Isle of Wight Scenery

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aeromed202

SOH-CM-2014
Looking to spruce up the UK South coast I tried David Glaisters World of Wight freeware scenery. It was meant to go with specific mesh and tree files but should have worked OK as a stand alone. Trouble is it reliably crashes the game. I isolated two bgl files that cause the CTDT but they unfortunately also do the lions share of the scenery work. As I work to add in the recommended mesh and tree files has anyone had this trouble with this package? And on a related note, if a scenery bgl cannot locate a required texture file, does that always or commonly cause a CTDT? The tree files cited I cannot find, at least searching by name and matching the zip title. They are "Unless already installed, ag_tree_lib12.zip (260 Kb) Tree Library by Arno Gerretsen." as copied from the readme. I am waiting for an email reply from the author but the scenery is somewhat old and the contact may have evaporated.
 
I have the ag tree library and can send it to you if you pm me your email addy. It doesn't say 12 but I think it's the same. Several sceneries I have use it. Goes in the generic/scenery folder.
 
And on a related note, if a scenery bgl cannot locate a required texture file, does that always or commonly cause a CTDT?

If the object is there, but not the texture,you usually get blank white/grey or black boxes show up where the object is calling for the texture; if the object is missing as well then usually fltsim wil ignore it....However..
it could be that a particular object is an essential part of the .bgl equation and must be drawn according to the .bgl inner workings; if that is the case then a CTD happens 'cos bgl cannot complete its function.

Get the bgl-xml program and the scenery sdk; try decompiling a sample bgl to see how the equations and syntax work.

ttfn

Pete
 
Aeromed,

Same problem here! I have been trying to use this scenery for years, new downloads, tweaking etc...
I do get the scenery from a distance, the 'Needles', static sailing boats, the AI ferries to Portsmouth and mesh, but as soon as I fly closer I get a CTDT.
Would be great if you could get this sorted as the IOW is just down the road from my base in Shoreham.
Looking forward to any progress...

Regards,

Stuart
 
Same here, it would show just long enough to reveal some very nice work then adios. Did get a nice email from David generally saying he'd been out of the flightsim for a few years but didn't have any fixes he knew of. I've isolated the bgls that cause the crashes to two, IOW_Solent_LWM3.bgl and IOW_Solent_LWM2.bgl. As I told David, unfortunately these seem to bring together most of the scenery elements so without them things are pretty much stock looking. I might get around to trying what Pete suggested because it looks to be a worthy effort to fix up.
 
I used to get that, but then changed my UK mesh and the problem went away.

Kind regards

John
 
Same here, it would show just long enough to reveal some very nice work then adios. Did get a nice email from David generally saying he'd been out of the flightsim for a few years but didn't have any fixes he knew of. I've isolated the bgls that cause the crashes to two, IOW_Solent_LWM3.bgl and IOW_Solent_LWM2.bgl. As I told David, unfortunately these seem to bring together most of the scenery elements so without them things are pretty much stock looking. I might get around to trying what Pete suggested because it looks to be a worthy effort to fix up.

Ah.. they could be land/water class files.. try putting those into their own folder and sub-folder
ie : World of Wight Landclass/scenery (note NO 'TEXTURE' folder)

In your scenery library make sure the mesh is lowest priority, next highest the landclass; finally highest priority the actual scenery.

a landclass file should always be on its/their own in a 'scenery' folder without an asscociated 'texture' folder
or it will always ctd.

Hope this helps

ttfn

Pete

Ps Hello John!
 
I don't want to start an argument but just to clarify. Re mesh, it doesn't matter where you put it in the scenery order, top, bottom or somewhere in between. And for landclass not having a texture folder, I suppose it depends on the particular landclass. Lots of scenery simply includes the lc file(s) in with the main scenery folder that of course has a texture folder.
 
