Questions for those who use VR

[jmfabio]

Hi all,

I just purchase a new machine with the following specs.

i9 13900KF@ 3.0GHz to 5.8GHz
GeForce RTX 4090, 24GB GDDR6X
64GB, 2x32GB, DDR5, 4800MHz, XMP
1350W PSU

I am thinking of taking a foray into VR because of the natural limitations of TrackIR that I currently use. (track clip moving outside the range of the IR with extreme head movement). So I have the following questions for those who care to respond.

1. What VR headset do you use and how is the resolution/crispness of the instrument panel? Does your set have fresnel lenses or pancake lenses?

2. Can you look straight up, over the shoulder etc. with VR as one would if flying a fighter plane or jet? These are my main type of aircraft although I do fly other types.

3. How easy is it to use peripheral switches on Hotas?

4. How easy is it to use the mouse for switches in the cockpit?

5. Last year I had my cataracts removed and my implants allow me to see at a distance. Haven't had this luxury since 3rd grade. So I must wear bifocals or readers for close vision. Will I need to wear my glasses or not?

6. I have seen in my research that the oculus/meta quest comes in 128 GB or 256 GB. What is the memory used for?

This is all I can think of for now. I am sure more questions will crop up once I see answers etc.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Regards, Joe

 

[keithb77]

Quest 2 and for me it's brilliant

Just sharp enough to read steam gauge instruments well, MFDs can be tricky...just zoom in

You can see everywhere your neck can twist to - I regularly 'dogfight' in jets and props, completely different to flat screen flying...

HOTAS is easy, mouse OK for switches

Quest memory is for games installed in the headset, for PC use even the old 64GB is more than enough (I have that one, very little installed)

 

[jmfabio]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the reply.

Quest 2 and for me it's brilliant


You can see everywhere your neck can twist to - I regularly 'dogfight' in jets and props, completely different to flat screen flying...

Do you have 20/20 distant vision? Or do you need to wear glasses. If you wear glasses, do you use the spacer?

Thanks again, JOE

 

[Bookman1960]

Prescription Lenses - Just a Suggestion

G'day.

If you have corrected vision, I recommend checking out the numerous options for having prescription lenses made for your headset. Not expensive and well worth the money IMHO.

I love mine. I wear contacts most of the time but when I need to take a few days and give my eyes a break (back to glasses -- ugh-- I am almost blind with glasses, as my prescription is so bad), I use my Quest 2 prescription lenses. Wonderful!

You can find options everywhere, even thru Amazon.

Just a thought I figured I could share/suggest.

KevinB

 

[jmfabio]

G'day.

If you have corrected vision, I recommend checking out the numerous options for having prescription lenses made for your headset. Not expensive and well worth the money IMHO.

I love mine. I wear contacts most of the time but when I need to take a few days and give my eyes a break (back to glasses -- ugh-- I am almost blind with glasses, as my prescription is so bad), I use my Quest 2 prescription lenses. Wonderful!

You can find options everywhere, even thru Amazon.

Just a thought I figured I could share/suggest.

KevinB

Thanks for responding Kevin, It sounds as though you are near sighted and require lenses to see close, but that is a guess.

I have good DISTANCE VISION, and CORRECTED NEAR VISION. My question concerning glasses is will I need to wear my glasses because the "screen" is close?

Sorry for the repeat question.

Thanks, Joe

 

[Daube]

Hi all,

I just purchase a new machine with the following specs.

i9 13900KF@ 3.0GHz to 5.8GHz
GeForce RTX 4090, 24GB GDDR6X
64GB, 2x32GB, DDR5, 4800MHz, XMP
1350W PSU

I am thinking of taking a foray into VR because of the natural limitations of TrackIR that I currently use. (track clip moving outside the range of the IR with extreme head movement). So I have the following questions for those who care to respond.

1. What VR headset do you use and how is the resolution/crispness of the instrument panel? Does your set have fresnel lenses or pancake lenses?

I am currently using a Pico 4. I never use it in wireless/wifi, I only use it connected via USB. That headset has pancake lenses.
Before that one, I had a Lenovo Explorer, which is a first gen WMR headset. That headset had fresnel lenses. So I have experience with both kind of lenses, and I can tell you pancake is better.

2. Can you look straight up, over the shoulder etc. with VR as one would if flying a fighter plane or jet? These are my main type of aircraft although I do fly other types.

