Switchblade408
Members +
Is there a way to contact Tim "Piglet" Conrad about getting permissions to make a modification of his PT-19 Cornell to a PT-23? I was thinking about making the mod in my spare time (once I get some, that is).
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The Staff of SOH
Piglet model modification
- Thread starter Switchblade408
- Start date
tgycgijoes
Members +
Pt19-pt223
If you HAVE one of his latest developed aircraft doesn't he have an email in the README? I say his latest developed because I have found out the hard way that designers change emails or close their websites for one reason or another. I have had very good luck get permissions with only one or two exceptions which I have honored.
If you HAVE one of his latest developed aircraft doesn't he have an email in the README? I say his latest developed because I have found out the hard way that designers change emails or close their websites for one reason or another. I have had very good luck get permissions with only one or two exceptions which I have honored.
This has been a matter of great discussion ever since Piglet left us many years ago. He was briefly available immediately after leaving, but since then he has been unreachable and hasn't done anything "recent" in over 5 years or more. So the answer is no, he can't be reached and it seems that he doesn't really want to be reached as many have tried and all have failed.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Unreachable
That is too bad. We have had more than one aircraft or scenery designer who gave us so much quality freeware just quit and walk away without any way to contact them. I don't know if this is still an active email address, but you could at least try it:
[FONT="]piglet-ap@dslextreme.com
[/FONT]
That is too bad. We have had more than one aircraft or scenery designer who gave us so much quality freeware just quit and walk away without any way to contact them. I don't know if this is still an active email address, but you could at least try it:
[FONT="]piglet-ap@dslextreme.com
[/FONT]
Just Go Away
Bill Lyons went away. But he did not go away mad. Tim Conrad went away mad. If you are burned out then just go away. Spare us the drama and the soap opera! Chickens have lips, bears live in the woods, and America's Got Talent. Flight Simulator doesn't have any of that. It's just has lots of hard work - if you do it right.
Chuck B
Napamule
Bill Lyons went away. But he did not go away mad. Tim Conrad went away mad. If you are burned out then just go away. Spare us the drama and the soap opera! Chickens have lips, bears live in the woods, and America's Got Talent. Flight Simulator doesn't have any of that. It's just has lots of hard work - if you do it right.
Chuck B
Napamule
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
First I've heard of this...
But I've seen many instances where the community just doesn't appreciate the free services.....then the hobbyist fun goes away.....
delta_lima
Charter Member 2015
Speaking of drama.
“Hard work”. “If you do it right?” What the hell does that even mean, in the context of Tim’s superlative and voluminous body of work? By what stretch of the imagination were his contributions either not hard work - or done right?
Get back to us when you’ve launched dozens of gorgeous scratch-built FS creations and offered them for free and then we’ll talk about what are the acceptable terms under which one can leave the hobby. Not my business, right? My point exactly.
As someone who’s enjoyed literally hundreds of hours flying his creations, I choose to be grateful for what he did for us, and not entitle myself to judgement on either the reasons for his exit or the manner.
DL
DL, I so agree. The above post is disrespectful, uncalled for, unwarranted & rude! 
Tim, Bill & many others have given us hundreds of downloads & thousands of hours of fun, often without thanks!!
They have their reasons for leaving this hobby, & it is most certainly not our position to judge!!
It is very insulting to their legacy to knock whatever reason they had for moving on & leaving sim industry.
Their FREE creations are still being downloaded & 'flown', & in Bill's case, 'driven' around our sim world, with much enjoyment, by thousands of us, & by denigrating those developers is actually quite insulting!
An apology to the members of this forum could be appropriate!
Tim, Bill & many others have given us hundreds of downloads & thousands of hours of fun, often without thanks!!
They have their reasons for leaving this hobby, & it is most certainly not our position to judge!!
It is very insulting to their legacy to knock whatever reason they had for moving on & leaving sim industry.
Their FREE creations are still being downloaded & 'flown', & in Bill's case, 'driven' around our sim world, with much enjoyment, by thousands of us, & by denigrating those developers is actually quite insulting!
An apology to the members of this forum could be appropriate!
Jafo
SOH-CM-2024
My sentiments entirely!DL, I so agree. The above post is disrespectful, uncalled for, unwarranted & rude!
Tim, Bill & many others have given us hundreds of downloads & thousands of hours of fun, often without thanks!!
They have their reasons for leaving this hobby, & it is most certainly not our position to judge!!
It is very insulting to their legacy to knock whatever reason they had for moving on & leaving sim industry.
