parachutes

R

RW02

Guest
hello,
a few minutes ago I was shot down by flak. I escaped from my aircraft, which couldn't be saved anymore. It just went down. Too bad the pilot opened his 'parachute' some hunderds of feet above the ground and I landed safely. Only there wasn't a parachute to be seen.
I know pilots didn't like parachutes at the beginning of the war and they still had to be develloped for safe use. But pilots sometimes just jumped out of their damaged or burning craft without.
So I searched some more and every website I visited said parachutes were already used during WW1. A book I've got (Flight, a century of aviation by R.G. Grant) also says parachutes were used, but only at the end of the war by the Germans.
Does anyone know what is correct and if parachutes were used, from what time on and by whom?
And what happened to the parachute textures in OFF?
ciao,
RW02
 
My understanding is that Observation Baloon crew had access to wired parachutes right from the get go, but it was only towards the very end of the war that the German Air Service (keen to save as many experienced pilots as possible as their man power decreased drastically) started to hand them out to combat pilots.

I think, and I could be wrong, the RFC/RAF never did so during the first world war, but I'm ready to be corrected on that.
 
Observers in balloons would use them to escape cooking in flaming hydrogen gas. What must be remembered too about WWI, is that aero-engines were not that powerful until the last couple of years. So weight was a big factor in the use of parachutes. Even though the German Air Service did use them towards the end, there still issues with unreliability. But there were many lives saved by the use of them.

During WWII, the Japanese Army and Navy pilots would not only opt not to use their parachutes, but they would do things like remove the two way radios to save weight, and remove oxygen bottles. The Japanese planes were already light to begin with due to the ommission of armor for the vitals of the planes, but also they opted not to use self sealing fuel tanks, which is why the combat footage of them shows lots of flames most of the time when they were hit. So in a lot of ways, Japanese planes in WWII were modernized versions of WWI planes.
 
If my info is correct, the commanders of the RFC frowned on the idea of using parachutes as they felt it would encourage a pilot to bail out rather than continue fighting (except for balloon crew as BorderReiver pointed out).
 
nezza said:
If my info is correct, the commanders of the RFC frowned on the idea of using parachutes as they felt it would encourage a pilot to bail out rather than continue fighting (except for balloon crew as BorderReiver pointed out).
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I think if I remember correctly that this was more of a tale, and not an real issue.
 
Yes, quite true olde bean....

..........You see, it just wasn't proper that an Englishman may want to abandon his aircraft, even with a few holes in it, so they encouraged the ideal that it's a fight to the last, and at least save the plane will you?

The German brass, ( and the observation crews) looked at it a little differently.

The design of the basic parachute has held up quite well, and they were indeed used with a degree confidence.

One last tidbit. If you bail out over Enemy lines, you're as good as captured, and thus ends your pilots career. Even a crash landing that you survive, I always see if it is practical that a wingman could pick me up, and how close to the Front line, ( usually< 1 mile) , if the bloke would survive:d.

Cheers,

british_eh

PS Possibly you can see a parachute with CFS3 & addons.
 
Is this the case in P3? Will the pilot still have an invisible parachute, or was that fixed? In the correct time frame it should be there for the German pilots, should see the chute too.

Just curious,
WF2
 
The parachute story as I heard it, was there just wasn't any room for it in the cockpit for it. The German pilots used one late in the war, but the only place I can think of to stuff it, was under the seat
 
gimpyguy said:
The parachute story as I heard it, was there just wasn't any room for it in the cockpit for it. The German pilots used one late in the war, but the only place I can think of to stuff it, was under the seat
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Yes they did make room on some planes. Some were even mounted outside the plane in a canvas bag. Mostly done on two seaters.

The first reported use of a parachute, was by Ltn.
exlinkon.gif
Helmut Steinbrecher, a pilot in Jasta 46 on 27 June 1918 when he jumped out of his blazing Alb.D.V. Shortly after 0900 hrs a Kette of Jasta 46 engaged 12 aircraft of Sopwith and S.E.5a machines NW of Amiens at 4500 meters about 2 km behind the british lines. He was engaged by a British plane which had holed his gas tank, Ltn. Steinbrecher dove to escape and leveled out around 2500 meters, the flames enveloped to fuselage and also came into the cockpit, without hesitation, he unfastened his seat belts and put the plane into a dive and was ejected from the plane and somersaulted as the parachute opened he was suspended head down, making some move freed his feet and he descended feet down in the normal manner.
He landed back in the German lines without injury and return to Jasta 46.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
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Cheers,
WF2
 
Sounds as it is not allowed to use them, only at the very end of the war by german pilots. So, does anyone have an idea how to abandon your aircraft without your parachute opening? Or can the parachute be corrected such that it doesn't break you?
I think there is more chance on survival if one can just jump out of his aircraft a few meters above the ground then just waiting till it crashes...
 
