P3 Rear Gunner Questions

H

Hellshade

Guest
I've been enjoying P3 since I got home today and I posted a first impressions write up just a little while ago. I've since gotten back tothe action (which is phenominal) and have started trying different things. The one thing I am having a problem with is trying out the rear gunner position. I created a bomber pilot but can't seem to find a way to jump into the back seat and start gunninng down stuff. F8 is supposed to switch to rear gunner mode but it doesn't seem to work. So...two quick questions:
1. How do I turn on AI piloting in my plane so I dont crash? and
2. How do I jump into the rear seat to cover the tail of my bomber?

I'll post more impressions tomorrow night, but for now just know that the high rez planes and scenery are incredible and the enemy AI definately doesn't shoot only for effect. I was on the tail of a Nieuport 11 and the little bugger apparently cut his engine, pulled up and to the right a bit and I flew right past him. Sure enough, in the brief moment I was in his view before I pulled hard left, he put a couple of rounds in me. He gave only two short bursts while I was in target range, hit his mark and stopped firing the moment I was no longer in his sights. Simply amazing!

Hellshade
 
Hellshade, it might be a trakir issue. From the FAQ:

5) Auto Pilot (Ctrl+Shift+A) is sometimes unreliable – we recommend that you keep it realistic and not engage Auto Pilot in WW1 crates. In some 2-seaters where you want to take over observer position, autopilot MAY help if it works OK. To have a good chance, enable autopilot after stabilising craft level and full power, and then use Ctrl+Shift+A. Remember to disable it before switching back to the pilot seat.

Remember to fly a mission as gunner/observer there is likely no need to engage the “autopilot”... simply jump to the gunner seat (recommend using Shift+F8 key to avoid TrackIR shortcut defaults) without pressing autopilot keys! F6 returns.


Sounds like loads of fun.

PF
 
Well spotted Prairie_flcn thanks, yep shift+F8 if you have TIR (it uses F8 by default).

If you have problems with craft not flying great then try autopilot as described first.

We look forward to your reports Hellshade :)
 
Thank you.

Perfect. Works like a champ guys. Thanks a ton!

Hellshade
 
Hellshade,

You made 2 mistakes while on that Newport's rear end.

First------ you failed to notice that Tom Cruse was the pilot, with Goose stuff down in the fuse.

Second----- you didn't see/heard him tell Goose he was going to apply the brakes,pull up and let you fly right on by.

Other then that your SA is good, you notice type of plane and how long to burst he put in your butt was.
 
From reading this thread, I gather that with 2-seaters, the options are:
  • Flying normally as the pilot, with a robot gunner who is fairly good at his job, or
  • Being the gunner yourself, while at best being an easy straight-and-level target, and at worst falling out of the sky with nobody at the controls.
From my POV, the 2nd option smacks too much of the disastrous debut of the Brisfit under Leefe Robinson's command, and also of the Bolton-Paul Defiant. Neither of these examples inspires confidence. So I figure when I fly 2-seaters, I'll stay in the driver's seat :).

I'm looking forward to flying the good ol' Fighter, Experimental #2. I've always wanted to see how well having a pivoting gun could make up for a non-stellar turn rate :).
 
Bullethead said:
From reading this thread, I gather that with 2-seaters, the options are:
  • Flying normally as the pilot, with a robot gunner who is fairly good at his job, or
  • Being the gunner yourself, while at best being an easy straight-and-level target, and at worst falling out of the sky with nobody at the controls.
From my POV, the 2nd option smacks too much of the disastrous debut of the Brisfit under Leefe Robinson's command, and also of the Bolton-Paul Defiant. Neither of these examples inspires confidence. So I figure when I fly 2-seaters, I'll stay in the driver's seat :).

I'm looking forward to flying the good ol' Fighter, Experimental #2. I've always wanted to see how well having a pivoting gun could make up for a non-stellar turn rate :).
Click to expand...