Their FREE creations are still being downloaded & 'flown', & in Bill's case, 'driven' around our sim world, with much enjoyment, by thousands of us, & by denigrating those developers is actually quite insulting!
An apology to the members of this forum could be appropriate!
Last time I 'spoke' to Tim [well...email anyway] it was for consent to extend one of his paintkits into 4096 resolution .... to which he graciously consented.
Unfortunately more recent and simmilar communications have been unanswered...so there are SEVERAL other high-res kits I cannot release.
They all took a sh**-load of work to create .... as anyone who has done one will attest, but as Ned Kelly said "such is life".
DennyA
SOH-CM-2023
Tim put hundreds of hours into creating a series of awesome and rare planes and shared those without asking for a cent in return.
He owes the community nothing. The community owes him.
It's sad that online drama resulted in his exit. He was an enthusiast like us, he loved rare planes, and he brought thousands of hours of enjoyment to thousands of sim fans. He's very much missed. But he doesn't owe any of you anything, and he can exit the community any way he sees fit. The sense of entitlement sim fans often have is exactly what drives guys like Tim and Mike Stone to say "F it, I'm done."
As far as his planes go, Tim always supported add-ons, paints, updates, etc. and I don't think there's any issue or possessiveness that would come up if anyone updated his planes for P3D or any other reason. So if you have a tweak, by all mean, distribute it.
And Jafo, there are no legalities preventing you from releasing your paintkits, and you've made your best effort to secure permission. I totally get respecting original authors and not putting out unauthorized compilations, add-ons, etc. like., oh, about half the files on Simviation. But in this case, you're just talking textures for an existing plane, you're crediting the original author, and when he WAS involved in the community, he wholeheartedly supported enhancing his works. So I can't see any reason to keep them to yourself.
He owes the community nothing. The community owes him.
It's sad that online drama resulted in his exit. He was an enthusiast like us, he loved rare planes, and he brought thousands of hours of enjoyment to thousands of sim fans. He's very much missed. But he doesn't owe any of you anything, and he can exit the community any way he sees fit. The sense of entitlement sim fans often have is exactly what drives guys like Tim and Mike Stone to say "F it, I'm done."
As far as his planes go, Tim always supported add-ons, paints, updates, etc. and I don't think there's any issue or possessiveness that would come up if anyone updated his planes for P3D or any other reason. So if you have a tweak, by all mean, distribute it.
And Jafo, there are no legalities preventing you from releasing your paintkits, and you've made your best effort to secure permission. I totally get respecting original authors and not putting out unauthorized compilations, add-ons, etc. like., oh, about half the files on Simviation. But in this case, you're just talking textures for an existing plane, you're crediting the original author, and when he WAS involved in the community, he wholeheartedly supported enhancing his works. So I can't see any reason to keep them to yourself.
wombat666
Administrator
You should take your own 'advice'.......
Considering the time you've been around SOH we expect better Chucky.
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Switchblade - back on topic here: There is no reason you cannot do this on a legal basis. The reason are not simple but here is the answer which would suffice. Copyright is vested in the owner unless by legal agreement and publication of that agreement the rights are transferred to another person or entity, who then legally has the rights and obligations that go with such ownership. However there is a little no issue of what is called ' ábandonment', that is if the owner of the copyright clearly exercises no rights or enforces any such rights, is not contactable via post, telephone or agent and basically walks away from that product, then it is considered to have been abandoned. That means you can make some changes without infringing copyright or offending any person.
Equally if the publisher clearly makes plain when they make available the product or publish advice to that effect as well; that the product is for public use and no compensation is sought or required, that is it is provided gratis or free, then that intent still holds as well, if you take up an abandoned product you cannot charge for it either, which is why that does not happen either. It is called providence and precedence.
As for what happened to who or why, well all I know is this, people quit pursuits for various reasons. Some people suffer illness, some get old and some actually die, unless they are in very close contact with any particular community most will not know and a lot of the times if it is sudden or serious that will mean a sudden cessation. Speculation about why is a waste of time.
Mr Conrad is not alone, there a few other exceptional designers and builders who have also basically vanished from the scene. Enjoy what they did and just get on with it. The legal situation is answered above if you want to do some stuff.
Equally if the publisher clearly makes plain when they make available the product or publish advice to that effect as well; that the product is for public use and no compensation is sought or required, that is it is provided gratis or free, then that intent still holds as well, if you take up an abandoned product you cannot charge for it either, which is why that does not happen either. It is called providence and precedence.
