aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
Nice France. A driver of a truck has killed scores at a Bastille Day gathering. Words fail me.
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36799172
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-36799172
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The Staff of SOH
It's happened again.
- Thread starter aeromed202
- Start date
wombat666
Administrator
Please keep this deplorable event out of the political arena.
At this point in time it regarded as a 'terrorist type of attack' only, and a reminder, all Muslims are not terrorists and all terrorists are not Muslim.
We have personal concerns as Madame Wombat has family scattered around France.
At this point in time it regarded as a 'terrorist type of attack' only, and a reminder, all Muslims are not terrorists and all terrorists are not Muslim.
We have personal concerns as Madame Wombat has family scattered around France.
gman5250
Charter Member
I will risk pointing out that these coordinated attacks are overt acts of war, conducted by a group with a specific, stated ideology. I will also point to the fact that previous wars were triggered by similar events.
There is something that can be done. The lawful remedy for the problem is provided within the framework of US and International Law.
I've attempted to frame this response in a "non-political" statement. If the administration feels my remarks are inappropriate, you may delete this post at your discretion.
There is something that can be done. The lawful remedy for the problem is provided within the framework of US and International Law.
I've attempted to frame this response in a "non-political" statement. If the administration feels my remarks are inappropriate, you may delete this post at your discretion.
Last report heard: Driver was a Tunisian-born French citizen, father of three, and going through a divorce. No group has claimed responsibility. My suspicion is that this will turn out to be a single person that just snapped. But either way, it's still a terrible, senseless tragedy.
gman5250
Charter Member
You may very well be right Tom, and the facts will find their way out in due time. The timing and circumstances surrounding this event lead me to suspect otherwise, and I'm trying to recall a historical precedent where a divorce led someone to act out in such a radical manner.
It happens quite a bit (relatively) on a smaller scale. Losing a job and a marriage at the same time can have a profound effect on the mind and more than one episode of workplace violence has been the result.
scotth6
Charter Member
I agree with your sentiments Gordon, about these being overt acts of war. When a country is attacked on it's own soil by any group I'm sure there is something that can be done and should be done by the country and it's willing allies.
I of course don't know the facts about what you are saying Tom, so I hesitate to disagree, but wasn't it reported that there were at least two perpetrators? If so I don't see how it could be the actions of one man who has snapped. Of course I understand this may have been misreported, and in this case you may well be right about the offender acting alone and spontaneously.
I saw on another forum where this tragedy was being discussed and a French citizen, in reply to another post stated: "Don't be sad, be angry"
This made me think about my comment here, and I am extremely sad and I am also extremely angry about whatever this attack is and so many other recent attacks. Something must be done.
I of course don't know the facts about what you are saying Tom, so I hesitate to disagree, but wasn't it reported that there were at least two perpetrators? If so I don't see how it could be the actions of one man who has snapped. Of course I understand this may have been misreported, and in this case you may well be right about the offender acting alone and spontaneously.
I saw on another forum where this tragedy was being discussed and a French citizen, in reply to another post stated: "Don't be sad, be angry"
This made me think about my comment here, and I am extremely sad and I am also extremely angry about whatever this attack is and so many other recent attacks. Something must be done.
gman5250
Charter Member
When I'm not building scenery or airplanes, I'm a forensic historian and researcher. I've been developing my skill sets and operating rules for 40+ years. Fundamental principal..."Evidence that demands a verdict", to borrow the term from Josh McDowell.
I usually begin with first reports, eye witness accounts of a story before any sheep dipping begins. I let the details develop over time, then arrive at my conclusions...based on vetted data, leaving room to modify my conclusions as data emerges.
The latest data appears to support my initial observations.
This headline is on AP, for any who is following the developing scenario. Google search will produce a number of mainstream sources.
Islamic State says its 'soldier' behind Nice truck attack
I usually begin with first reports, eye witness accounts of a story before any sheep dipping begins. I let the details develop over time, then arrive at my conclusions...based on vetted data, leaving room to modify my conclusions as data emerges.
The latest data appears to support my initial observations.
This headline is on AP, for any who is following the developing scenario. Google search will produce a number of mainstream sources.
Islamic State says its 'soldier' behind Nice truck attack
txnetcop
Charter Member
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-police-arrest-three-nice-raid-truck-attack-073628855.html?ref=gs
<header id="tgtm-SideTop-0-HeadComponentTitle" class="canvas-header" data-reactid=".1yd60viupf0.$tgtm-SideTop-0-HeadComponentTitle">Police arrest three in Nice as Islamic State claims truck attack
</header>
July 16, 2016
<header id="tgtm-SideTop-0-HeadComponentTitle" class="canvas-header" data-reactid=".1yd60viupf0.$tgtm-SideTop-0-HeadComponentTitle">Police arrest three in Nice as Islamic State claims truck attack
</header>
July 16, 2016
<article data-uuid="06df060e-b25b-3a71-8bef-39dbbad593af" data-type="story" data-reactid=".z4xt4ltjme.$tgtm-Col1-0-ContentCanvas.0">By Richard Lough and Johnny Cotton
NICE, France (Reuters) - Islamic State claimed responsibility on Saturday for the truck attack that killed at least 84 people celebrating Bastille Day in the French city of Nice and police arrested three more people there in connection with the seafront carnage.
"The person who carried out the operation in Nice, France, to run down people was one of the soldiers of Islamic State," the Amaq news agency affiliated with the militant Islamist group said on its Telegram account.
"He carried out the operation in response to calls to target nationals of states that are part of the coalition fighting Islamic State."
French authorities have yet to produce any evidence that the 31 year-old Tunisian killer, shot dead by police in the attack, had turned to radical Islam. Nevertheless, Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said after the claim that a transformation may have happened fast.
"It seems that he was radicalized very quickly -- in any case these are the elements that have come up from the testimony of the people around him," Cazeneuve told reporters.
Speaking from his home town in Tunisia, Bouhlel's sister told Reuters he had been having psychological problems when he left for France in 2005.
Other relatives and friends interviewed in Nice doubted he had militant Islamist leanings.
Saturday's arrests, which came on top of two others since the killing, including the attacker's wife, concerned his "close entourage", police sources said.
Bouhlel had been in France for 10 years and lived locally.
He drove at the crowd in the Riviera city on Thursday night, zig-zagging along the seafront Promenade des Anglais for two kilometers as a fireworks display marking the French national day ended, until police eventually shot him dead.
The attack plunged France into new grief and fear just eight months after gunmen killed 130 people in Paris. Assaults in January 2015 on satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket were also claimed by Islamic State, which controls swathes of Iraq and Syria but is now under military pressure from forces opposed to it.
A state of emergency in place since the Paris killings last November is to be extended for another three months.
Bouhlel was known to police for petty crimes but was not on a watch list of suspected militants. He had one criminal conviction for road rage, having been sentenced to probation three months ago for throwing a wooden pallet at another driver.
(Additional reporting by Omar Fahmy in Cairo, Michel Bernouin, Johnny Cotton and Sophie Sassard in Nice, Robert-Jan Bartunek in Paris, Writing by Michel Rose and Andrew Callus; Editing by Catherine Evans)
</article>
NICE, France (Reuters) - Islamic State claimed responsibility on Saturday for the truck attack that killed at least 84 people celebrating Bastille Day in the French city of Nice and police arrested three more people there in connection with the seafront carnage.
"The person who carried out the operation in Nice, France, to run down people was one of the soldiers of Islamic State," the Amaq news agency affiliated with the militant Islamist group said on its Telegram account.
"He carried out the operation in response to calls to target nationals of states that are part of the coalition fighting Islamic State."
French authorities have yet to produce any evidence that the 31 year-old Tunisian killer, shot dead by police in the attack, had turned to radical Islam. Nevertheless, Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said after the claim that a transformation may have happened fast.
"It seems that he was radicalized very quickly -- in any case these are the elements that have come up from the testimony of the people around him," Cazeneuve told reporters.
Speaking from his home town in Tunisia, Bouhlel's sister told Reuters he had been having psychological problems when he left for France in 2005.
Other relatives and friends interviewed in Nice doubted he had militant Islamist leanings.
Saturday's arrests, which came on top of two others since the killing, including the attacker's wife, concerned his "close entourage", police sources said.
Bouhlel had been in France for 10 years and lived locally.
He drove at the crowd in the Riviera city on Thursday night, zig-zagging along the seafront Promenade des Anglais for two kilometers as a fireworks display marking the French national day ended, until police eventually shot him dead.
The attack plunged France into new grief and fear just eight months after gunmen killed 130 people in Paris. Assaults in January 2015 on satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket were also claimed by Islamic State, which controls swathes of Iraq and Syria but is now under military pressure from forces opposed to it.
A state of emergency in place since the Paris killings last November is to be extended for another three months.
Bouhlel was known to police for petty crimes but was not on a watch list of suspected militants. He had one criminal conviction for road rage, having been sentenced to probation three months ago for throwing a wooden pallet at another driver.
(Additional reporting by Omar Fahmy in Cairo, Michel Bernouin, Johnny Cotton and Sophie Sassard in Nice, Robert-Jan Bartunek in Paris, Writing by Michel Rose and Andrew Callus; Editing by Catherine Evans)
</article>
I think that the internet has made associating yourself with a cause very appealing to what would otherwise be just a mentally or emotionally disturbed person.
In the US we saw that with the nuts who took over the bird sanctuary in Oregon. You had the core group but then all kinds of disturbed people show up to feel part of something.
A cause can give focus to a unstable person who would otherwise be violent on a small scale. Terrorist organizations are happy to take credit for such lone wolfs after the fact.
One of the objectives of terrorism is to provoke a response from a government. The over reaction can be the goal.
Heavy handed reactions on a broad scale such as targeting a particular religion or nationality as some seem to advocate just creates an ideal climate for radicalizing people,disturbed or not, who would otherwise not get involved.
The internet has made it much easier for terrorist organizations to do just that, there is no shortage of people who are looking for a cause or direction in their life and this can be appealing to many unfortunately.
You are not going to fire a missile from a drone and then say, "We got him, we got the last terrorist" there has to be a smarter approach than just taking the short view.
If the plan is to invade or garrison the entire world then it is time to start talking about how it is going to be paid for because we are not covering what we are doing now.
In the US we saw that with the nuts who took over the bird sanctuary in Oregon. You had the core group but then all kinds of disturbed people show up to feel part of something.
A cause can give focus to a unstable person who would otherwise be violent on a small scale. Terrorist organizations are happy to take credit for such lone wolfs after the fact.
One of the objectives of terrorism is to provoke a response from a government. The over reaction can be the goal.
Heavy handed reactions on a broad scale such as targeting a particular religion or nationality as some seem to advocate just creates an ideal climate for radicalizing people,disturbed or not, who would otherwise not get involved.
The internet has made it much easier for terrorist organizations to do just that, there is no shortage of people who are looking for a cause or direction in their life and this can be appealing to many unfortunately.
You are not going to fire a missile from a drone and then say, "We got him, we got the last terrorist" there has to be a smarter approach than just taking the short view.
If the plan is to invade or garrison the entire world then it is time to start talking about how it is going to be paid for because we are not covering what we are doing now.