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O/t: Look out for this on January 20th, 2012
- Thread starter Autothrottle
- Start date
Frosty
SOH-CM-2025
Technical question:
Around 1:25 there's a B-17 wih a burning No.3 engine (dead and feathered) and a few big chunks out of the right wing. It starts veering to the left (away from the dead engine). I would expect the a/c to turn into the dead engine as there is less thrust on that side. A quick flight in CFS3 confirms this. Any real-life pilots around with an opinion this?
Without wanting to ruin anyone's viewing pleasure, this movie seems all Hollywood (based on this short trailer anyway): the action scenes are so densely packed that everything happens in a blur so mistakes like the one above (if I am correct, that is) look good/impressive but that's all they are: looks. I feel that CGI sometimes is to blame. Literally everything is possible, even if it isn't based on the real world. Other examples are the scenes where a P-51 blasts a Bf-109 and then swooshes only a couple of meters underneath the stricken German (around 2:00) and the strafing of a train. It's the way I fly in CFS3 and I would have been long dead and gone if that was real life. Of course you can't win a war by being too cautious but apparently there's a saying among pilots: "There are bold pilots, old pilots but no bold, old pilots".
If you look at gun cam movies, the pilots seems to have a healthy respect for the other aircraft or terra firma. Yes, there were brushes with death, collisions and accidents etc. but the way this movie seemingly portrays air battles, spells "action movie" to me.
BTW, this is no reflection on the actions of the actual Tuskegee Airmen - it's the way Hollywood portays the action that I am not warming up to.
On the other hand, portraying massive air battles is an impossibility without CGI so perhaps I should just shut it and enjoy the movie
.
EDIT: Aw sorry, couldn't resist after seeing the trailer through (uhm, yes, I didn't do that before writing the above comments ) but did you see that bit at 2:15?? What is that, some sort of a stall turn? I'd say that if you do that in combat with a 109 on your tail (check the distance between them - I don't know how he looses that much speed in such a short time), you'd be dead before realising it... The pilot is an excellent shot, by the way, lol.
Around 1:25 there's a B-17 wih a burning No.3 engine (dead and feathered) and a few big chunks out of the right wing. It starts veering to the left (away from the dead engine). I would expect the a/c to turn into the dead engine as there is less thrust on that side. A quick flight in CFS3 confirms this. Any real-life pilots around with an opinion this?
Without wanting to ruin anyone's viewing pleasure, this movie seems all Hollywood (based on this short trailer anyway): the action scenes are so densely packed that everything happens in a blur so mistakes like the one above (if I am correct, that is) look good/impressive but that's all they are: looks. I feel that CGI sometimes is to blame. Literally everything is possible, even if it isn't based on the real world. Other examples are the scenes where a P-51 blasts a Bf-109 and then swooshes only a couple of meters underneath the stricken German (around 2:00) and the strafing of a train. It's the way I fly in CFS3 and I would have been long dead and gone if that was real life. Of course you can't win a war by being too cautious but apparently there's a saying among pilots: "There are bold pilots, old pilots but no bold, old pilots".
If you look at gun cam movies, the pilots seems to have a healthy respect for the other aircraft or terra firma. Yes, there were brushes with death, collisions and accidents etc. but the way this movie seemingly portrays air battles, spells "action movie" to me.
BTW, this is no reflection on the actions of the actual Tuskegee Airmen - it's the way Hollywood portays the action that I am not warming up to.
On the other hand, portraying massive air battles is an impossibility without CGI so perhaps I should just shut it and enjoy the movie
.EDIT: Aw sorry, couldn't resist after seeing the trailer through (uhm, yes, I didn't do that before writing the above comments ) but did you see that bit at 2:15?? What is that, some sort of a stall turn? I'd say that if you do that in combat with a 109 on your tail (check the distance between them - I don't know how he looses that much speed in such a short time), you'd be dead before realising it... The pilot is an excellent shot, by the way, lol.
Human Drone
Charter Member
Frosty:
As to the B-17 with the dead engine turning the wrong way, yeah, it makes sense if that's all that's wrong with it. Maybe control damage has the ailerons or rudder damaged (didn't remember to look!)
I hope this is released with a family-friendly rating. But yeah, the CGI magic has me thinking "action flick" as well. Maybe I'm just a lousy pilot (there is, after all, a reason for my screen name!) but if I got that close to the AvHistory B-17's in CFS3, I'd have more holes in me than swiss cheese on a machine-gun range!
In general, I feel like it was very much harder to get a "kill" in real life than in CFS3. Even for someone as lousy as I am I can generally jump into QC and drop several planes. IRL I'll bet if you got a few holes in you, you got the heck out of there if you could, and that would lower the kill rate significantly. This movie appears to have planes falling out of the sky like rain. I should check some actual history resources to see how things really were. It's make a good movie for me if it was 100% real, but I doubt it'd do very good at the box office!
Still, as with you, I'm glad to see the Tuskegee airmen acknowledged and honored in this way. I hope an afterword or the credits include pics & medals and good things like that.
Best,
Tom
As to the B-17 with the dead engine turning the wrong way, yeah, it makes sense if that's all that's wrong with it. Maybe control damage has the ailerons or rudder damaged (didn't remember to look!)
I hope this is released with a family-friendly rating. But yeah, the CGI magic has me thinking "action flick" as well. Maybe I'm just a lousy pilot (there is, after all, a reason for my screen name!) but if I got that close to the AvHistory B-17's in CFS3, I'd have more holes in me than swiss cheese on a machine-gun range!
In general, I feel like it was very much harder to get a "kill" in real life than in CFS3. Even for someone as lousy as I am I can generally jump into QC and drop several planes. IRL I'll bet if you got a few holes in you, you got the heck out of there if you could, and that would lower the kill rate significantly. This movie appears to have planes falling out of the sky like rain. I should check some actual history resources to see how things really were. It's make a good movie for me if it was 100% real, but I doubt it'd do very good at the box office!
Still, as with you, I'm glad to see the Tuskegee airmen acknowledged and honored in this way. I hope an afterword or the credits include pics & medals and good things like that.
Best,
Tom
Led Zeppelin
Charter Member
Yes, dogfights don't look plausible at all.
Loss of #3 isn't too much of a controllissue under normal circumstances, but the normal technique is to bank into the good engine compensating for the thrust differential , loss of some propwash induced lift and bringing the aerodynamic center somewhat closer to the center of thrust. As well the damage to the wing can cause a lot of loss of lift and drag.
Cheers: T
Cheers: T
Human Drone
Charter Member
Frosty
SOH-CM-2025
Hadn't thought of that. I just killed the engine and let her drift. Good point!!
Capt. Winters
Charter Member
Hi Guys,
The other reason for banking away to the left is the formation set up. to his right and low he would have another B17 whereas out on his left the wingmen are at a slightly higher altitude, so he may have actually steered the plane away from others in the formation allowing himself to drop down and out of the formation.
regards Rob.
The other reason for banking away to the left is the formation set up. to his right and low he would have another B17 whereas out on his left the wingmen are at a slightly higher altitude, so he may have actually steered the plane away from others in the formation allowing himself to drop down and out of the formation.
regards Rob.
Pat Pattle
SOH-CM-2025
I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah it's going to be very Hollywood, gung-ho, over-the-top and with much hammy acting but it looks great!
Also, anything like this will stimulate interest in the flight sims I would have thought.
Also, anything like this will stimulate interest in the flight sims I would have thought.
lewis11777
Charter Member
Judging from the previews the first one was much better, very realistic without overblown special effects. Also the first one had a lot of A-list actors.