As for what happened to who or why, well all I know is this, people quit pursuits for various reasons. Some people suffer illness, some get old and some actually die, unless they are in very close contact with any particular community most will not know and a lot of the times if it is sudden or serious that will mean a sudden cessation. Speculation about why is a waste of time.
Mr Conrad is not alone, there a few other exceptional designers and builders who have also basically vanished from the scene. Enjoy what they did and just get on with it. The legal situation is answered above if you want to do some stuff.
Jafo
SOH-CM-2024
"then it is considered to have been abandoned."
By whom?
I've lived with copyright for 46 years...and if some peanut brain came along and altered and distributed MY WORK simply because he failed to contact me and claimed some bull**** like 'abandonment' I'd hunt him down and give him a knee-capping.
Sorry, mate....that simply does NOT wash.
By whom?
I've lived with copyright for 46 years...and if some peanut brain came along and altered and distributed MY WORK simply because he failed to contact me and claimed some bull**** like 'abandonment' I'd hunt him down and give him a knee-capping.
Sorry, mate....that simply does NOT wash.
Here we go again. Changing someone else work when permission has not been obtained. Just because a developer can't be reached doesn't mean a creation has been abandoned. This topic seems to stir up trouble.
The rule is don't mess with someone else's work without permission. PERIOD.
If this thread continues on the downward spiral, I will close it.
The rule is don't mess with someone else's work without permission. PERIOD.
If this thread continues on the downward spiral, I will close it.
Jafo, there's no reason to hold back Hi-Res paint kits. I could see if you or anyone else had somehow re-engineered one of Tim's creations and made it something it wasn't meant to be, but when you take that away and look at repaints. . .what if no one felt they could share repaints of all Tim's creations for the same reason? There have been plenty done since Tim left and I seriously doubt he would take offense to any of them, rather he would be glad to see that his work is still being enjoyed. Paint kits are no different. . .they are the stuff good repaints are made of and should be shared if the person who did them wants to share them. . .and I haven't found many (if any at all) who, when asked, didn't freely share their work.
Don't make this bigger than it actually is. . .Tim is gone, he isn't coming back, he has a new life and we all hope he is happy in whatever that entails. He is unreachable, no one has had any success and probably never will. If you don't want to release your paint kits that's your prerogative, but to not release them solely because Tim can no longer be reached is really not a valid reason any more. Sorry Mate!
Jafo
SOH-CM-2024
Copyright can only be used...or abused...
can only be respected or stolen/ripped/'warez'.
I've hunted people down online over the past 20 plus years for IP theft .... long before the creation of 'DMCA' .... even bypassing the ripper and going directly to the host site/company.
Whether it was Nullsoft or Opera ...didn't matter....though the CEO of the former had some choice names for me...;p
Re the paint kits though...it's not the same as 'just' doing another paint with the original kit...it's creating an almost entirely new one...but using Tim's original as the base.... and that will always need consent to distribute, just as altering the model would/should.
Personal use is one thing....public distribution [copying] is what Copyright is designed/intended to police.
can only be respected or stolen/ripped/'warez'.
I've hunted people down online over the past 20 plus years for IP theft .... long before the creation of 'DMCA' .... even bypassing the ripper and going directly to the host site/company.
Whether it was Nullsoft or Opera ...didn't matter....though the CEO of the former had some choice names for me...;p
Re the paint kits though...it's not the same as 'just' doing another paint with the original kit...it's creating an almost entirely new one...but using Tim's original as the base.... and that will always need consent to distribute, just as altering the model would/should.
Personal use is one thing....public distribution [copying] is what Copyright is designed/intended to police.
Not wanting to pour oil into the fire, but I beg to differ on a paint kit. It does not alter anything on the 3d model of the original creation. If the author does not explicitly forbid it (and why should he, it compliments his creation) a paint kit can be made. And shared. As long as it is not monetized there's nothing to fear.
Cheers,
Mark
Cheers,
Mark
Jafo
SOH-CM-2024
Mark ....not quite. I used Tim's kit to make my own., I didn't make one where none existed.
If I were to reverse-engineer another person's paint and sort of split layers by recreating them and then distribute that as a kit it'd be a little less of an issue.
Altering a kit is just like altering a model....people really should ask...
If I were to reverse-engineer another person's paint and sort of split layers by recreating them and then distribute that as a kit it'd be a little less of an issue.
Altering a kit is just like altering a model....people really should ask...
Switchblade408
Members +
So, what I've gathered from this is that I'm better off making an entirely new model. Sorry for causing such a ruckus among my fellow simmers. That was unintentional.