Don't worry about arguments, they often can clarify. But I don't see arguing here, just sharing of info. I think the points mentioned here can always use review, certainly I could always use a knock to the head now and again. So here's what I've picked up and correct me if it's wrong or if it just doesn't matter. Authors that provide LC and mesh with their sceneries always direct that those three parts be prioritized in a particular sequence. For scenery A, with parts Scenery-A, LC-A, and mesh-A, the order as viewed through the scenery list once the game is started should be:

1. Scenery-A
2. LC-A
3. mesh-A
4. ...
5. ...

meaning scenery has higher priority than LC which has higher priority than mesh. Also meaning the mesh affects everything above it on the list, which is why global mesh providers say to place theirs just above the default, which is way down near the bottom, so it is there for all subsequent higher up sceneries that come later. There may be other ways to arrange things that work equally well but I just stick to this.

So far on the IOW scenery, I found the ukmesh04 and applied that. The coastline now works better with the scenery but for most places where the terrain meets the water the surfaces are furrowed. Lumping all the scenery files back to author specs brought back the CTDT, but it looked nice until then. Placing the two files I mentioned before in a separate LC folder and prioritizing as above just left the scenery looking like the default, so for those to work they need to be in the same folder as the rest of the bgls, or maybe just certain ones. This is quite the puzzler not being a scenery designer.


One more update...

Again, I basically re-installed the scenery as instructed, moving the Afcads to addon/scenery, traffic files to scenery/world/scenery, and used ukmesh04 by Pietro Mauri, all which this time caused no crash but the terrain at the shoreline was deeply furrowed although the wave line itself seemed correct. On a hunch I removed 13 bgl files from the IOW/scenery folder named "CCIOW_Multi_RM_remesh_383x111" (the last numbers varied). Doing that removed the furrows and some places pushed the cliff line inland a bit but I don't know the real landscape there to say if that is accurate. The result looks good so far. The water inlets on the North shore match up with the authors ferries and boat sceneries, there are no shore waves lapping way far inland, the terrain furrowing is gone, and so far no CTDT. So if you want, try that arrangement and see what you get.
 
Mesh, landscape and scenery all do different things.

For mesh it literally doesn't matter where it's placed in the scenery order. The only exception is if you have two meshes with the same LOD. For example I have from FSGenesis all the mesh with LOD 4 through LOD 11 in a folder. I can put that anywhere. BUT if a particular scenery comes with it's own mesh then it must go below my FSGenesis mesh. This is opposite of all other kinds of scenery, an anomaly in FS9. However, it doesn't matter where all that goes.

Same principle with landclass. It does something different than mesh or scenery so it doesn't matter. Many scenery designers simply include the lc file (or even mesh) with their scenery.

However, with some scenery it could make a difference. You might have a larger lc area that must go below the more localized lc area. So the scenery designer includes this in the instructions. Roger Wensley does this a lot. He might have two or three lc folders necessary and they must be in the proper order. Holger Sandmann's Columbia River Gorge is different. He says in that scenery the lc folder must go above the scenery folder. Best to simply follow directions.

With afcads it doesn't matter where they go. It's a good idea to place them all in the same folder (like the scenery) to prevent duplicates. Same with traffic. They'll work just fine in the regular scenery folder. But with my ocd I like to place them all in the scenery\world\scenery folder.
 
some places pushed the cliff line inland a bit but I don't know the real landscape there to say if that is accurate. The result looks good so far. The water inlets on the North shore match up with the authors ferries and boat sceneries.

Let me take you on a little tour then; this uses a mix of David Glaisters' scenery; the 'Solent Shipping' scenery
and Nicky Ryall's lighthouses and various other objects, and I'm also using the VFR photoscenery; taking off from Sandown (EGHN) rwy 05;
we climb out over the ridge of high ground that bisects the Island laterally; and is known colloquially as 'the Downs'

Immediately below us is Culver Down; with the monument to the Earl of Yarborough standing on the highest point; while below we can see the caravans (trailer park for you transatlantics') of the Whitecliff Bay Holiday park; out at sea a cruise ship is taking a risk by cutting inside the Nab Tower and crossing the Nab shoal, so it must be high tide!


View attachment 58284

Yes; well inside the Nab!


View attachment 58285


The Nab Tower itself is an historical artefact; originally constructed during WWI as part of a scheme
to fortify the Straights of Dover against U-Boats; the war finished before the project could be completed; only 1 of the proposed chain of forts was completed and in 1920 was towed from Shoreham Harbour and placed on the end of the Nab shoal replacing a lightship at that location.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nab_Tower; we turn overhead Nab and head west along the Solent.


