It's a conspiracy!

  • Thread starter James "Taffy" Jones
  • Start date
J

James "Taffy" Jones

Guest
Yesterday over at subsim, I posted a link stating that OFF BHAH had been released. The response, to say the least, has been underwhelming. What a bunch of crybabies and conspiracy theorists!

Here are some examples:

OFF: BHH is coming for yer money, run like mad.
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Is it worth $50? Is it worth all the hype surrounding it.

I'm still skeptical about how developed it is without them having access to CFS3 source code.

The impression I have always had looking at the forums is that and criticism no matter how slight is reacted to in a disproportionat (sic) way.
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My take on the "is it worth it?" question is, that if they pulled OFF2 out from free download, there's something fishy about it. I mean, if OFF3 is the new 10000x better OFF, then why take OFF2 out? If OFF3 really deliveres what it says, then there should be no problem, some play the worse, out of date OFF2 for free and those who want the "mother of all mods" OFF3, they can get it by buying it.
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Before I post my response, I was wondering if anyone has some advice about how to handle all the negativity over there. I know it is a submarine simulation site, and maybe there is not all that interest in a WWI flying sim, but WTF! One guy was talking about making his copy of OFF2 available for download "as retaliation." In addition to being an ignorant comment, you'd think the OFF team had broken into his house, stole his valuables, and buggered his mother for good measure!

I actually found out about OFF from lurking over at subsim, and there are quite a lot of nice and decent fellows over there. My guess is that some of the subsim board members have become spoiled by GWX, the freeware expansion mod to SH3, and won't pay for any "mod" that is not developed by professional game developers. Is there any convincing these chaps to give OFF a chance?

Here is a link to the entire thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131011
 
Let's not start another rantfest please. Seems to be a disgruntled minority anyway.
 
Looks to me like minds are made up over there, so prolly not worth the effort. Interesting reading though.
Cheers,
shredward
 
You should give them some links to some of the videos Polovski's made, I think those show that P3 is much more than just CFS3. :)
 
its not all negative and they brought up some valid points. some want it and some dont. much like here. i do think that the O.F.F. TEAM has done a much better job than they are given credit for over there.i think if they are into ww-1 flight simming they owe it to themselves to purchase and fly the sim.phase three is a final release of a product that was years in the makeing with phase one and two looked upon as beta testing.
i would not recomend saying anything over there as it is their forume and telling them what we know and know is comeing will not sway a mind already set.
hopefully,they will see that they just may have been wrong in their assumption and i am sure they will acess the situation when they see the feedback here.
PD
 
pilotsden said:
its not all negative and they brought up some valid points. some want it and some dont. much like here. i do think that the O.F.F. TEAM has done a much better job than they are given credit for over there.i think if they are into ww-1 flight simming they owe it to themselves to purchase and fly the sim.phase three is a final release of a product that was years in the makeing with phase one and two looked upon as beta testing.
i would not recomend saying anything over there as it is their forume and telling them what we know and know is comeing will not sway a mind already set.
hopefully,they will see that they just may have been wrong in their assumption and i am sure they will acess the situation when they see the feedback here.
PD
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100% agree!
I posted something about OFF in the forums of SES Jutland and got similar reactions. Most ppl criticized the very hefty pricetag, which imho is admittedly a big toad to swallow, for a former mod.
 
Hello,

sorry, but this is complete bullsh!t

The dev team sure did not invent this price out of the blue. After all they have been developing this sim for now 5 (?) years, offering at least 4 year's work even for free download until now. And i firmly believe they will continue to develop it, be it for improvements, added planes and such for Phase3, or for phase 4 - whatever. Only thing that would change their course of going strong would be statements as "50 bucks are a big toad to swallow".

Here in Germany PC games cost about 50 Euros, which is much more that 50 $. You might say that yiu have to gaet a CFS3 copy, BUT:
The dev team also stated they would probably go for another "engine", so they would not need MS's CFS3 any more.

But apart from buying an engine for further developing somwhere in the future of this sim, they have to pay their distributor - it is not at all sure whether the money asked for does indeed come up for their costs.

You may not realize it, but the flight sim community is not as big as you seem to think, let alone a niche product like a WWI simulator, even if it's the best currently existing. Ther are no masses to gain as with Doom, or Half Life and such.

I have been a member of subsim for 10+ years, and ask Neal whether he would write a review about OFF - only asking, sure.

Greetings,
Catfish
 
Ahh, these submariners, they've been at sea too long playing soggy sao anyway:faint:.
 
Catfish said:
Hello,

sorry, but this is complete bullsh!t
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What is there to argue about the fact that some ppl, including me, think that OFF is very expensive and regarding the "costs" for publishing it´s my guess that the publisher gets a share from sales because it would be pretty stupid to pay somebody to publish a game.

...and plz don´t try to circumvent the swear filtering of this forum!
 
You get what you pay for. If you want a good, realistic portrayal of World War I air combat (or simulate any other kind of action), you should expect to have to remunerate those who give their time, energy and creativity toward this enterprise.

P2 was Beta and the developers made a wise decision not to charge for it, as it was incomplete in so many ways. Good in its own way (especially since there were no other WWI air combat sims on anything approaching contemporary software), but Beta.

Indeed, for the critics, consider it an investment in a future of ever-improving simulation.

That's my opinion, anyway.

We'll see if P3 lives up to its billing, but I expect that it will. If they get the campaign infrastructure right, it will be a real beauty.
 
