OT: Der Rote Baron in english?

G

GregG

Guest
I just watched "Der Rote Baron" in german. I didn't understand a word of it, although I enjoyed it thoroughly. Is there a DVD version available in english somewhere? Funny thing is I see the lips of the actors, and they're speaking english! Thanks!
 
IIRC it was filmed in English and then overdubbed in German, so there is most probably an English version available.

CJ
 
Why no USA release ..... so far.

... to find out more Click Here.

There is a great review at the start of the thread, really almost a transcript of the movie. Just skip the .7-part write-up if you do not what it to spoil your interest.

Enjoy,
WF2
 
I'd like to see this one as well, but like all the rest.....i wish it were more historiclly acurate,but such is the plight of a WW1 nut who will accept anything of wood and fabric.

Hawker- SE5a piloted by Grizzly Adams :costumes:

-Rooster
 
GregG said:
I just watched "Der Rote Baron" in german. I didn't understand a word of it, although I enjoyed it thoroughly. Is there a DVD version available in english somewhere? Funny thing is I see the lips of the actors, and they're speaking english! Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't think it is funny, I think it is horrible. I won't see it because it bothers me so much. There is 90ish million native german speakers. I believe "The Parfume" also was filmed in english, by a german director (Tykwer) and at least some german actors. I like the Red Baron actor very much after having seen "Kammerflimmern" (or "Off Beat" as the english version is called) and there are loads of other great german films. But this is just anoying and embarrasing. I had hoped that the larger european countries could stand up a little better for their own culture.

The scandinavian countries are other even more terrible examples where the english language is given too much space. Knowing it is one (very good, useful & funny) thing, but shooting movies with native actors and directors in english with the arrogant belief that the anglo-saxon world would care and salute them with rejoice is an example of combined smugness and lack of self-esteem. Not to mention at uni, I can't remember last time I read something in swedish there.
 
Personally, I want my films to be in the native tongue. Like Das Boot.... excellent. I can manage subtitles. If I had the dvd for this movie I would opt for the german language with english subtitle. So this movie is in english and yet it is not available to the largest english market (USA). So what was the point I wonder. Why do they always take a good idea and mess it up?
 
I agree... I think Der Rote Baron should have been filmed in the native language, in Old German with proper dialect and accents as well.

Then translated via a menu option. 'Stalingrad' was done that way to perfection, and it made the movie 100% better.

OvS
 
I read somewhere that American people do not accept it when the lips are moving differently from what they hear and therefore movies for the international market (at least in Germany) are mostly filmed in English.

Oh and my review of the movie is here (warning:spoiler)
 
I agree. It should have been done in German. Since I know German, it would not have been an issue for me, though in certain movies, even native speakers sometimes have to look at subtitles given various dialects and specific language used that's a bit more unfamiliar (nautical terms in "Das Boot, for instance).

Americans don't like dubbed movies, to be sure.
 
I wish I could locate a German version to watch here in the US.
 
Rooster89 said:
I'd like to see this one as well, but like all the rest.....i wish it were more historiclly acurate,but such is the plight of a WW1 nut who will accept anything of wood and fabric.

Hawker- SE5a piloted by Grizzly Adams :costumes:

-Rooster
Click to expand...

I seem to remember from Udet's autobiography that at one point (or several) he was approached about the possibility of making a film on Richthofen and Udet felt (understandably) that Richthofen was basically a giant among men and that Richthofen was too "big" for any film to be able to do the man justice. My personal opinion is it could be done but it would likely do lousy at the box office. Richthofen certainly lead a life which in many respects was interesting and exciting but he wasn't what anyone would call a "rebel" or a "bad-boy" - which is more of a comment on what people seem to like in their protagonists when they go to the movies. In other words, Richthofen portrayed historically accurately would be a Prussian aristocrat who his subordinates found very inspiring and charismatic, and a natural leader. Very loosely, an aristocrat who rode horses and hunted as a boy, an athlete in school, joined the cavalry, transferred to the air corps, became an observer, a pilot, an ace, a hero, was wounded, and ultimately was killed. Not much of a story arc. I could imagine a really interesting drama of sorts following his life in a multi-part series but even then, there just isn't a lot of historical story to work with to keep it dramatic. A lot of blanks would have to be filled in. Oh yeah, it would be better in German, Hoch-Deutsch, preferably. All that said, the life of Udet, there's a whole bunch of movies wrapped up in his story.

