MS Siderwinder glitching

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Roger55

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Hello

I'm running FS9 on a XP machine. I have a CH Throttle Quadrant and a MS Sidwinder c 2000. The Sidewinder is beginning to Glitch in X and Y. I either need to know how to fix it or get some recomendations on what is equvalent out there that won't cost as much as a new car.

Probably been using this stick since only 2004. Nothing lasts these days!:gameoff:.

Anyone seen this sheep before:sheep: on a NY to Paris flight? Maybe you know me.

Roger55

Beware the Stork!
 
I had a Wingman Extreme that produces glitches for quite awhile. Took it apart and cleaned it and inspected it with a magifying glass to try get it working properly again. It was well used from new. Greased it where I thought it needed a minute dab of lube. Even took the pots apart to clean and inspect them.

It never fixed the problem. I'd imagine those variable resistance pots had too much ware on their contact surfaces.

Then one day while at a Habitat For Humanity I noticed they get donated computers, printers, game controllers and there on the table was a gauky looking controller stick. It had a crude look to it and didn't look as streamlined and cool looking as my old Wingman that had worn out.

They wanted $3.00 for it. I started to not buy it because it's design looked so crude and gaucky looking. It was a Saitek AV8R-01 which I wasn't familiar with that brand. Later found out it is a popular controller and it works great and appears that it was tight, worked smoothly, and hardly ever used.

Habitat takes in a lot of donations, some of those donations come from higher income stat donators for various reasons. Check one of those re-stores, you never know.

I'd say your controller is most likely worn out and need to get a new one. However you may be able to refurbish your old one but it will probably eat up a lot of your time and most likely those potentiometers (pots) are the culprit of the glitches. Be better time spent finding a new controller.

If I remember correctly the pots have a carbon surface to get the variable resistance and as the contact arm glides across that surface it wears a path on the board material and eventually it removes the carbon resistance surface, like scratching paint away, thus losing good continuity with the metal contact swiper arm. Next way to fix it would be to order and replace the pots from whatever scource you could order them from (the controller's mfgr?) (electronics stores?) Seems like that would be troublesome. Finding a new or a used working controller would be easier. Probably easier than reading my long boring posts. Lol!

Hope this helps!
 
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick

Anyone know something about this stick I found on Amazon? Never had to program the Sidewinder. XP just just recognized it. This stick is at the top of my price range. USB and someone said they were using it with FS2002 in their reviews (don't think too much of the reviews).

Roger55

Beware the Stork
 
Roger55 said:
Anyone know something about this stick I found on Amazon? Never had to program the Sidewinder. XP just just recognized it. This stick is at the top of my price range.
Click to expand...

That's a good stick. No force feedback, though, if that's something you need. They're quality joysticks, though. I've got two... one I use as a flight stick, the other I've bolted to a few bits of plywood and am using for rudder pedals. The twist axis gets gummed up not in frequently... I've had to clean the thing perhaps once a year, but it is otherwise reliable. Don't pay more than $20-$25, though. They're good, but not high-end.
 
Thrustmaster T-Flight Stick X Flight Stick -

Thanks for the evaluation of that last stick's durability.

Here's another one. I found searching through the list. Amazon says it's set up for FSX, and if you read carefully it also is set up for PS3. The reviews say it dosn't work with PS (so what? to me) I don't know whether being set up for FSX is a plus or a minus? I put on the PC and XP filters but Amazon's system filters seem pretty dense. This one seems pricey to me at $28. The CH product is even more $$$.

Minimum for me is a hat, X axis, Y axis, and Z rotation. Force feed back? Who cares.


I have only two combat sims on board, Stormavik, and Over The Front (CFS3). I mess with them less than FS9.

They want $115 new for a new Sidewinder.:isadizzy: That's a $100 rise in the price for what?

Roger55

Beware the Stork!
 
Depends on the Sidewinder. When WalMart had mine at full price it was well over $100. But, MS got out of the PC joystick business years ago when they came out with the X-box.

My first Sidewinder was a force feedback Precision Pro version that I caught on sale for $75 that was originally $125 at WalMart. Then I caught the non FFB version on sale for $50 and bought it for a backup. I gave up on the FFB stick within a year due to power supply issues with it and started using the regular one. This was around 2001. I'm still using that stick and it's still going strong. I've kept my old FFB stick and another that I bought used for parts just in case but haven't needed them yet.

These are the original Sidewinder Precision Pro sticks. About the time that I caught mine on sale, they came out with a Precision Pro 2 stick that is shaped different and has different internals

Wiki said:
This is also one of the first joysticks to use light sensors instead of potentiometers so it required no calibration, and thus had no electronical moving parts. The only moving parts were mechanical on the throttle and joystick pivots which gave this joystick virtually unlimited lifetime. The Precision Pro 2 had reintroduced potentiometers to save money and thus their lifetime was limited to wear and tear of the potentiometers.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SideWinder

Precision Pro:

View attachment 94656

Precision Pro 2:

View attachment 94657

Mrs Willy has standard orders that while out doing the yardsale thing, if she comes across a Microsoft joystick to buy it. That's netted me a FFB Precision Pro without power supply (parts stick) and a couple of Precision Pro 2 sticks that are dust collectors. If you can find an original Precision Pro with the light sensors, buy it! I'd stay away from the 2.
 
