KMTP_Montauk Trees

[falcon409]

A few folks have expressed some problems with trees encroaching on the Runway and taxiway. I have whittled away at the trees until I have (I hope) fixed the problem to everyone's satisfaction. As an example of how fickle tree placement can be in the Annotator, I found that on final approach over the Sound, there were too many tall trees and they actually hid the end of the runway so I removed quite a few off the centerline. I loaded the sim to check and there were still some encroaching to right of center. I went back to the annotator, removed the remaining trees left and right of the centerline and checked again. This time there were trees on both sides that had not been there previously and were displaying where there were no trees at all in the annotator.

I run my vegetation at its max setting and it never fails that depending on the season I can have trees pop up in a spot where there are none at other seasonal settings. Placing individual trees does not guarantee that every one of those trees will display every time, nor does it guarantee that they will display in the exact position they are placed, as position seems to fluctuate based on Season and density settings. It is far from an exact science despite what I've been told by experts, lol.

https://app.box.com/s/r2kh2h61eyy0o4t6ttlfyeglwvcpwqcx

 

[falcon409]

By the way, although it should be obvious. . .delete the current agn files and replace with this new set.

 

[aspen31]

Hi
Thanks for all the work. With the new files in place I now have trees immediately beside the runway with settings "dense" but trees right across the runway and taxiway - same area as the screen shot - with setting "very dense". Approach seems better. It also seems to me that without touching the settings if I shut Prepar3D down and restart selecting KMTP trees are showing up where they were not previously. Very strange. First screen shot is "very dense", second and third "dense". Approach looks okay.
Warren (aspen31)

 

[falcon409]

Hi
Thanks for all the work. With the new files in place I now have trees immediately beside the runway with settings "dense" but trees right across the runway and taxiway - same area as the screen shot - with setting "very dense". Approach seems better. It also seems to me that without touching the settings if I shut Prepar3D down and restart selecting KMTP trees are showing up where they were not previously. Very strange. First screen shot is "very dense", second and third "dense". Approach looks okay.
Warren (aspen31)

I am at a loss Warren. There are no trees within 60' of the runway, yet you have trees sitting on the runway. My only suggestion is to delve into ADE a bit more as far as excludes are concerned. If you can load ADE, have the sim running at the same time and put yourself in the "top Down view" so that the crosshairs that represent your aircrafts position, it will show in ADE. Then move to a tree that's a problem, draw an exclude and tag it to "exclude autogen" and move on to the next tree and so on. I can't move trees that aren't there and I have no explanation for why you have them.

 

[aspen31]

Hi
Time permitting I'll play with ADE. Many years ago I spent time at a flying club where tress seemed awfully close to the runway so I guess it's not unheard of. That big Oak in the middle - now there's a challenge.
Thanks
Warren

 

[gman5250]

Autogen accuracy can be tightened up by a significant factor by adding this code string to your FSX or P3D .cfg files.

[TERRAIN] IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=1024
or
[TERRAIN] IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=2048

The tweak tightens up the simulator interpretation of how closely, in meters, it recognizes autogen annotation boundaries for vegetation squares (V) or regions (I). The higher the number, the tighter the placement. You can get to placements of 1 meter in accuracy. Default is about as accurate as throwing hand grenades...blindfolded.

You can go to 2048, which is what I use for my scenery that utilizes autogen very close to roads, houses etc. I haven't seen any adverse performance when using this tweak, and it tightens up accuracy globally. Even at higher autogen settings in the sim, the trees will stay within the boundaries of the intended placements.

Developers pull their hair out trying to accurately place autogen trees. The fix lets you really zero in on accuracy, but absolutely demands the tweak on the end users setup.


Ed, you can place those trees in close proximity to the runways and airport infrastructure by annotating them as individual squares (V). One small square for one tree, then use the polygons (I) once you get farther out and want general coverage. I usually hand place each individual tree up to about a half mile out from the airport. It's an extra few hours of work, but you get super accurate control of placements on your photo real. I use a WACOM pad and pen for annotation...much easier than using the mouse.

Hope this helps.

 

[falcon409]

I only place using the squares actually (A suggestion from Holger Sandman a long time ago). I found the Poly to be too inaccurate and too sparse for my taste. The other shots are showing Montauk with "Extremely Dense", "Dense" and "Sparce" settings.