-sab
 
Hey Sab. I've also read Udets autobiography. And I agree that Richthofens life portrayed realistically wouldnt make for a blockbuster movie. However it would be nice to see something more realistic. But theres no way major producers would do something without making it over dramatic so the average joe, not interested in this sort of thing might pop in and see it.....and thats why I read:costumes:

:ernae:
-Rooster
 
Rooster89 said:
Hey Sab. I've also read Udets autobiography. And I agree that Richthofens life portrayed realistically wouldnt make for a blockbuster movie. However it would be nice to see something more realistic. But theres no way major producers would do something without making it over dramatic so the average joe, not interested in this sort of thing might pop in and see it.....and thats why I read:costumes:

:ernae:
-Rooster
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too. There's a story a friend of mine told me once supposedly about Udet but I've never seen it confirmed anywhere.

The story, as I was told, was Udet (or somebody), shortly after a dogfight came across an Allied aircraft beating it for the lines so chase was given. The Allied pilot thought to change out the drum to the Lewis on the top wing but the drum wouldn't budge. He starts banging on the drum. The Allied pilot, now standing up in the cockpit, somehow loses control of the aircraft as the German aircraft was getting into range and the Allied plane literally inverts and continues flying on. The Allied pilot, holding on for dear life, is now dangling in the wind "above" his inverted aircraft. The German pilot sees all this and doesn't fire, watching to see what would happen. The Allied pilot eventually was able to swing himself back into the cockpit and right his aircraft. At that point the German pilot pulls in next to him, waves, and shakes his head - not this time - and then wings over for home - the lines were getting close. Later, the German pilot was reported to have said he, "just didn't have the heart to shoot him down."

It's a great little scene - one of those things that if it didn't happen, it should have happened.

Anyone ever hear of anything like this?

-sab
 
Interesting story, something similar what was told by "The Great Waldo Pepper"...probably the idea came from this real life exemple...

For me, these stories make the air combats of the Great War so mysteriously magical...In a way, it was the cruelest of air battles - flying wood and canvas, no parachute...if the papermaché breaks or catches fire, you're tortured to death, but still, it was like knights fighting..It was an age, when people still had honour, unlike what the humanity has become by now, faceless, selfish...OK, that's a different story. I wish we could bring back those morals..
 
GregG said:
Interesting story, something similar what was told by "The Great Waldo Pepper"...probably the idea came from this real life exemple...

For me, these stories make the air combats of the Great War so mysteriously magical...In a way, it was the cruelest of air battles - flying wood and canvas, no parachute...if the papermaché breaks or catches fire, you're tortured to death, but still, it was like knights fighting..It was an age, when people still had honour, unlike what the humanity has become by now, faceless, selfish...OK, that's a different story. I wish we could bring back those morals..
Click to expand...

I think my favorite part of Waldo Pepper is when the Udet character is describing the dogfight. It's a wonderful piece of acting. Bo Brundin got it right with the tone of his voice, the cadence, and I think the director was very savvy to have the movie's main character, Redford, basically just listen to the account. Whenever it's on I'll tune in just for that scene. It's a good one.

