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Prepar3D V4.4 with PBR Engine Released

gman5250

gman5250

Charter Member
Prepar3D V4.4 just released with full PBR support. Looks like I'll be doing a clean install...again.:encouragement:

From the P3D Latest News:

"A focal point of this release is the core rendering engine has been updated to fully support Physically Based Rendering (PBR) laying the groundwork for next-level realism and unparalleled graphical fidelity in a full earth simulator."
 
I read the SDK last night. Looks like it's slightly different than DCS or War Thunder as far as how they use RGBA but the nice thing is all you need to do is swap locations of your various channels
 
Hoping LM will someday add self reflection as in War Thunder and iL2 Sturmovik. It's stunning to look at!

Jug_1_Default.jpg.9c2423ddfcc3aeb2cbdf75914c584577.jpg
 
So what do you boys think of the PBR effect as seen on the F-16 in v4.4 ?..... Does it cover your expectations ??...

Here's what *i* see on my machine about that after updating client and content to 4.4 :

4.43.jpg


4.44.jpg


Pretty bad, huh..... ( as in quite wonderful really )

Very curious about how other models will look with PBR activated.
 
Thanks for these big screens ! Finally I can see the effects of this PBR. Believe it or not, these are actually the very first screenshot I see about the 4.4 Falcon...

One question though: did they rebuild the VC model?
The reason I ask: yesterday, I have tried this F-16 for the first time, in P3Dv4.3 (client is 4.4, but content is still 4.3), with a VR helmet.
I realized that the virtual cockpit is too small ! It is made for a kid or some very small person, probably :D
Basically, it's out of scale. Completely.
Because of this, it's unusable in VR... I was hoping this plane would get some model update in 4.4, perhaps ?
 
Javis said:
So what do you boys think of the PBR effect as seen on the F-16 in v4.4 ?..... Does it cover your expectations ??...

Here's what *i* see on my machine about that after updating client and content to 4.4

Pretty bad, huh..... ( as in quite wonderful really )

Very curious about how other models will look with PBR activated.
Click to expand...

Those are fantastic caps Jan. I'm going to be downloading tonight, then the install will take a couple of days to get everything plugged in. I've been converting all of my work to PBR for the last few months. This week I completely renovated my KBIH Easter Sierra Regional scenery to update the buildings and ground polys for full PBR. I've been focusing on this for quite a long time now, so I'm very excited to see the results.

Once the sim is up to full song, I'll shoot some caps and video of a full PBR scenery and one of my PBR aircraft.

Glad to see you share the enthusiasm I do for the PBR engine. :encouragement:
 
Daube said:
Thanks for these big screens ! Finally I can see the effects of this PBR. Believe it or not, these are actually the very first screenshot I see about the 4.4 Falcon...

One question though: did they rebuild the VC model?
The reason I ask: yesterday, I have tried this F-16 for the first time, in P3Dv4.3 (client is 4.4, but content is still 4.3), with a VR helmet.
I realized that the virtual cockpit is too small ! It is made for a kid or some very small person, probably :D
Basically, it's out of scale. Completely.
Because of this, it's unusable in VR... I was hoping this plane would get some model update in 4.4, perhaps ?
Click to expand...

Well, i'm certainly not an F-16 expert, Daube, but i don't have the feeling something is changed in the VC. I can't say i see much of PBR effects in the VC textures neither. Atleast not like i see it on the external textures. Certainly makes for extra realism, love it.

Then again, alas i still have never experienced anything in VR.... So i can't tell anything about that regarding the F-16 VC. I am very much looking forward to VR in our flightsims but i still feel it's not exactly the time yet. (Am i right ??.... ;-) ( and i probabely will need a new rig... )

cheers,
jan
 
gman5250 said:
Those are fantastic caps Jan. I'm going to be downloading tonight, then the install will take a couple of days to get everything plugged in. I've been converting all of my work to PBR for the last few months. This week I completely renovated my KBIH Easter Sierra Regional scenery to update the buildings and ground polys for full PBR. I've been focusing on this for quite a long time now, so I'm very excited to see the results.

Once the sim is up to full song, I'll shoot some caps and video of a full PBR scenery and one of my PBR aircraft.
Click to expand...

That would be mighty interesting, Gordon, looking forward to it !