BadKarma1001 said:
What is there to argue about the fact that some ppl, including me, think that OFF is very expensive
Then, no doubt, you'll factor that into your decision.

and regarding the "costs" for publishing it´s my guess that the publisher gets a share from sales because it would be pretty stupid to pay somebody to publish a game.


Just what is this saying? Are you saying there are no costs, ? or is giving someone a share of income for a job done not paying them? or is the firm putting it on DVD and sending them out doing it for nothing?

...and plz don´t try to circumvent the swear filtering of this forum!

In the words of Manuel - Keh?
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Fortiesboy said:
Then, no doubt, you'll factor that into your decision.
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Yup i gritted my teeth, fainted and ordered it before i could recover full consciousness.
Got a shipment confirmation this morning!
That doesn´t change the fact that i think OFF is expensive and i´m afraid for some ppl too expensive.

Fortiesboy said:
Just what is this saying? Are you saying there are no costs, ? or is giving someone a share of income for a job done not paying them? or is the firm putting it on DVD and sending them out doing it for nothing?
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Well maybe i got CF wrong but in the way he wrote in his post
CF said:
they have to pay their distributor - it is not at all sure whether the money asked for does indeed come up for their costs.
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i assumed that he thinks they have to pay the distributor in advance, which would be a stupid thing to do.
No need to get so angry and offensive about this.
 
P2 beta

love that............I sure had fun with a beta release.....wouldn't miss the next chapter for anything! Great stuff from the sub forum....
 
There's your point. It's a sub forum. Interest in WWI aviation is probably not going to be anyone's focus there, so going beyond what you've done is probably beating a dead horse. On the other side of the coin, I might take a casual look at a sub sim, but I doubt I'd pay 50.00 for a mod for one. I wouldn't go on a rant about it like some did there, but I like to think I'm a bit more objective. We ARE WWI Aviation enthusiast, hence our ardor at obtaining and using OFF. It has at least a 50.00 value to most of us. Let's face it. jet jocks, WWII flyers, FP shooter players, etc are not going to be as enthusiastic as us about this and, therefore, unwilling to pay time or money to find out if they'll like it or not. They have their own genre that they enjoy and we have ours, which is all good. So, don't fret over it or try to turn them around, as someone once said, (yes I know who) just kick their dust from your feet and move on.
 
Maybe we should temporarily add in a sub to OFF P3... bomb the crap out of it... take some screenshots of it broken in half, burning and the crew floating dead in the sea...

Then send it to them. That should get the 'feeling' of P3 across to them.

LOL! I'm just kidding... ;)

Of course if there was a 'mother of all Submarine mods' out for $75, that would be OK for them.

Don't bother, once the reviews are out, they can see for themselves how much more improved everything is in P3. It's a whole new game from top to bottom. When I see some of the old P2 videos you guys take, I have to remind myself that is is P2, not P3.

Like I said in another post, there is a lot more to P3 than just flying... all of that was not part of P2. The focus is on the history and depth, plus atmosphere of the sim.

I'm patient, I can wait.

OvS
 
I wouldn't say anything, it'll just get you flamed. I'm a "whatever" type, if someone thinks it's too costly, fine. I don't think the Dev Team has any visions of getting rich from this, they did it out of love for the sim and the challenge. I suppose that could be speculation on my part, but could also be intuition. You can't change a closed mind. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, etc. I'm going to enjoy the sim. I'm sure once it's been out for a while there will be more folks coming on board.
 
Bubbleheads! They never change

I went over to subsim (or whatever it is) and read the whole thread pertaining to OFF. From what I read, I have come to the conclusion that the O2 generators and CO2 scrubbers on their subs must not be working because they seem to be suffering from oxygen deprivation, CO2 saturation, or the guys in the mess are serving too many beans and the air is getting thick. Methinks it's time for snorkeling!


CJ

Maybe the planes in OFF are too fast for them!;)
 
Baywing said:
I'm sure once it's been out for a while there will be more folks coming on board.
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I think that is spot on Baywing.

To some extent the quality of this sim,once evident, will sell itself

Posting on receptive fora will also undoubtedly spread the word as to the excellence of this fine sim.

I believe that recommendations to friends and colleagues will also assist greatly.It has been my experience that recommendation is still one of the one of the most effective ways of "hands off" marketing there is.

I hope that once people have experienced it, there will be a deluge of appreciation which will drive sales, and our community, forwards.

It is the very least the developers deserve.IMHO

best

nio

nio
 
My two main "sims" are WW1 plane sims (OFF2 soon to be OFF3) and Sub sims ( SH3 with GWX2 soon to be SH3 with GWX3 and SH4 soon to be updated to the "maru" MOD as soon as I get the disk from some kind soul) and I pay the person who sends the disk "cost + time & effort" , around $20.

$50+ shipping is no big deal compared to the cost of a good computer ever so often.

At my stage of life (retired military with 72 years behind me) I follow the wisdom of life remaning is to short to drink bad wine or scimp on fun and well done games be they "sims" or real life experiences on the golf course or the mountians of Colorado. It sure helps when I enjoy both with my best friends---- my son and grandson.

Thanks, CW3SF

CW3SF
 
$50 - Sounds good to me....Maybe my wife will question the $50 bill, but she will ask do you enjoy it - Yes - Between losing myself for hours on MAW,PTO,FSX and OFF2(and all the CFS's) when I get a chance, is all the reason. Sure I have a bunch of shoot'em up games also on my computer,but the choices of different aircraft/scenarios never ceases:amen: I get paid by the hour at work, so when my butts sits in front of my computer for hours of enjoyment - I am willing to pay for it:ernae:
 
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