View attachment 58286


Away over our right wing is Thorney Island; and nearby Emsworth (home of one JohnR of these forums..)

View attachment 58287

Looking back towards IOW now; we pass Bembridge; the lifeboat station slipway is prominent, and Bembridge Harbour entrance guarded by St Helen's Fort. This fort one of 'Palmerston's Follies' goes dry during spring low tides and it is possible to walk to it from the Island shore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmerston_Forts,_Isle_of_Wight

View attachment 58288

View attachment 58289


...to be continued....
 
Next major landmark is Ryde; the pier is easily noticed, and it is the departure point for one of the high speed ferries; the Hovercraft slip is next to the pier and nearby the recent addition 'Ryde Harbour'

View attachment 58290

Then comes Fishbourne;another one of the Island's Ferry ports, on Wootton Creek.

View attachment 58293

Kings' Quay is the next small inlet before we get to the easily recognisable mouth of the river Medina at Cowes; the Columbine Works of the former
Saunders-Roe (and later Westland/British Hovercraft) is prominent here; nowadays known as 'Venture Quays', the slipway has been demolished , it was deemed unsafe, and a large boat lift installed instead. Cowes is also the premier port of the Island.

View attachment 58294

Continuing to head west along the Solent; we avoid overflying the danger area at Newtown Creek ranges, so no photo of there,
and next get a good look at Yarmouth

View attachment 58295

on the way to our next turning point; which needs no introduction... The Needles Rocks

View attachment 58296

As we turn over the Needles; we reflect on 'what might have been'; Who would believe the High Down, here below,
was once the site of pioneer rocketry and the British Space Programme?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Knight_(rocket)

View attachment 58297

and likewise at Afton Downs , who would know Hendrix would be playing one of his final public concerts in 1970
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight_Festival_1970; here on adjoining Tennyson Down we see the monument to Alfred,Lord Tennyson; who lived nearby and allegedly wrote 'Crossing the Bar' while on a ferry to the Island.

View attachment 58298

..to be continued...
 
The large south-easterly sweep of Compton and Atherfield Bays' terminates in the southernmost point of the Island at St Catherine's Point

View attachment 58299

We turn the corner, heading back easterly, prominent is the area known as the 'Undercliff'; originating from a pre-historic
landslip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Undercliff; the resulting escarpment runs from St Catherine's to St Boniface Down
high above Ventnor.

View attachment 58303

Making ready to land back at Sandown; here is a closer view of the summit of St Boniface Down; 700ft AMSL it is the highest point on the Island.
Once the site of of the WWII 'RAF Ventnor' 'chain home' station; post-war sector 'R1' station and latterly a civil radar station; most of the site is now disused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_Home; http://www.ventnorradar.co.uk/

View attachment 58304

No time to photograph the 'twin' seaside towns of Sandown and Shanklin as we land back at Sandown

View attachment 58305

P'raps I should explain, I grew up on IOW, at Cowes. My old folks live there still.

ttfn

Pete
 
Wonderful travelogue, thanks. Had to follow along in a C340 to be sure to hit the highlights. If I start at IOW things work fine but if I check map view I get the stall and the 'Encountered a Problem and has to close', or if I switch to the next view in the cycle I get CTDT. So there is still mischief afoot over this grand island. Next is starting there then flying well out of range to see if the crash issues stop.

After flying an F18 half way north over the UK from IoW, switching views did the dastardly deed again. Looks like I'll be deactivating his scenery unless I just want to fly it and nothing more.:frown:
 
This is my understanding on various types of scenery:
Scenery comes basically in 4 types: Mesh, Lanclass, "Scenery" (consists of object placement data and some custom objects), and Library Objects.
These catagorizations mean different things in FS9 and FSX. For example, in FS9, mesh is nothing more than a very large model, unextured. Textures, whether they be photoscenery or landclass, must be defined in another bgl. In FSX, mesh can include the textures baked into the bgl itself, but not always. In newer sceneries, there is a tendancy to include custom objects in a library, no matter how unique they are. Older sceneries may have simply placed each object as a fixed-location bgl. Ground Polys, LWM and VTP files, flattens, excludes, and Afcads are placed in the Scenery catagory almost without exception.