RW02 said:
I think there is more chance on survival if one can just jump out of his aircraft a few meters above the ground then just waiting till it crashes...
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I don't think real pilots ever jumped out of their plane a few metres above the ground. Never heard of it anyway.

Pilots only jumped to escape flames, preferring to die from the fall. Otherwise they would be safer staying strapped into their seat and hoping the crumple of the plane would cushion the impact, which it often did.

To match this I just play OFF using the assumption that there is no option for bailing out and surviving the fall, like in real life. Ride out every flight to the end.

The problem with this is is that the CSF3 game-engine will usually kill your pilot for even the smallest crash, which is not realistic. My solution has been to set OFF workshop to 'pilot never dies'. If the crash was a small survivable one then I just take the hospital time and continue. If I have a big crash then I then kill the pilot off manually (end the career).
 
One must remember, the observer in the balloon, had the luxury of space to keep his parachute in. He would throw the loose canopy over the side, then he would jump. And the majority of times, prior to single shot being fired, afterall he might miss the balloon and hit me. That count to ten and pull the ripcord, might be proper form in WWII, but in a balloon in WWI, you'd never reach 4

All the pictures I've seen of a Parachute, intended for use in aircraft, was of a package 3 Foot square, approx 2 Foot Deep, strapped to the bottom of the aircraft. Theoretically, the pilot would wear some kind of harness, which would tether him to the canopy, which was carried beneath the aircraft. I would imagine, his falling bulk, tore the stiches on the bottom of the canopy storage bag. That's good for the Factory Demo, did it work when the plane was engulfed in flame, and earthbound at 120mph?
Your guess is as good as mine.

Every Flying Officer, carried a side arm, as a part of his uniform.
He was not expected to fight the whole German Army with his revolver.
But if you were piloting an aircraft, and the aircraft was going down in flames, there were 3 possibilities:
You could jump to your death
You could go down with your aircraft, burning all the way, to certain death when you crash
You take out your service revolver, and blow your own Brains Out

That jumping at the Last Instant doesn't work
It ain't the fall, it's the sudden stop, that kills you
If the aircraft is Headed towards the earth at 150mph, you are going 150mph :kilroy:
 
77Scout said:
The problem with this is is that the CSF3 game-engine will usually kill your pilot for even the smallest crash, which is not realistic. My solution has been to set OFF workshop to 'pilot never dies'. If the crash was a small survivable one then I just take the hospital time and continue. If I have a big crash then I then kill the pilot off manually (end the career).
Click to expand...

When 77Scout said the smallest crash, that includes snapping your tail skid. Major Crash is the honor system, or NOT :costumes:
 
womenfly2 said:
Is this the case in P3? Will the pilot still have an invisible parachute, or was that fixed? In the correct time frame it should be there for the German pilots, should see the chute too.

Just curious,
WF2
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Nope due to keeping our sanity we have mostly removed CFS parachuters. It is good to see jumpers but not when you then see them with a invisible parachute ;) Maybe P4 (did I say that aaaaagh) we can do something more special.
 
They're working on P4 already ! Now that's proactive planning :) WooHoo :jump:
 
Holy :censored:! Two weeks! Im running out of time to save up for my new rig!:costumes: "Hurry look under couch cusions for loose change!"
 
Up through World War II, you sat on your parachute. If you've ever sat down in a fighter plane, you'll note how low you sit in it. That's because you don't have a parachute under you. Even if you wanted to dump the chute to save weight, you had to have something to sit on.

I do not know of Japanese removing their O2 bottles during World War II. If you fly very high, you'll have to have it, whether you want it or not, regardless of how much you'd like to save the weight. And U.S. pilots in World War II were taught the location of the O2 bottles in Japanese planes, and told to try to shoot them. Boyington intentionally tried to hit the fuel tank AND the O2 bottles. He once said "Hit them hard from high and behind, and they burn like celluloid."
 
Here's a British document showing the German "Heinecke" system. And yes, it is true that British brass hats refused to allow the use of parachutes because they thought that jumping out of an aeroplane showed a lack of moral fibre. Suggested readings would include Arthur Gould Lee's 'No Parachute'.
Cheers,
shredward
 
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