Yes, you can look everywhere, including behind you, because unlike a TrackIR, you don't need to keep your eyes on the fixed screen on your desk. The screen is on your nose.
The problem is, you'll have to turn your head much more, and also a VR headset is a bit like wearing a scuba diving mask: your peripheral vision will be a bit restricted.
The biggest difference is that in VR, you will finally perceive the distances and altitudes properly. This is probably going to be a bit impressive at the beginning.

3. How easy is it to use peripheral switches on Hotas?

Once you know where your switches are located, you don't need to look for them.
The one and only "difficult" thing is when you have to press some key on the keyboard. For the rest, joystick, mouse etc... you know where they are, you don't need to look at them.

4. How easy is it to use the mouse for switches in the cockpit?

It's basically the same as clicking your virtual cockpit on your 2D screen with your TrackIR. You see your cursor floating in the cockpit, following the surface of the instruments and buttons. Clicking and using the scrollwheel works in the same way as on your normal screen.

5. Last year I had my cataracts removed and my implants allow me to see at a distance. Haven't had this luxury since 3rd grade. So I must wear bifocals or readers for close vision. Will I need to wear my glasses or not?

My close vision became a bit bad in the last few years, I need glasses to read text on my laptop screen or on my telephone, for example. Distant vision is fine. In the VR headset, I have no issues. However, be aware that distant objects/scenery are usually not very crisp in VR.

6. I have seen in my research that the oculus/meta quest comes in 128 GB or 256 GB. What is the memory used for?

This memory is internal storage for the games that you could buy on their store. The Quest is a kind of gaming console, it can work without your computer, running its own games that are installed on its internal hardrive, so to say.
My Pico 4 is similar.
For those like us who just use PC games/sims, this internal memory is totally useless because our games are installed on the computer.
So you'll be totally fine with the "small" 128 Gb version

 

[Daube]

Just some general remarks, regarding your incoming first experiences in VR:

1- It will most likely make you feel sick. Like, sea-sick, or road-sick, whatever. You will want to puke. The secret is the same as with boats and cars: you'll quickly get used to it What is important is to avoid trying to move your head fast at first. Do slow movements with your head, look around slowly. Avoid aerobatic flights too, at first. Give yourself a few "peaceful" sessions to get used to seeing through a headset. DO NOT underestimate this. Smoothness is the key. Stutters will make you feel sick faster. Keep that in mind.

2- VR headsets will not provide you a picture as crisp as what you are getting on your screen, even if you go to very high-end headset. You choice of Quest2 is perfect for starting. You'll see the image is a bit blurry, especially in the distance. That will probably be disappointing at first, but you'll quickly get used to it, especially when putting this in balance with the new sensations/vision you get in flight. Just expect it.

3- VR is heavy on the performance. For many games/sims, you'll probably have to lower quite a few settings. It doesn't mean your sim will look bad. Just not as "good" as it was on your 2D screen. Smoothness is the most important thing, so you'll get over that quite quickly anyways

 

[Daube]

Thanks for responding Kevin, It sounds as though you are near sighted and require lenses to see close, but that is a guess.

I have good DISTANCE VISION, and CORRECTED NEAR VISION. My question concerning glasses is will I need to wear my glasses because the "screen" is close?

Sorry for the repeat question.

Thanks, Joe

It's a bit difficult to answer this without personal experience, so I'll let the other VR users reply.
However, from what I have read here and there, even though the screen is technically on your nose, the "projection" resulting from the lenses (I guess) is like the screen is one meter away from you. Not sure if this is the same for all headsets, but I do not feel like I need my glasses in the headset...

 

[jmig]

Everything Daube said, seconded. As a former real world pilot, I can say that flying in VR is as close as you will get to real life in a sim. Twice I had the oppertunity to fly the USAF's T-6II 270 degree full projection simulator. I find MSFS in VR to be as good or better than the multi-million dollar sim.

I have an HP G2 and use inserts I purchased online for about $70. I cannot use my glasses with the G2 because of space limitations. As Daube stated, sometime the details in the scenery are slightly out of focus, however I donot find that distracting. The advantages of VR, in my opinion, far out weight the disadvantages.

I highly recommend VR.

 

[jmfabio]

@Daube

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Yes, the Quest 2 seems like a good entry level set. I have read on another forum about the Pico 4, but not only being expensive I don't think it is available in the USA, I may be wrong about that.

I have friends that cannot even where a TrackIR without breaking out in a sweat, so it will be interesting to see how disorienting a VR headset is for me. I once did 45 minutes of aerobatics in a TP-40N within an hour of eating. No problems with nausea.