Lube?

You don't EVER 'lube' the surfaces of a joystick by using any kind of petroleum based product. But you CAN use a dryer (anti static) sheet to rub it for lubrication. Seems like the 'oil' on those sheets will lubricate joystick (plastic) surfaces without harming them. Anti static will repel some of that fine dust that settles on inner workings.

I have 3 MS Sidewinder 2 (non FF). One (Sidewinder Precision Pro 2) is main joy. One is backup and the third is for parts if needed. I have had ONLY MS Sidewinder sticks since I started simming (FS98) and won't buy any other stick. I got 2 used ($5) at 2nd hand stores. These stick have no springs (pity the fool) and has twist grip for flying helicopters. I jamed the throttle slider in place (using calibration within FS9 and FSX), set slider to 'zero' (0) and use a USB Keypad (sits on left of keyboard) to work throttle, etc. I used F1 thru F4 for awhile for helios. But the USB Keypad (Targus brand) works like a charm. You can map keys to suit your tast. See pic for my set up. I love my Sidewinders.
Chuck B
Napamule
 
Willy said:
These are the original Sidewinder Precision Pro sticks. About the time that I caught mine on sale, they came out with a Precision Pro 2 stick that is shaped different and has different internals



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SideWinder

Precision Pro:

View attachment 94656

Precision Pro 2:

View attachment 94657

Mrs Willy has standard orders that while out doing the yardsale thing, if she comes across a Microsoft joystick to buy it. That's netted me a FFB Precision Pro without power supply (parts stick) and a couple of Precision Pro 2 sticks that are dust collectors. If you can find an original Precision Pro with the light sensors, buy it! I'd stay away from the 2.
Click to expand...


Willy,

I have a 2. I didn't know it until you put the picture in your post. The Box calls it a Sidwinder USB. Nothing on the box or in the manual says anything but MS Sidewinder.

The other stick I have is more primative. It has no z rotation to assign to the rudder. It just has a Z slider for a throttle. It also has no hat switch so looking around a VC is a pain. Its kind of like the the old DOS sticks I used with the Lucas Film and Dynamix programs excepy it has eight buttons.

Now maybe I got the Flight Stick (i think that was what it was called) for less than $20, and I'm confusing that with the Sidewinder. Maybe I paid more on Amazon; I don't remember for sure now.

So I guess no one thinks to much of the two sticks I found for under $30?

Roger55
 
Lube-No

Napamule,

Since I'm not sure how the thing comes apart, and how to put anything that falls out back together all I have ever done is use fabric sofeners on the surface.

If what the one guy wrote, that the works are variable resistors (pots) that use a scraping motion across a graphite surface to vary the resistance, then opening and cleaning might fix nothing.

Roger55
 
A quick way to tell the difference is how it plugs in. The Precision Pro uses the old game port type connector and came with an adapter to USB. The Precision Pro 2 is straight USB. The throttle is different and the older stick has more buttons.
 
Found all the original Boxes.

Willy

Found all the boxes. The one I have out and in the USB port is a Sidwinder Precision Pro 2 (lable on the Box). XP an FS9 recognizes it. Never used the inclosed CD (it had an inclosed CD). Its the one with a hat button, X, Y, and z axies, plus a z rotation for the rudder. It has eight buttons.


The other box just says SideWinder Joystick: "Simple set up. Solid control". It has x, y, and z axies and eight buttons. No rotation and no hat button. XP and FS9 recognize it. It has a built in USB plug in. There is no gameport to USB adapter. I'm pretty sure I didn't use it long. It looks like the last DOS stick I had except that stick had Just two buttons MGs and Cannon in Dynamix Games AOP and AOE.


I think it was the rudder that got me to buy the Precision 2 and the 3D Cockpits convinced me the hat button was very useful.

That's why when I asked for stick recomendations, I specified those attributes.

I'm not itching to get a new stick. It looks like they need set up progams to be recognized and from the sound of things on Amazon tech support is not very good for any of them.

I was hoping this thread would produce more recomendations but maybe everyone has Windows 7, or FS9 which comes with all those great old stock planes is now passe. Or maybe no one remembers me--been gone too long.


Roger55

Beware ths Stork!
 
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick

Amazon says this is XP compatible.

Logitech's site does not list Windows XP. Their support pages are only for people who bought into Windows 8. Their package inclosure is a CYA warning folder. It looks like its a Windows 7 stick.


It's beautiful. You can't ask support a question about it unless you own it. Catcha 22.

Their pages are hard to get to using IE.


Can't get a bit of information just gaming hype.

The WWW a great source of information:icon_lol:.
 
I had it in my head once to replace my Sidewinder and bought a Saitek Cyborg with FFB. It worked ok, but vibrated constantly and was stiff as heck. After about a week, I went back to the Sidewinder and never thought about replacing it again. Before the Sidewinder I was using a Logitech Wingman Extreme twist grip stick and liked it at the time. It was also pretty stiff too though.