On the subject of priorities:
Mesh: Mesh can be placed absolutly anywhere. FS automatically uses the highest LOD mesh availible (regardless of your mesh detail settings, which governs percentage of points displayed from that file. So a high LOD mesh on a low detail setting may still display at a higher resolution than a lower LOD mesh at high detail). When using multiple meshes of the same LOD, place the mesh you want to see at the top of your list, just as you do with all other scenery types.
Landclass: all landclass is produced at the same resolution in FS9. This is not true in FSX, but broadly so in FS9. Note that resolution is not the same as fidelity... a simple landclass produced for a large area will be much more vauge than something produced carefully for a small area just because the data used was less specific! Therefore, place the landclass you want to use above the others on your list.
Landclasses may use custom textures. They may therefore include a folder for textures. When the landclass uses Only custom textures, it may be incorporated in the folder with other scenery, but when the landclass is forced to search BOTH the local and the global FS9 texture folder, there is a memory leak and framerates plummet and CTDs result. So it is wise to include most landclasses in their own folder without an accompanying texture folder.
As long as you keep your desired landclass above the other landclasses, it doesn't matter where you put the landclass in relation to your other scenery types. In isolation,
(LC) above
(Scenery)
Is identical in outcome to
(Scenery) above
(LC).
However sometimes scenery designers may mix custom and generic landclasses. Because of that, you should always follow the scenery designers wishes as regards landclass.

Scenery: this includes specific local objects and details. Always place the most important scenery above others in the area, because the scenery on top will override the others. But, it can be placed arbitrarily relative to other types of scenery. Follow the scenery designers instructions re compatibility with other sceneries because of those reasons. This can be quite sensitive to placement.
Object Libraries: these can be placed where ever you wish. It doesn't matter which scenery you have where or which scenery includes which library... no matter where your library is located, FS will find it when an object is referenced. For this reason, libraries can be said to be placeable anywhere. Object placers and library designers often tell you to place the libraries very low down on the scenery library list, but that is just so you don't accidentally delete that area! It truthfully doesn't matter. However, memory leaks can occur if you duplicate libraries - having multiple copies of the same library in different locations or by different file names. Then FS places multiple identical objects superimposed on itself - one from each duplicate of the library. Needless to say, this desroys FPS and causes CTDs. That is, for example, what is wrong with Captain Keiths wonderful Louisiana Wetlands scenery. CK makes heavy use of EZScenery libraries and includes them with the scenery. If you have EZScenery liraries elsewhere in FS, that duplication occurs on a major scale and his simple and beautiful sceneries cause the computer to struggle with it unduly and your framerates plummet. The solution is to delete the duplicate EZScenery libraries in the LA Wetlands scenery folder... and the FPS soars.
I hope that this helps someone.
 
If it is LWM files causing the crash, I'd recommend redownloading the scenery. Those files are probably corrupt. They may also include shoreline or river textures that are not being found in your sim, whether in your Isle of Wight texture folder or in the main sim folder.
LWM masks handle the primarily elevation and surface type classifications (that is, land vs water - actual assignment of textures for land and water in and LWM mask region is up to the landclass files.

Hmmm.... perhaps there is a rogue landclass-file lurking the the Isle of Wight scenery folder that should be isolated? Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue when the landclass is concealed (as when the LWM masks are removed and the sim reverts to the blocky underlying LOD 4 landclass), but with LWM masks are active cause a memory leak?

Only an idea, but you might try hunting for a landclass hidden in there.
 
So it looks like I can rule out some things. I keep all those nice generic textures (EZ, Loneys, Novas, etc) in one big honkin' addon texture folder to avoid duplicates. Someday I'll go and check for rogue dupes among the sceneries but I'm reasonably sure there are none. Also, when I addon sceneries I will develop an entire area, like The Solomons for example, so like-sceneries all go in at the same time and place reducing the chance for cross-area spillage. There are two files in this IoW group that seem to cause the trouble and I intend to get some software to check them out. Those are back on page 1. I'll re-download the whole thing too. This is all really good stuff, thanks everybody.
 
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