Prop-Behind-Cloud syndrome

[tommieboy]

Has anybody tested this FS9 model in P3Dv2 ?
If I'm not mistaken, the "regular" FS9 models that used to suffer from "props behind the clouds" problems in FSX are in fact showing CORRECTLY in P3Dv2....

I just read this past week that this may in fact be on a plane to plane basis depending on how the prop was modeled, as some of the FS9 models are indeed showing up with the prop / cloud issue in P3Dv2. I have been trying to track down that thread / post, but it may have been on another site. I'll keep looking. What a bummer, if this is indeed true, as my ears did perk up when I originally heard that P3Dv2 solved this issue for the FS9 aircraft.

Tommy

 

[LE151]

You beat me to it Roger. All original A26B/C's converted by Bomber_12th available in library.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links_search.php?action=show&keys=1&keyword=bomber_12th

Also, the F7F-1,3,3N series will be converted to FSX native as soon as the rework project is done.

Yes Sir Mr. Shupe,

But I must be missing something. Is the new FSX native model propspin supposed to show against cloud background? Here are my examples from today flying your awsome A-26. The first is "Stinky" then "Airfix". With "Stinky" you can definately see the propspin with cloud backdrop.....but with "Airfix" the propspin is invisible against the clouds.

 

[Roger]

LE151 in your shots I can see the prop disk in front of the clouds where it should be. The prop alpha is pretty dark so it's relatively faint.

 

[LE151]

LE151 in your shots I can see the prop disk in front of the clouds where it should be. The prop alpha is pretty dark so it's relatively faint.

Yes Sir,
I am not sure which propspin or texture is making the difference. It is totally transparent in the "Airfix" texture......but with the "Stinky" texture, the propspin shows correctly against the clouds. Is it the propspin texture or something else??

 

[Desert Rat]

With FS9 models, transparencies by material should be at the bottom of the parts list in the modelling hierarchy, ie. last. If they are not, other parts appear in front of them. This is an issue in FS9 also, just not noticed by many people, you need to look closely to try and see a difference between, say, the wing that is behind and not behind the canopy glass. I'mnot sure how incorrectly ordered parts would manifest in FSX, but may result in parts becoming invisible? Fix would be from source or backwards engineering through MdlConX or possibly SCASM/hex editing.

If you have a prop disc that is fully opaque and uses textures for transparency, to find out, rename the texture folder sothe model shows 'naked' in sim, ie. base materials show. with engines started you'll see if the disc is opaque. If it is there may be a fix. This ultimately depends on if the solid disc uses it's own material or shares a material with other parts. If you want to make it transparent, you don't want other parts affected, transparent wings, etc.

The way I know of is to use mdlMat by Martin Wright, ACM (or other model viewer that allows different anim states) and notepad (or paper & pen). Using mdlmat you can change colour and transparency of each material in turn in the model (FS9), say to solid bright pink (as it is very seldom used by modellers), load the bare solid model in ACM, look for pink bits, revert them back to original properties (hence notepad) then move on to the next material, so on and so forth, until you find your solid disc, if it is then the only part solid pink, your in luck, revert the colour, add transparency and bingo. If other parts are affected, your only choice is backwards engineering, sorry.

Jamie

 

[LE151]

With FS9 models, transparencies by material should be at the bottom of the parts list in the modelling hierarchy, ie. last. If they are not, other parts appear in front of them. This is an issue in FS9 also, just not noticed by many people, you need to look closely to try and see a difference between, say, the wing that is behind and not behind the canopy glass. I'mnot sure how incorrectly ordered parts would manifest in FSX, but may result in parts becoming invisible? Fix would be from source or backwards engineering through MdlConX or possibly SCASM/hex editing.

If you have a prop disc that is fully opaque and uses textures for transparency, to find out, rename the texture folder sothe model shows 'naked' in sim, ie. base materials show. with engines started you'll see if the disc is opaque. If it is there may be a fix. This ultimately depends on if the solid disc uses it's own material or shares a material with other parts. If you want to make it transparent, you don't want other parts affected, transparent wings, etc.

The way I know of is to use mdlMat by Martin Wright, ACM (or other model viewer that allows different anim states) and notepad (or paper & pen). Using mdlmat you can change colour and transparency of each material in turn in the model (FS9), say to solid bright pink (as it is very seldom used by modellers), load the bare solid model in ACM, look for pink bits, revert them back to original properties (hence notepad) then move on to the next material, so on and so forth, until you find your solid disc, if it is then the only part solid pink, your in luck, revert the colour, add transparency and bingo. If other parts are affected, your only choice is backwards engineering, sorry.

Jamie

Thanks Jamie.......I think?!?!??!

 

[Milton Shupe]

This is most likely a Z-Buffer setting in the actual prop model. The Z-Buffer setting is not making the determination that the prop is either in front or behind the cloud. This can only be fixed in the model itself.

I'm seeing this in some airplanes in P3D. Possibly something for developers to be aware of and take into consideration with new models. Old models would require a patch to fix this.

Just FYI, I tested using ZBias_ on the FSX portover xp47h in FSX and it did not correct the problem. Tried both the material name change as well as the texture name change and both. I usually run my prop material at 7% opaque and use the alpha to tweak transparency. I did not try 100% opaque using ZBias but will do so tomorrow.

 

[mikezola]

Happy New Year, all...

Just as Falcon409 did, I've experimented on some of Ito-San's aircraft and others as I ported them over to FSX- I used MdlMat to set the alpha of the prop disc to a value of 1 or 2. This seems to minimize, but not totally fix, the prop disc anomaly to a point where it's not very noticeable. For some reason, setting it to 0 makes it worse. The degree of success I've had depends on the model in question...

-Mike Z.

 

[expat]

Any chance of you experts having a look at Eric Dante's "JoJo" Twin Bonanza FS9 port? It really is quite nice in FSX except for the solid prop disks. Even if these can be made almost invisible that would make it more flyable.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?84380-this-is-just-sexy/page2