Do you use the USB connector because of poor wifi connection between the headset and computer?

I guess the only real way to find out about the glasses issue is to try.

I only do short flights of about an hour to an hour and a half because my old bones get stiff after sitting for so long.

Thanks again for the reply, Joe

 

[jmfabio]

Everything Daube said, seconded. As a former real world pilot, I can say that flying in VR is as close as you will get to real life in a sim. Twice I had the oppertunity to fly the USAF's T-6II 270 degree full projection simulator. I find MSFS in VR to be as good or better than the multi-million dollar sim.

I have an HP G2 and use inserts I purchased online for about $70. I cannot use my glasses with the G2 because of space limitations. As Daube stated, sometime the details in the scenery are slightly out of focus, however I donot find that distracting. The advantages of VR, in my opinion, far out weight the disadvantages.

I highly recommend VR.

Hi John, thanks for answering and thanks for your service!

Retired army here. i am beginning to get the feeling that VR is the way to go. the most intriguing thing is your comparison with the USAF's simulator. That is a ringing endorsement for VR and a VR headset is cheaper than PPL!

It seems like all I have to do is commit and order.

Thanks again, Joe

 

[keithb77]

I don't wear glasses so can't help on that.
Be aware the Quest 3 will be 'announced' next month
"[FONT=&quot]Meta Quest 3. The new headset will cost £499 and will be fully backwards compatible with your existing library of Meta Quest 2 games.
It will offer twice the processing power, better resolution, a 40 per cent thinner profile, improved controllers and full-colour mixed reality passthrough."[/FONT]

 

[William Njurmi]

1. Pimax 8X K, FOV is good and quite sharp to read read gauges.
2. Yes.
I find it difficult to use mouse but HOTAS is easy as you probably used it without looking already.

 

[Javis]

Possibly just like you i have been on the fence to get into VR with MSFS for a long time. Thinking it might well be just not good enough yet. Februari this year i bought a HP Reverb G2 and can't tell you how much over the moon i am taking this big leap in flightsimulation because that's just what it is. You'll see !

I might also add that i started to get serious about it by asking questions about VR right here and got all the answers right here too ! You might want to check out that thread here http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...ch-to-VR-August-Answers-Your-Questions!/page5 You'll find most of your questions answered there too.

No VR pilot here will be able to convey the sheer beauty, excitement and thrill that VR will bring you because it simply cannot be described with words. Maybe "you actually haven't been flightsimming sofar at all..." might come close. And also i actually cried when for the first time i took off in my beloved Tiger Moth in VR. Not good because you can't see anymore and can't wipe the tears away neither. ;-)

Glasses is a bit of conundrum. I use glasses for about all of my life. To drive my car, to watch TV and to read a book. Flying VR for about half a year now and i am still not sure about using them with my G2 headset. I just can't make up my mind if everything ( cockpit and scenery outside) looks better with or without my glasses. Sometimes it does sometimes it just doesn't. You will have to absolutely find out for yourself, Joe.

With peripheral switches on HOTAS or other peripheral flightsim stuff we have arrived at the *big* downside of VR, atleast IMHO. The beauty of flying VR is totally indescribable but personally i feel kind of 'locked up' in it. No wonder of course with that big black blister on your head... Because of that i quickly realised i'd best fly only simple aircraft in VR. My luck here is that i love 'simple' aircraft in the first place so not much of a biggie for me. I do love the vintage propliners but even the DC-3 is too complex for me to fly in VR. Mostly to do with the peripherals but certainly also because the gauges starting to become unreadable. I have the wonderful Honeycomb Bravo Throttle with special DC-3 and DC-4/6 levers. Of course i tried them flying the DC-3 in VR but let me just say that it turned out to be not much fun at all. And upon landing turned into total disaster with my headset on my forehead... .

I have seen VR pilots write that they fly VR only, never 2D anymore but that's really something i can't understand. No matter how amazingly beautiful flying in VR is if i had to give up on 'normally' flying in 2D i'd probabely give up on flightsimming all together. Flying 2D and 3D both have their specific charms, enjoyment and pleasure and i, for one, see no reason to rule out one against the other. I love flying a DC-6 or 737 in 2D as much as flying a Tiggie or a Spit in VR. Best of both worlds !

Welcome to the 3D club, Joe. You're going to love it !