I see the whole Knights of the Sky thing a different way but I'm well removed from that period, as we all are, by almost a century. Europe was different from today certainly in the sense, or idea, of Honorable Combat and I think the whole honorable combat thing - this was really just an outgrowth or a romantic construct stemming from such literature as Ivanhoe, King Arthur, ect. - much read during the period and after, and Europe was a lot less removed from duelling than we are today. Noble, honorable men fought duels and they were dueling in the sky - it seemed - but based upon what I've read, I have a feeling the fighter pilots of the era were pragmatists - they were there to control airspace with the mission of driving off, shooting down, and killing the enemy. I am sure there was a duel aspect for some pilots - Richthofen's account of his fight with Hawker, for example, but Richthofen was certainly of the upper caste where the idea of the duel was culturally very familiar and a totally acceptable rationale for what amounted to simply killing the enemy. Richthofen was hunting, pure and simple - he commemorated his kills with trophies. Pilots of a later era would paint their trophies on their aircraft. As for the time being an age of honor, read Keegan's "The First World War." No doubt, some saw soldiering as a noble pursuit but clearly, it was rarely that, and I think it was the rare exception for the fighter pilots of the time to find themselves in honorable combat - most of the time the combat was very likely a kill the enemy and live another day kind of affair. There are certainly accounts of pilots saluting their enemies, letting others go when they had the opportunity for an easy kill, and of course, burials with full military honors of enemy pilots. Still, aerial combat started with airman taking potshots at each other with pistols and rifles - they wanted to kill the enemy - and I doubt very seriously these first combatants were making sure the other side also had their rifle or pistol ready for the duel. I certainly like the idea of the honorable duel in the sky and I admit there were likely some who perhaps momentarily felt that way as they turned to get the angle, but in my opinion the vast majority of the combatants were thinking kill and survive, as opposed to may the best man prevail. Just my opinion.

-sab
 
GregG said:
Interesting story, something similar what was told by "The Great Waldo Pepper"...probably the idea came from this real life exemple...

For me, these stories make the air combats of the Great War so mysteriously magical...In a way, it was the cruelest of air battles - flying wood and canvas, no parachute...if the papermaché breaks or catches fire, you're tortured to death, but still, it was like knights fighting..It was an age, when people still had honour, unlike what the humanity has become by now, faceless, selfish...OK, that's a different story. I wish we could bring back those morals..
Click to expand...


Thats why I love this forum GregG. those morals still apply here.....wish they were elswhere too.

-Rooster
 
Yes, Saburo, you're most probably right. However, I still think that morals today are totally different in a very bad way. And we - I - need those "legends" to remind me that life can be lived in a better, and more human way.
 
GregG said:
Yes, Saburo, you're most probably right. However, I still think that morals today are totally different in a very bad way. And we - I - need those "legends" to remind me that life can be lived in a better, and more human way.
Click to expand...

I'm right with you as far as striving for an ideal is concerned but, for real, I'd say the morals of today are little different in the grand scheme. Perspective is different but I think then, as now, there were absolutely bad and immoral people in that period and as unfair as it is to judge people of the past by contemporary standards, it is just as unfair to judge the people of today by what we wish or believe standards once were, nevermind the evidence to the contrary that the standard we imagine once was, was actually a good deal lower in reality. Sorry to be so contrary but, for instance, gas warfare was not so immoral that it wasn't used in the period. Artillery was sometimes sighted in on friendly trenches to get soldiers moving forwards. Uboats sinking passenger liners. Zeppelins bombing London. It's sad but it is the reality. For myself, I've flown a good deal in aircraft open to the wind and I can easily imagine combat pilots sometimes being overwhelmed by the beauty of it all - at least until they had to focus on the job at hand.

-sab
 
War, what is it good for?

... the reality shows in the their faces, how quick these very youthful young men turned very old in such a short amount of time.

Sad,
WF2

Still would love to see "Der Rote Baron" released in the USA, just on DVD (with English subtitles).
 
DVD's in foreign language

Recently got the British series "The Avengers" as a boxed DVD-set. I wanted the good period with Diana Rigg; and I didn't want the covers in french (would have been the right regional code). In German they weren't available; and the British are another regional code.
A friend gave me the advice to google my DVD player name, plus the word "codefree". So I found info, how to change code number (child simple !); and could watch the series (don't forget to re-change after).
So, you may get German DVD's of "Das Boot" or anything, and watch it.
You may try it with a cheap Ebay buy first.
Cheers; Olham
 
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