Can you explain a little about what PBR will mean to groundpoly's, Gordon ? Thanks! ( or skip that and just show us.... :cool: )

Glad to see you share the enthusiasm I do for the PBR engine. :encouragement:
Click to expand...

You bet !

It may not look like it just yet but i can maybe imagine it will turn out that PBR will have the same impact that reflectivity and specular light once had on our sim visual experience. Love it ! I'm sure there'll come a time we can't do without it anymore. ;-)

v44f16.jpg


cheers,
jan
 
Having just upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4 and trying the F-16 both before and after I can't say I saw any differences in the VC, but I have also never tried VR.
 
Javis said:
Can you explain a little about what PBR will mean to groundpoly's, Gordon ? Thanks! ( or skip that and just show us.... :cool: )
Click to expand...

Probably the biggest thing will be the availability of specular and bump mapping on ground polys, but the entire process is going to become more intuitive. I haven't begun to work with the current SDK, and I think it will be a process learning how to use new features fully, but from what I have experimented with the last couple of years I would anticipate that ground polys and scenery objects will become as important as Virtual Cockpits.

Until now, developers have been limited to textures that they have created from photos, or Photoshop. Developing with PBR tools will change all of that. Suites like Quixel or Substance Painter let the developer create extremely complex and realistic textures for terrain, vegetation, structures and vehicles. For ground polys, an artist can tailor every square meter of ground to suit regional and seasonal requirements. The only limits are, of course, going to be the ability of the CPU and GPU to manage those assets, but that technology along with 64 bit platforms will improve with time.

My work has been focused in this area for at least three years, and my projects are ready for a full PBR engine....I hope. lol
As soon as I am able to install the new P3D I'll know for sure.

I'll post up a couple of screens, and make a vid for the PBR thread. I'm sure there will be a lot to talk about.
 
Gordon, specular and bump maps were already available in P3D for GPs, I believe also in v3.5. I’m sure though that now, if one uses PBR tools to develop them, the results would be much more impressive.

Lots of reading to do and your thread and videos are a great source.
 
Javis said:
So what do you boys think of the PBR effect as seen on the F-16 in v4.4 ?..... Does it cover your expectations ??...

Here's what *i* see on my machine about that after updating client and content to 4.4 :

4.43.jpg


4.44.jpg


Pretty bad, huh..... ( as in quite wonderful really )

Very curious about how other models will look with PBR activated.
Click to expand...
Totally unrelated to the current topic, but relevant to those who will utilize PBR for aircraft texturing, and more specifically Military Aircraft. I have a real problem with artists who feel the need to "dirty up" the appearance of fighters as though by their very nature and type of role they play it will show how "used" they are.

After 26 years of working on Fighters, from the F-100 to the F-16 and many in between, there isn't a Crew Chief worth his salt that would allow his airplane to look like the ones depicted here. It makes no difference if it's here at home base or somewhere in some far flung desert base. Two things are always on their minds "Corrosion control and cleanliness". Airplanes are cleaned daily before and after sorties (wiped down, grease spots or fuel streaks eliminated. . .canopy transparencies wiped and polished intermittently). Aircraft also get a visit to the wash rack at predetermined intervals. CC's take great pride in maintaining "their airplane" and having it not only Combat ready at all times but also devoid of any corrosive sediment, oils, moisture etc.

So please consider what actual aircraft really look like when doing your repaints. Just because it's an airplane that's been in-service for 20 years, doesn't mean it's supposed to show that many layers of dirt.
 
No disrespect to Crew Chiefs (or the Air Force), but those who operate from cushy land airbases (where the golf course is built before the runway...lol) don't appreciate that others have to operate from sea based carriers where wash racks and wide open maintenance spaces are not available. Most of the fresh water on a carrier goes toward drinking and showers, little is left for washing equipment and aircraft. Corrosion is accelerated by sea salt air (and the occasional splash over the rail).

Don't get me wrong, I really like the "look and smell of a new car", but, at least in the Navy, that "look and smell" didn't last long into the first cruise! Carry on!
 
Ed...I agree completely. The exceptions are WWII or WWI aircraft in theater, where they were used hard and put up wet. Even then they were maintained as well as could be expected. More contemporary aircraft would be maintained to as high a level as possible.