 

[Stickshaker]

I have a Valve VR-set (don't know the specifications; it was installed for me) and although I mainly use it for DCS I think it is fantastic! I second Jmig here (having had a microlight PPL) that VR is the way to go.

 

[K5083]

Welcome aboard the VR train. I use VR about 50% of the time in MSFS and near 100% of the time in P3D, IL2, and other sims.

1. What VR headset do you use and how is the resolution/crispness of the instrument panel? Does your set have fresnel lenses or pancake lenses?

HP Reverb G2. Fresnel lenses. Resolution is much less than my 1440p screen in all areas, as with any VR unit, but sharpness is good in the center. Sweet spot is relatively small, but sharpness outside the sweet spot is not terrible. Experientially, the 3D effect makes up for a lot of lost resolution, but you will always find it harder to read small print on instruments, discern detail in the environment, etc. with VR than you would with a good screen.

2. Can you look straight up, over the shoulder etc. with VR as one would if flying a fighter plane or jet? These are my main type of aircraft although I do fly other types.

Yes. You can even stand up and look behind you or walk out onto the wing and look around if you want. You will get a sore neck if you keep looking behind you, just like in real life. This is actually an advantage of TrackIR, you can look directly behind you without turning your head as much. But the VR is 1:1 actual and virtual movement and you can look anywhere, so a lot of people like that.

Note that with VR there is very little ability to zoom. There is a limited zoom-in view, but no zoom-out, and no ability to adjust the zoom a little at a time as on a screen. One of the nicest things when I go back to the screen is the ability to widen the view so I can see things in peripheral vision when taxiing, zoom in as much as I need to find an airport in the distance, etc.

3. How easy is it to use peripheral switches on Hotas?

Using your stick and throttle HOTAS controls is fine, but you can't see them, so must memorize switch locations and sometimes grope to find them.

4. How easy is it to use the mouse for switches in the cockpit?

Very easy. You get a clear mouse pointer, tooltips, etc.

You didn't ask how easy it is to use the keyboard, which is sometimes needed to enter text or do functions that can't be mapped to mouse or HOTAS. This is quite hard. I keep a mini wireless keyboard on the desk between the throttle and stick that I can use without too much groping for the keys.

5. Last year I had my cataracts removed and my implants allow me to see at a distance. Haven't had this luxury since 3rd grade. So I must wear bifocals or readers for close vision. Will I need to wear my glasses or not?

No. You only need distance vision to use a VR headset.

If you are considering the Reverb, I would say it delivers a good experience and is currently the best value for money, but you can do better for more money. You have to pay at least twice as much to do any better at all, though.

August

 

[jmfabio]

Possibly just like you i have been on the fence to get into VR with MSFS for a long time. T
No VR pilot here will be able to convey the sheer beauty, excitement and thrill that VR will bring you because it simply cannot be described with words. Maybe "you actually haven't been flightsimming sofar at all..." might come close. And also i actually cried when for the first time i took off in my beloved Tiger Moth in VR. Not good because you can't see anymore and can't wipe the tears away neither. ;-)

I have seen VR pilots write that they fly VR only, never 2D anymore but that's really something i can't understand. No matter how amazingly beautiful flying in VR is if i had to give up on 'normally' flying in 2D i'd probabely give up on flightsimming all together. Flying 2D and 3D both have their specific charms, enjoyment and pleasure and i, for one, see no reason to rule out one against the other. I love flying a DC-6 or 737 in 2D as much as flying a Tiggie or a Spit in VR. Best of both worlds !

Thanks Javis for the reply. I did check out your link for the other topic and found it both entertaining and informative.

My quest into VR is because I travel between a winter home and summer home. It is a pain to transport a computer, monitor and loads of peripherals. Too reduce the wear and tear on the equipment I purchased a new computer with the specs listed in the original post. But I still need a monitor or VR headset!

The headset is not much more expensive than a good monitor. If VR is as immersive as people say it is, I don't think I would miss a new 4K monitor.

I think I have gotten off the fence and will purchase one, however now I am on another fence: purchase now or delay gratification until the Meta quest 3 comes out to see reviews of that! Decisions, decisions.

I fly mainly warbirds and DC-3. I also have the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo peripherals. So I would probably do my DC-3 flying in 2-D.

I too have loved the MAAM-Sim planes. I go to MAAM every June for their WW 2 Weekend. Can't wait to see the P-61 fly!

So thanks again for your input, Joe

 

[jmfabio]

Welcome aboard the VR train. I use VR about 50% of the time in MSFS and near 100% of the time in P3D, IL2, and other sims.

