Lt Alois Heldmann (15 victories)
- Thread starter huub vink
- Start date
Mr.V, I like it V much, all it needs are a few roundels and we're all set, lol.
Seriously, my fav so far, nothing like some real camo to make a warbird look the part.
Jamie
Seriously, my fav so far, nothing like some real camo to make a warbird look the part.
Jamie
brad kaste
Charter Member
Huub,
Just a question of curiosity: How are you able to determine the color/color patterns of an aircraft? Of course color film wasn't around in WWI. Or is it more of a 'guess-ti-mation' from looking at old black and white photos? Or published books that actually show a fairly accurate color chip what WWI aircraft looked like?
-Brad
Just a question of curiosity: How are you able to determine the color/color patterns of an aircraft? Of course color film wasn't around in WWI. Or is it more of a 'guess-ti-mation' from looking at old black and white photos? Or published books that actually show a fairly accurate color chip what WWI aircraft looked like?
-Brad
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Huub's a painting fool! :mixedsmi:
wombat666
Administrator
There is a large amount of very good material out there for WWI enthusiasts.
Can't recall the name but one of the British 'leading lights' had a great collection of original fabric samples.
It used to drive most of us in the 'Cross&Cockade' group up the wall .....:d
There are a few genuine color photos taken by an Australian Photographer who's name also escapes me (CRAFT Syndrome!) but most colours are down to 'interpretation'.
Given that Ortho Film gives very different results from Litho Film, as in Yellow photographs as a very dark shade while RFC Blue comes out as a light tone, one can make a pretty good 'guestimate'.
Usually if a colour is questionable it is noted as 'this might be red or might be yellow', but there are records of unit colours, the type of pigments available between 1914-1918, and in the case of a German or Austro-Hungarian individual schemes, the former Regimental Colours of the pilot are often the key.
But it does tend to boil down to educated guess work and a stack of good reference material.
Cazzie
SOH-CM-2024
Beautiful Huub, nothing like Mauve and Dark Olive. :ernae:
Brad, there are loads of reference culled from restorers. For the most part, I trust these folks and use the color charts and swathes at Simmer's Paint Shop. I also keep swathes of my own in Photoshop labeled in the time periods, i.e. Central Powers WW I.
As noted, some repaints involve using only a black and white photo for guide. In all of these the colors can only be speculative.
Caz
Brad, there are loads of reference culled from restorers. For the most part, I trust these folks and use the color charts and swathes at Simmer's Paint Shop. I also keep swathes of my own in Photoshop labeled in the time periods, i.e. Central Powers WW I.
As noted, some repaints involve using only a black and white photo for guide. In all of these the colors can only be speculative.
Caz
Colours
Brad,
Colours are always a cause of hot debates. When you only look at German WW-I printed lozenge for instance, there are many interpretations of how the colours looked 90 years ago. Even based of the original samples of the fabric, different research often ends up in different results. I think Wombat is referring to Dan San Abbott who is quite an authority on WW-I aircrafts, has an original Lozenge sample, but guys like Alan Toelle and Mark Miller have quite different ideas also based on original colour samples.
It is impossible to identify exact colours from black and white pictures. Even colour pictures won't give you the exact colour, because the type of film, exposure to light, condition during which the pictures were taken, the way the picture was printed etc. all have their effect.
Sometimes the effects can be quite weird. There are many black and White pictures, taken with a certain brand of film, on which red is seen as black and real black actually is a bit greyish....
I have a few colour samples (chips of paint) from the Luftwaffe RLM colours taken from crashed aircrafts. Paint samples taken from the same plane, from the same colour, even differ due to the exposure to light or the conditions to which the aircraft has been exposed for the last 60 years.
Site like "The Simmer's paint shop" provide good background information. Normally I choose the colour which seems most logical and when I have to make a choice between the most logical colours, I take the one which looks the nicest.
For this repaint the base colour is referred to as "mauve", I took the actual colour from a profile, which supplied the pattern as well. As I don't have a picture from the actual aircraft it was the best I could get. The green is the same green as used on tail from the Jasta 5 aircraft, as I don't think colours were made in many different shades during the war.
For the blue Jasta 15 aircrafts I took the RAL standard colour "Signalblau" (signal blue) as I found a reference which called the basic colour for Jasta 15 aircrafts signal blue. However do also realise that our monitors aren't calibrated and the shade of blue is actually different from the shade of blue on your monitor.