Dimus,

I actually used spec and bumps on the GPs in my ORBX Squamish project. Runway dirt, oil and cracks all had profiles that would create height and reflected light. Those aspects of that project were, for the most part, overlooked in all of the product reviews.

The problem is that the previous engines struggled with light rendering when it came to bump/alpha and spec/alpha combinations. In many cases specular reflection would change depending on the direction of the eyepoint, which created visual distortions of specular light in intersecting ground polys. Bump alphas would complicate those anomalies.

According to LM, the new engine will render light more correctly. What I am hoping for is to be able to construct a ground poly i.e. terminal parking area with oil stains, wear, reflective markings and cracks in the PBR software, then render those textures out to an engine that is capable of interpreting the various factors like gloss, height, metalness, ambient occlusion and specular light as they were built in.

Until now, I have been able to create lovely wear features and other aspects like water puddles in older P3D versions, but have had to "bake & fake" the textures for the previous rendering engines to represent those values. I won't know until I've had some time in the new SDK and in the sim, but I have high confidence that we are heading towards that ultimate moment when we can go from something like an Unreal engine, Quixel, SD, or 3DS Vray to virtual light, ray tracing, particle physics and the rest...in the sim. Other simulator games do it...I know LM certainly has the resources to make it happen. It remains to be seen what their vision is for their platform.


IMO :encouragement:
 
falcon409 said:
Totally unrelated to the current topic, but relevant to those who will utilize PBR for aircraft texturing, and more specifically Military Aircraft. I have a real problem with artists who feel the need to "dirty up" the appearance of fighters as though by their very nature and type of role they play it will show how "used" they are.

After 26 years of working on Fighters, from the F-100 to the F-16 and many in between, there isn't a Crew Chief worth his salt that would allow his airplane to look like the ones depicted here. It makes no difference if it's here at home base or somewhere in some far flung desert base. Two things are always on their minds "Corrosion control and cleanliness". Airplanes are cleaned daily before and after sorties (wiped down, grease spots or fuel streaks eliminated. . .canopy transparencies wiped and polished intermittently). Aircraft also get a visit to the wash rack at predetermined intervals. CC's take great pride in maintaining "their airplane" and having it not only Combat ready at all times but also devoid of any corrosive sediment, oils, moisture etc.

So please consider what actual aircraft really look like when doing your repaints. Just because it's an airplane that's been in-service for 20 years, doesn't mean it's supposed to show that many layers of dirt.
Click to expand...

I agree Falcon. And to prove what you are saying, here is a pic of a Phantom of your unit

F4E720135.jpg


Priller
 
gman5250 said:
Probably the biggest thing will be the availability of specular and bump mapping on ground polys, but the entire process is going to become more intuitive. I haven't begun to work with the current SDK, and I think it will be a process learning how to use new features fully, but from what I have experimented with the last couple of years I would anticipate that ground polys and scenery objects will become as important as Virtual Cockpits.

Until now, developers have been limited to textures that they have created from photos, or Photoshop. Developing with PBR tools will change all of that. Suites like Quixel or Substance Painter let the developer create extremely complex and realistic textures for terrain, vegetation, structures and vehicles. For ground polys, an artist can tailor every square meter of ground to suit regional and seasonal requirements. The only limits are, of course, going to be the ability of the CPU and GPU to manage those assets, but that technology along with 64 bit platforms will improve with time.

My work has been focused in this area for at least three years, and my projects are ready for a full PBR engine....I hope. lol
As soon as I am able to install the new P3D I'll know for sure.

I'll post up a couple of screens, and make a vid for the PBR thread. I'm sure there will be a lot to talk about.
Click to expand...

Very interesting, Gordon, thanks very much ! Yes, i'm sure these are going to be exiting times for P3D developers. "The sky is the limit" becoming more true each year. And i'm also sure we haven't seen nothing yet with the v4.4 F-16 when it comes to PBR.. ;-) I have a couple of models in the works myself so i'm going to follow everything PBR related with eagle eyes and have a go at it once i know how :wink:

Baz ( Barry, AH) says that the patch for the C-119 will include PBR textures. Not available here in Europe yet, sitting on the fence !

Thanks again, Gordon, looking forward to anything PBR related you'll come up with ! :encouragement:

cheers,
Jan
 
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