BH,

From my experience, it's a ton of fun in the back-seat. But I have to say, it must have been hell to be a back-seater. I have poured more lead into the sky and hit nothing, than I could ever imagined. I recorded 2 kills as a gunner, which was very satisfying. It just takes a LOT of practice.

OvS
 
ovs said:
From my experience, it's a ton of fun in the back-seat. .... I recorded 2 kills as a gunner, which was very satisfying. It just takes a LOT of practice.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it's fun in OFF. I've got many hours as a gunner in MMO flightsims, after all. I'm just concerned that when I do this in OFF, my plane won't have an AI pilot at the controls. When I'm a fighter pilot, I dream of coming across 2-seaters that just sit there, so I can easily stay under their tails and blast them at leisure. I don't want to be on the receiving end of that.
 
Hopefully this is in keeping with the thread topic.

I've had a keen interest in getting into the back seat for some time, but none of the sims I've played have allowed it. I've also noticed that rear-gunners in other WWI sims tend to be very nasty on AI wingmates (and me!), with unrealistic yaw and pitch angle rates of their guns (perhaps to make up for other AI targeting deficiencies...).

So I started to read up on it and came across at least two good accounts about rear-gunners. One involved Hurricane pilots during the Battle of France meeting Me110's for the first time. They said the rear-gunner was incapable of effectively aiming his gun because of the high g-forces during combat maneuvers pinning his body and arms.

The other was an account by Cpt. Swede Vejtasa who successfully fought off (and shot down!) 3 Zero's all while flying a Douglas SBD dive bomber (They quickly put him on F4F duty after getting home safely)!!! ANYWAYS, his rear-gunner was a helpless bystander as Swede had to keep that SBD in violent motion to keep from being an easy slow moving target for the Zero's.

So, my question is, where is the game balance? Granted, WWI two-seaters did not have the speed to generate a lot of g's, but their dogfight manuevering (such as it was) must still have impacted their rear-gunners effectiveness.

Wouldn't it be great if g-forces acting on defensive gunners were factored into a game engine?



Propeller-Crossesw-flags7small.jpg
 
Venator said:
Wouldn't it be great if g-forces acting on defensive gunners were factored into a game engine?
Click to expand...

From what I can tell, in WW1 this really wasn't an issue. Neither was the effect of the slipstream on the gun's barrel. There just weren't enough Gs and airspeed to be that much of a problem. That's why manually held guns remained standard equipment throughout the war. It wasn't until planes got faster and stronger between the wars that folks realized gunners couldn't manhandle guns around. This is what led to the development of turrets.
 
Do others find this?

I wanted to try out the rear seat as well. I tried it in the Strutter, the Bristol Fighter, and the RAF R.E.8. I started off in the air and then jumped to the back seat and waited for them to get on my tail, which they did, and slowly chewed me to pieces sitting either right under me or right on my rudder. Funny how they didn't mind hitting that, but I sure didn't want to. Plus, it was darned hard to hit them even when clear of my empanage.

Then I got in the R.E.8 and instead of jumping right into the back, I began evasive maneuvers while closing (mostly side-slipping a bit). Then I jumped to the back (mind you, I've never gotten near any keys for autopilot this whole time), and my pilot kept maneuvering. In fact, he made it pretty darn hard for me to shoot at the Alb because he was turning so tightly. I was leading like crazy, and I hit the Alb a number of times, but mostly just wasted all my ammo. Then I jumped back into the front and stalked the wounded Alb until I downed him.

SO, I've done some searching but can't find any info on this. I'll do some more experimenting, but it seems that if I jump in the back without piloting the plane first, the AI pilot just flies it pretty much straight and level, and if I jump back after piloting a bit, the AI pilot flies pretty much as if in a dogfight. Is this what others find? This seems like fun to me. Fly a little and then practice gunnery from the back while the AI flies a bit, then jump back and finish the fellow off!

One other question (off topic). Is there someplace in the game that lists the stall speeds of these craft? The MOW manual doesn't. This info is helpful when landing, especially on the floaters like the Tripe.
 
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