Don't feel lonesome about still running XP. I am too and am in no hurry to change.

That Saitek has two throttle levers which is what attracted me to it to begin with. What it didn't say on the box was that even with two levers, they just worked the same throttle function.
 
Hey Willy

I spent all afternoon after the Logitech game looking for some site that talked about repairing a Sidewinder some people said you can clean it some said said you couldn't fix it. Nobody would would say what's inside.

As far as I know there could be springs in there that if they pop out, they cannot be put back in with a special tool(s).

Would just a description break some code of secrecy? Will the MS police descend:icon31: to screw up the `puter that anyone who reveals the secret is using:tgun2:? Then of course, there are the endless sales pitches :a1089:.

I've got a Trottle Quadrent for my four engine planes.


The Pro Peddals won't fit under new desk. I thought this would be easy.


Roger55


Beware the Stork (I've met him!)
 
I've got no idea on the guts in a Precision Pro 2 as I've never had one apart, but it's supposed to have potentionmeters (sp?) where my older model Precision Pro using light sensors with very few moving parts. I've had my PP apart a few times for cleaning and some light lubrication as well as my old FFB Precision Pro when it was having power supply issues. The only spring that I'm aware of is one on the main handle shaft to center the stick and it's not liable to jump out. But as I said, I've never had a PP2 apart as the one I have is supposed to be a functional stick.

If you take it apart, you might be able to clean around the potentionmeters of any gunk that has built up.

Give me some time here. I'm going to potentially sacrifice a PP2 to see how it comes apart and goes back together.
 
Willy said:
I had it in my head once to replace my Sidewinder and bought a Saitek Cyborg with FFB. It worked ok, but vibrated constantly and was stiff as heck. After about a week, I went back to the Sidewinder and never thought about replacing it again. Before the Sidewinder I was using a Logitech Wingman Extreme twist grip stick and liked it at the time. It was also pretty stiff too though.

Don't feel lonesome about still running XP. I am too and am in no hurry to change.

That Saitek has two throttle levers which is what attracted me to it to begin with. What it didn't say on the box was that even with two levers, they just worked the same throttle function.
Click to expand...

The Saitek I have also has two throttle levers. The two throttle levers can be set up for left and right engines for twin engined aircraft.

To do this you have to crank up FS and go to the settings page and you must set up Throttle 1 for left engine throttle lever and Throttle 2 for the right engine throttle lever.

Can't remember why, but I think it was annoying for some reason. I think it was because when you have it set up for a twin and then go to fly a four engined plane, both left and right throttle levers would only throttle left No1 engine and left No2 engines thus the four engined plane would pull unsemetrically towards the right. So I went back to using only one throttle for all planes.

Although at the time I didn't think about it, and haven't tried it that I remember having tried it, it may be possible to set it up using left throttle lever for No 1 engine, and the right throttle lever for No 4 engine. Or possibly it may need to be Left No 2 and Right No 3, or whatever in order to get symetrical engine power to twins and be able to also fly four engined aircraft although you would only have left and right power on four engined aircraft. And am not sure this can be done with any of those scenarios.

So you can actually work two different functions with the two throttle levers for twins, but you have to set them up for separate engines with the controls setting page and move your appropriate levers to initiate those settings. I know you can set it up for twins and I think the left throttle was still good for single engine throttle, but it was with that twin set-up and couldn't fly four engined planes because of only power to the left side engines that I went back and set it up for only using a single throttle for all aircraft.

Just thought about this but haven't tried, it may also be possible to use the second throttle lever to trigger something other than what it was intended for by using the settigs control page and then move the lever to activate a particular function. I know it can be used for a separate throttle. Smoke; brakes; gun fire; etc ????
 
Roger, I partially disassembled the PP2 and got it back together with no problems. Nothing spring loaded jumped out at me. There are 7 screws holding the metal plate on the bottom. 4 of them are hidden under little rubber disks which were the hardest part of taking apart as a couple of them were really stuck on there.

Looking at the "guts" there's 2 potentiometers, one for x and one for y. I didn't disassemble them but it looks pretty straight forward to me.
 
I'll open her up and see

Phatoms1

Those saitech sticks look awful delicate. The Saitek Cyborg looks pretty delicate like the rest. They're in England; so any warrenty is useless in the "States." Shipping "old sport" (channeling Gatsby there).

Willy

I'll take a look amd see what's possible. At least I have the tools to take off the base. Now if I were my father's son I could rebuild it and make it better than the original, Unfortunately I never got beyod the regen receiver on a chassis phase. He went from vaccum tubes, through semi conductors to printed circuits in one carreer. And repaired cars, and AC for a sideline.

I'm no so handy.:toilet:


Roger55

Beware the Stork!
 
The Logitech works perfectly in XP - it's been around since XP was the "latest and greatest from MS. I wore out two of them with my old XP flight rig. If you don't want to program anything, you don't have to - that's just something that L'tech offers to help customize things. I just reassign the buttons the way I want in the Sim's control panel.
 
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