1. What VR headset do you use and how is the resolution/crispness of the instrument panel? Does your set have fresnel lenses or pancake lenses?

HP Reverb G2. Fresnel lenses. Resolution is much less than my 1440p screen in all areas, as with any VR unit, but sharpness is good in the center. Sweet spot is relatively small, but sharpness outside the sweet spot is not terrible. Experientially, the 3D effect makes up for a lot of lost resolution, but you will always find it harder to read small print on instruments, discern detail in the environment, etc. with VR than you would with a good screen.

2. Can you look straight up, over the shoulder etc. with VR as one would if flying a fighter plane or jet? These are my main type of aircraft although I do fly other types.

Yes. You can even stand up and look behind you or walk out onto the wing and look around if you want. You will get a sore neck if you keep looking behind you, just like in real life. This is actually an advantage of TrackIR, you can look directly behind you without turning your head as much. But the VR is 1:1 actual and virtual movement and you can look anywhere, so a lot of people like that.

Note that with VR there is very little ability to zoom. There is a limited zoom-in view, but no zoom-out, and no ability to adjust the zoom a little at a time as on a screen. One of the nicest things when I go back to the screen is the ability to widen the view so I can see things in peripheral vision when taxiing, zoom in as much as I need to find an airport in the distance, etc.

3. How easy is it to use peripheral switches on Hotas?

Using your stick and throttle HOTAS controls is fine, but you can't see them, so must memorize switch locations and sometimes grope to find them.

4. How easy is it to use the mouse for switches in the cockpit?

Very easy. You get a clear mouse pointer, tooltips, etc.

You didn't ask how easy it is to use the keyboard, which is sometimes needed to enter text or do functions that can't be mapped to mouse or HOTAS. This is quite hard. I keep a mini wireless keyboard on the desk between the throttle and stick that I can use without too much groping for the keys.

5. Last year I had my cataracts removed and my implants allow me to see at a distance. Haven't had this luxury since 3rd grade. So I must wear bifocals or readers for close vision. Will I need to wear my glasses or not?

No. You only need distance vision to use a VR headset.

If you are considering the Reverb, I would say it delivers a good experience and is currently the best value for money, but you can do better for more money. You have to pay at least twice as much to do any better at all, though.

August

August, Thank you for the detailed reply.

I never did consider the zoom in/zoom out. Sometimes I do need to zoom in to find an airport also. I imagine that leaning "closer" to the instrument panel also works to zoom in. And I also guess that you can also switch between cockpit view and outside view?

I use two ThrustMaster MFDs for some keyboard commands, particularly ATC and instrument views, etc. Doesn't seem insurmountable.
It is good to know I won't need my glasses.

As I said, I appreciate your input and the input of all the others. It certainly is good to have so many different opinions.

Thanks, Joe

 

[jmfabio]

HI all!

I sincerely want to thank all that have responded in this thread. I got off the fence and ordered a HP reverb G2. Can't wait to try it out.

watch this space for the results.

Thanks again, Joe

 

[K5083]

Great, I think you will be happy with it.

Let me give you one tip. This is about the cable. It plugs into the unit, and comes with a clip for you to clip it to the back of the head strap, which rotates up and forward 90 degrees for you to put the headset on. My cable failed after 6 months. These cables are complicated 3-way (headset, DisplayPort, USB) affairs with a junction box in the middle for power, that has some circuitry in it. They are not user repairable and would be expensive to replace if your warranty has ended. To their credit, HP sent me a new one very promptly, no charge, no (well, few) questions asked. But it's better not to have your cable fail at all, and I believe mine failed because I clipped it to the back of the head strap like I was supposed to. This bent the cable 90 degrees in the same way every time I took the headset on or off, and I think the repetitive flexing fatigued the wires. Now I do not use the clip, I just let the cable hang out of the plug and am careful not to tug or stress it. Generally I drape the cable across my lap and make sure it has some slack in connecting to the headset. This new cable is only a month old, but I hope it lasts a lot longer. HP is going to stop supporting these units in a year or two.

Oh, also, another tip, there is a spacer between the face cushion unit and the main body of the headset. Get rid of the spacer. Thus puts your face closer to the lenses, enhances your field of view a lot, and improves the experience. You may find that your long, lush eyelashes brush against the lenses. I now trim my eyelashes quite short. You'll have to give up using mascara, but it's a sacrifice worth making.

August