 

[falcon409]

One other note: I no longer use default ground textures or land class. Both my FSX and P3D Sims utilize Orbx products exclusively. When I was given the option to back up my default textures I declined so I have nothing to revert to if I needed to text scenery with default ground textures or land class.

 

[gman5250]

I only place using the squares actually. I found the Poly to be too inaccurate and too sparse for my taste. The other shots are showing Montauk with "Extremely Dense", "Dense" and "Sparce" settings.

I only use the regions in larger areas, like back country. You can overlap regions and effectively increase the coverage...but not specific placements. Try the tweak I mentioned and see if that lets you control your trees better. When I release my scenery, it will be mandatory to use the tweak or there will be trees all over the place, where there should be no trees.

The default accuracy setting for FSX and P3D is 16, but increasing the number by a factor of two up to 2048 is effective. You can see how the accuracy doubles exponentially each time the value is doubled. I develop for 1024, but my personal stash is very tight at 2048.

Another handy tip on increasing autogen density. Use this sparingly, it can tank performance.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/555739

 

[gman5250]

One other note: I no longer use default ground textures or land class. Both my FSX and P3D Sims utilize Orbx products exclusively. When I was given the option to back up my default textures I declined so I have nothing to revert to if I needed to text scenery with default ground textures or land class.

Don't worry about that. The ORBX land class and autogen do not alter your basic values/settings. In fact they have a default value that they use to avoid complications like encroaching trees.

I use ORBX globally, but in the last year I've been doing beta on my own autogen. It's what you see in my video and stills.

Edit:

Looking at your stills, you should be able to hand place your trees as autogen right up to the runway edges and threshold with no problem if you use the high accuracy setting in the config file. Even running extremely dense you should be fine, the trees will be thicker...but not spilling out of their "boxes".

Montauk is tight like the Tipella scenery I did for ORBX.
I'd choose the trees at the threshold carefully, not too tall. Those are deciduous, so there are a lot of choices. I'd go with the 2048 setting if you really want to zero the thing in, but experiment with 1024 and see how things behave.

Hey, by the way, you should create an animated "Junior", just to complete the scenery. He could sprint across the runway every few hours or so.

I'll be glad to give it a beta run for you if you would like.

G

 

[gaab]

Hello Ed,

I have a similar issue with PAPI almost hidden by trees (autogen very dense)

I stay gratefull for all your nice scenery.

Gérard

 

[unclegreg]

I've worked with this scenery a bit and found some ways to bring it out of the trees. I raised the airport elevation in ADEX to 9 feet ASL and
removed the CVX_Montauk.bgl and the photo.bgl. I don't know why the photo.bgl affects the scenery the way it does but without it the results are-

unclegreg

 

[falcon409]

Yea, I guess that's one way to get it out of the trees. . .Wow!

 

[falcon409]

I really can't let this go without asking. . .Can you explain to me what you meant by your statement. . ."I don't know why the photo.bgl affects the scenery the way it does"
I'm just curious as to what it was the photo.bgl file did to the scenery that didn't work for you.

 

[unclegreg]

falcon409,
There were still trees across the runway with the photo.bgl in the folder. Without the photo.bgl there are no trees. I mean no disrespect to you or your work. I'm using FSX Sp2.

unclegreg

 

[falcon409]

falcon409,
There were still trees across the runway with the photo.bgl in the folder. Without the photo.bgl there are no trees. I mean no disrespect to you or your work. I'm using FSX Sp2.
unclegreg

GMan has noted in his posts above that there is a way to confine trees to their original placement. Add that to your FSX.cfg file as directed, reset the airport runway to it's proper elevation, put the photo bgl and CVX file back (it's a flatten for the entire area of the runway, taxiway and parking ramp) and the scenery should be fine. The photo bgl is what the trees are tied to. The trees are placed exactly where there are trees on the satellite photo so when you remove the photo.bgl all the trees attached to that go with it.

Just a friendly word of advice. . .if you feel the need to do this to other scenery, freeware or payware that's fine, if that's what you think looks ok. . .fine by me. . .just don't publish it so that I or some other scenery builder can gaze at it and wonder why we bother. Fair enough?

 

[unclegreg]

My apologies, lesson learned.

unclegreg