe). I can't paint and I sure can't model so I have to do mechanic work to earn my keep. It's all good. Have a nice one. Oh, feedback please (it's not perfect, yet). Thanks.
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: Forgot to mention that I only tried it in FSX Accel. I will fly it in FS9 tonight to see what has to be done to make it work there. Sorry.
Ed,
Did you look at all the changes I had to make in cfg? I left all the changes in and the original values are there, after the '//' to comment them out. It's understandable how Erwin might know modeling but not know FDEs. I do notice that he helps a lot of other people with their work. So he is not all bad (hehe). I can't paint and I sure can't model so I have to do mechanic work to earn my keep. It's all good. Have a nice one. Oh, feedback please (it's not perfect, yet). Thanks.
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: Forgot to mention that I only tried it in FSX Accel. I will fly it in FS9 tonight to see what has to be done to make it work there. Sorry.
Chuck, I would have to say that it is perfect (or close to it). It appears to be an excellent flyer really. I did a short flight with it and while it did reach "overspeed" limits pretty quickly, I have seen other aircraft do the same and I have a tendency to "firewall" the throttles anyway so much of that is attributed to my "leadfoot" mentality, lol. I originally trashed this one without even flying it, so I don't know how really bad it was in the air but currently it's a keeper.
I started work on a new set of textures for the exterior (interior to follow), but wow, even those are way off. Lining up the two halves (left side/right side) is proving to be a real pain but I'll get it. I'll find a good set of "walkaround" photos so I can get the panel lines/rivets/placards and labels in the right areas at least. WIP as they say, lol
Haven't posted any WIP shots because I've been involved with the C-119 Project and also because the texture for the fuselage portion of the HA-200 was so far off that nothing from the left side matched the rt side. Each side takes individual adjustments in some cases even within a particular portion of the red stripe graphics, in order to get things to line up. Terrible mapping.
Anyway, this is as far as I've gotten. Still exterior work to complete (panel lines, rivets, placards, stencils) and some work on the skins to make it appear more metallic. . .The material settings don't allow for a shine using an alpha, because like Kazunori's airplanes, an alpha makes the airplane go transparent. . .too bad.