Cheers,
Huub
Brad,
Colours are always a cause of hot debates. When you only look at German WW-I printed lozenge for instance, there are many interpretations of how the colours looked 90 years ago. Even based of the original samples of the fabric, different research often ends up in different results. I think Wombat is referring to Dan San Abbott who is quite an authority on WW-I aircrafts, has an original Lozenge sample, but guys like Alan Toelle and Mark Miller have quite different ideas also based on original colour samples.
It is impossible to identify exact colours from black and white pictures. Even colour pictures won't give you the exact colour, because the type of film, exposure to light, condition during which the pictures were taken, the way the picture was printed etc. all have their effect.
Sometimes the effects can be quite weird. There are many black and White pictures, taken with a certain brand of film, on which red is seen as black and real black actually is a bit greyish....
I have a few colour samples (chips of paint) from the Luftwaffe RLM colours taken from crashed aircrafts. Paint samples taken from the same plane, from the same colour, even differ due to the exposure to light or the conditions to which the aircraft has been exposed for the last 60 years.
Site like "The Simmer's paint shop" provide good background information. Normally I choose the colour which seems most logical and when I have to make a choice between the most logical colours, I take the one which looks the nicest.
For this repaint the base colour is referred to as "mauve", I took the actual colour from a profile, which supplied the pattern as well. As I don't have a picture from the actual aircraft it was the best I could get. The green is the same green as used on tail from the Jasta 5 aircraft, as I don't think colours were made in many different shades during the war.
For the blue Jasta 15 aircrafts I took the RAL standard colour "Signalblau" (signal blue) as I found a reference which called the basic colour for Jasta 15 aircrafts signal blue. However do also realise that our monitors aren't calibrated and the shade of blue is actually different from the shade of blue on your monitor.
Cheers,
Huub
And sometimes you have people who are kind enough to share their reference material with you :d.
Randy "Baron von Blutwurst" Foss, was so kind to share his colour chart with me. I have changed the bright green into "Albatros" green. I think it looks nice enough
so I will upload tomorrow.
Cheers,
Huub
Randy "Baron von Blutwurst" Foss, was so kind to share his colour chart with me. I have changed the bright green into "Albatros" green. I think it looks nice enough
so I will upload tomorrow.Cheers,
Huub
A little help from my friends!
Randy Lee Foss aka Baron von Blutwurst, supplied me information about the colours, I decided to follow his advise and changed the "mauve" into the "Albatros mauve", which is a bit more purple.
Those who prefer the blue-ish mauve can drop me a PM with their e-mail address and I will e-mail these textures as soon as possible.
Cazzie Dalton was so kind to supply me the correct fonts for the aircraft registration number.
And when Douglas is around next time he will make the model available, was it has been uploaded already.
(It is already available actually, thank Douglas
)
Cheers,
Huub
Randy Lee Foss aka Baron von Blutwurst, supplied me information about the colours, I decided to follow his advise and changed the "mauve" into the "Albatros mauve", which is a bit more purple.
Those who prefer the blue-ish mauve can drop me a PM with their e-mail address and I will e-mail these textures as soon as possible.
Cazzie Dalton was so kind to supply me the correct fonts for the aircraft registration number.
And when Douglas is around next time he will make the model available, was it has been uploaded already.
(It is already available actually, thank Douglas
)Cheers,
Huub
You know Huub, I think I might actually prefer the girly pink one :costumes:, no really.
I've done paints in the past with to the best of my knowledge, correct colours, to find out that they were not, possibly not, probably not, deffinetly not (delete as applicable). Changed them, only to find that I prefered the look of the wrong ones, whilst it may have just been that I'd got used to them, it was still a slightly saddening feeling consigning them to the bin.
I've done paints in the past with to the best of my knowledge, correct colours, to find out that they were not, possibly not, probably not, deffinetly not (delete as applicable). Changed them, only to find that I prefered the look of the wrong ones, whilst it may have just been that I'd got used to them, it was still a slightly saddening feeling consigning them to the bin.
wombat666
Administrator
Then we have the other great variable factor, the printer!
Is he having a good day or does he have a hangover?
Maybe the apprentice is running the job and he likes a little extra Cyan in his prints to make a nice bright green.
Of course, the different print stock will make a huge difference, let alone the colour seperations!
:isadizzy:
Is he having a good day or does he have a hangover?
Maybe the apprentice is running the job and he likes a little extra Cyan in his prints to make a nice bright green.
Of course, the different print stock will make a huge difference, let alone the colour seperations!
:isadizzy: