Jordan King: First Impressions!

[TuFun]

 

[txnetcop]

Thanks Ted

 

[jeffv]

Looks really nice!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Daube]

Thanks a lot for that video.
Finally we can see that new rain effect a bit more precisely. It seems to be much more accurate than I expected. The water drops direction do change progressively based on aircraft speed, this is really cool.

 

[Javis]

Thanks Ted ! Made my day! Very impressive !! (even without sound or anything..)

Can't wait to load it up and experience what it FEELS like ! (personally i am deffinately hoping for a 'touch of MSFlight' when it comes to that..)

Looking at this video i'm getting the feeling that this might indeed have the potential to serve as our new 'standard' flightsimulator for many years to come ?.. Goodbye to FSX, P3D, XPlane once and for all ????...

Maybe, just maybe DTG might be pulling it off finally ??....

Questions, questions, questions.. But surprisingly good number of answers in the video too already.

Pretty exiting all in all !!

(a little dissapointed to realize (after viewing it the first time) that the internal shot from the (back) pax seat (18:12) is not from the sim. I thought that pilot figure was very realistic looking, shadows and all )

Cheers,
Jan

 

[Daube]

Goodbye FSX might be possible.
Goodbye P3D I don't think so. Same for Xplane.
Everything depends on how DTG is going to handle their 3rd party addon policy. So far, it doesn't look so good at all, from that side.

 

[Javis]

Goodbye FSX might be possible.
Goodbye P3D I don't think so. Same for Xplane.
Everything depends on how DTG is going to handle their 3rd party addon policy. So far, it doesn't look so good at all, from that side.

Well, maybe i'm the exception that proves the rule but personally i am not that sceptical about that. Always been a big fan of their TrainSim franchise. Same thing. They took MSTrainsimulator and, via 'Railworks' and 'TS201X', turned it into quite the amazing TrainSimWorld CSX that has been just released. All these years wagonloads of freeware and payware stuff available, be it trains, sceneries, routes, scenarios or whatever. And certainly not only available via DTG or Steam.

Sure the're not in this trade to catch flies but TrainSim proves the're fully aware of how important 3rd party freeware and payware is in the simming business. Big Brother MS proved without any doubt what will happen otherwise, didn't it..

Will they change this policy, that remains the question ( i guess.... )

THE 'standard' flightsimulator ( like FS en FSX have always been) *without* independent 3rd party payware or freeware i just cannot picture.. That would really be ridiculous, wouldn't it.

 

[Daube]

From what I heard so far, the summary is the following:
- 3rd party devs can sell their addons on their own webstores, as long as these addons are ALSO available through Steam
- For an addon sold on Steam, 30% of the price is for Steam, and 30% of the rest is taken by DTG. That leaves a bit less than 50% for the dev.
- In that computation above, it is not clear how taxes are integrated. In my country, that's 20% taken away by the state.
- Nobody knows if a dev is allowed to set a different price for his addon in his own store than in Steam.
- All of the points above might make the addons more expensive that they've ever been.
- Another dev has mentionned something about a 90 days exclusive period for the product on Steam (no other stores allowed during that period), before it can be sold on the dev's own store. I don't know where that info is coming from, though...

Such elements are not answered by DTG at the moment. So I have no idea if these are true or just some mis-interpretation of something written somewhere...
However, if these are true, then I can hardly imagine any serious addon maker producing anything for FSW.
And in that case, FSW = MS Flight = soon to be dead.

And yes, I know that other stores like PCAviator or Simmarket etc... also take something like 30% on the FSX/P3D products... however, in these case, you didn't have another 30% taken by Microsoft or LM. Then Microsoft tried to do that with MS Flight, and we all know what happened.

 

[stiz]

- For an addon sold on Steam, 30% of the price is for Steam, and 30% of the rest is taken by DTG. That leaves a bit less than 50% for the dev.

.. thats a rumour, not fact.. by a dev known to be a bit grumpy at times ..

 

[Mach3DS]

The issue isn't selling the product. It's where it's sold from. Not because of difficulty in getting them to sell on Steam, but because of the exact opposite! Who would buy from the manufacturer website if they can get it through steam? Much easier. So what it comes down to is price. Aircraft add-ons are VASTLY superior in terms of time and complexity to create than train simulator. At least in terms of Add-ons with the with of Milviz VRS PMDG etc. Not even a fair comparison to train sim. So, does a high end payware manufacturer increase prices to make up for the cost of doing business on Steam with essential the same consumer base? Increase from already a stage of $50 / adding? To What? $90/aircaft? Let's see what happens...

Replace P3D? Haha.... I SERIOUSLY doubt it. P3D is basically a defacto ACES studios for all purposes.

I've heard similar thing regarding pricing direct from a high end dev. If it is true, its not worth their time/money to invest in a sim with such little return. Compared to.other avenues available.

 

[Daube]

.. thats a rumour, not fact.. by a dev known to be a bit grumpy at times ..

I could read that information from a french scenery developer forum, but it seems this was the policy from two years ago, for FSX Steam I guess.
Now, the question is: what is the policy for FSW ? Is it going to be different from FSX-Steam ? Are the 30% for DTG and the 3 months exclusivity still relevant ? And finally: where are these questions officially answered by DTG ?

 

[Javis]

From what I heard so far, the summary is the following:
- 3rd party devs can sell their addons on their own webstores, as long as these addons are ALSO available through Steam
- For an addon sold on Steam, 30% of the price is for Steam, and 30% of the rest is taken by DTG. That leaves a bit less than 50% for the dev.

Smells like Sopranos to me.... That would be totally ridiculous. Can't believe any dev would go along with that. Even if it might be taken into account that many more copies would be sold because of Steam it would still be completely wrong. A cheap money grabbing operation that wouldn't work at all if you ask me. I can't really believe DTG would be taking that dead end street. They must be fully aware of how valuable 3rd Party devs are, payware and freeware alike. They can provide content for their precious brandnew simulator only so much themselves. We wouldn't even be discussing this new sim if not for 3rd party devs. They, and only they, have kept our beloved flight- and train sims alive thru decades. ( even FSX is officially dead for more than a decade but still alive thru 3rd party devs). DTG knows that first hand. Now throw that all overboard with these ridiculous 3rd party developer conditions ?... That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I still believe DTG loves their new baby and by the first peak into its cradle it's quite a beautiful baby !

Replace P3D? Haha.... I SERIOUSLY doubt it. P3D is basically a defacto ACES studios for all purposes.

Isn't it true that DTG contracted a fair amount of ACES studios as well ?..

Just recently i have been setting up and dressing up P3Dv3 and now am thinking about what i have always thought of as impossible : remove FSX from its own SSD... P3Dv3 way ahead of FSX, absolutely and unmistakeably. But now this new FSW video above.... And it's only the first act of course, but i kinda have the same feeling as i had with comparing P3Dv3 with FSX. The only difference is it's only a video still... I'll be sure not to get rid of P3Dv3 of course, heck i just installed it and am very much enjoying it. And am still looking forward to v4 too of course. I have bought and tried quite a few versions of XPlane, now XP10, but i just can't get used to it. Nightflying is truly breathtaking at times though. I hope we'll get to see something like that in FSW or P3Dv4 as well.

Rain in FSW is totally awesome ( have been so in TS201X for a long time already as well), ugly wobbly spinning prop image is unbelievable really, hopefully not addressed yet...

( sorry, raving about FSW even without having it but still manage to end with something negative about it... ;-)

 

[Javis]

The issue isn't selling the product. It's where it's sold from. Not because of difficulty in getting them to sell on Steam, but because of the exact opposite! Who would buy from the manufacturer website if they can get it through steam? Much easier.

Afraid i'm guilty of that myself...

So what it comes down to is price. Aircraft add-ons are VASTLY superior in terms of time and complexity to create than train simulator. At least in terms of Add-ons with the with of Milviz VRS PMDG etc. Not even a fair comparison to train sim.

Absolutely true. But you're talking aircraft models versus train models (locs, coaches, wagons, dmu's, emu's, etc). However building a route for TS can easily take a development of 2 or even 3 years as well. Certainly not as complex as building a modern airliner or jetfighter with lots of systems included but hard work nontheless. ( believe me i know.. ;-)

So, does a high end payware manufacturer increase prices to make up for the cost of doing business on Steam with essential the same consumer base? Increase from already a stage of $50 / adding? To What? $90/aircaft?

And what about $130 to, what.....$200 for a DC-6 !?? ( i believe PMDG DC-6 for P3Dv3 will cost $130 atm... )

Money, money, money
It ain't funny
In a flightsim world

Let's see what happens...

Agreed !

And i still believe DTG won't go that way !

 

[Mach3DS]

You'd think a program developer would understand. Enter beaurocracy and the bottom line with an online game play business model. MS understood too ??? Go figure!

I don't want to criticize the DTG achievement....it looks superb no doubt! I watched it on my 55" HDR TV and it looks real at least the aircraft do. But I do criticize the business model. Anything less than a 100% 3rd party support will stiffle the lifeblood which kept FS alive for so many years. It's a slap in the face really...without these efforts they wouldn't be releasing this game. Without freeware develooment or independent vendors I just dont see the will to create for FSW in the same way as has happened thus far. Even though it looks very nice. I'm hoping to be completely wrong., but $$$ talks. So until about the next quarter well just sit back and watch the fireworks!

 

[Mach3DS]

Also for $20...you can't go wrong right? At leadt for their stated support of 5 years maybe more...but what happens after that if they get bored or no longer want to support it?? Do developers still need to go through steam? That would be asinine me thinks. Hopefully these questions will be answered in time.

 

[Bradburger]

Not sure if anyone caught the DT FSW livestream yesterday, but if you didn't : -

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/141791355

Cheers

Paul