Route Planner Problem!

[Ralf Roggeveen]

Can anybody please help to solve this annoying prob...

Route Planner won't cross the Atlantic directly, but insists on going via the Alaskan border!

Trying to set La Guardia - Heathrow, it always does this:

Seem to remember that there is some stupid 'reason' for this happening & that it's quite easy to fix, but don't recall the details.

Any suggestions from you boffins?

 

[hawkeye52]

Hey, People ---COME ON!!! We've GOT to get G-APDA back to Heathrow.
- H52

 

[Mongo]

I've found that frustrating too. Personally, the best work-around that I've found is to use a site like Simroute (www.Simroutes.com) to download a pre-flown route, and then download it into FS9. The only other options I've found are to either fly direct or manually flight plan. Hope this helps a little.

 

[Dangerousdave26]

This will not fix the problem but I used FS Nav to create a High Altitude Airways route to Heathrow. Then I exported it to a flight sim plan.

This is a zip file but because we can not upload zip file to the server I have added .txt to the end of the file name. This fools the server into thinking it is a text file.

Simply down load it and rename it by removing the .txt in the name.

Then simply extract the plan as normal.

Good luck

 

[Dangerousdave26]

And how about this

A plain txt file with the route and nav frequencies.

 

[Ashaman]

The reasons why the default route planner wants you to visit Alaska while trying a travel over the Atlantic Ocean was never explained. To overfly in Alaska (no matter how nice this nation may be) without a reason while trying to go from NY to London is like traveling from London to Tokyo via Mc Murdo Station in Antarctica only for the heck of it. The simple contemplating of this flight plan is stupid. The default route planner is stupid. Better find other ways to define a flight plan, like Routefinder, or even FSnav's quasi-successor, FSCommander.

 

[Willy]

Ralf, I've tried Dave's flight in the default planner and it wouldn't load up. I also tried various ways of generating a KLGA to EGLL flight in the default planner and it kept sending me west too. I think it's looking for waypoints and VORs and the closest ones all have it heading west instead of east.

I went ahead and set up a direct flight IFR flight plan heading to Heathrow from LaGuardia Gate 6. The ATC will likely be pretty quiet and not have you change course so often, but it's the best I can get going from here.

First rename it removing the .txt from the end and place in your Flight Simulater Files folder in My Documents.

When you get to the create flight screen, click on flight planner, and then click on the load button at the bottom of that screen. The flight plan will show up in the list of flights to choose from. Click on it, make the changes you want and you're good to go.

Willy

 

[Wing_Z]

Well...you could set up a GPS track, and then drag the flightpath onto some likely-looking waypoints.
Assume you'd go via Reykjavik...

 

[Ferry_vO]

Yep, a direct GPS route seems the best solution, with a distance of almost 3,000 nm. A high altitude route is a tad over 6,000 nm, but it gets really silly when you try the low altitude airways plan! Over 9,000 nm over the northpole to Alaska, a little backtracking there, then all thew way north past Russia, down to Yugoslavia and then towards Britain..

The problem isn't solved in FsX; still the same routes.

 

[Dangerousdave26]

Ralf, I've tried Dave's flight in the default planner and it wouldn't load up. I also tried various ways of generating a KLGA to EGLL flight in the default planner and it kept sending me west too. I think it's looking for waypoints and VORs and the closest ones all have it heading west instead of east.


Willy

Thats funny it loads up for me with no problems. It must have been corupted when I zipped it up.

Stupid me I never realized you could open a .pnl with note pad.

Here is the contents.

[flightplan]
title=KLGA to EGLL
description=KLGA, EGLL
type=IFR
routetype=1
cruising_altitude=35000
departure_id=KLGA, N40* 46.63', W73* 52.36', +000022.97
departure_position=22
destination_id=EGLL, N51* 28.65', W0* 27.68', +000078.74
departure_name=La Guardia
destination_name=Heathrow
waypoint.0=KLGA, A, N40* 46.63', W73* 52.36', +000022.97,
waypoint.1=NEWES, I, N40* 51.34', W73* 26.69', +000000.00,
waypoint.2=RAALF, I, N41* 17.86', W72* 47.17', +000000.00,
waypoint.3=PVD, V, N41* 43.46', W71* 25.78', +000000.00,
waypoint.4=BOS, V, N42* 21.45', W70* 59.37', +000000.00,
waypoint.5=ENE, V, N43* 25.54', W70* 36.81', +000000.00,
waypoint.6=ODIKE, I, N44* 40.10', W69* 5.58', +000000.00,
waypoint.7=BGR, V, N44* 50.51', W68* 52.44', +000000.00,
waypoint.8=YSJ59, I, N45* 9.67', W67* 13.22', +000000.00,
waypoint.9=YSJ, V, N45* 24.43', W65* 52.25', +000000.00,
waypoint.10=YYG, V, N46* 17.85', W63* 7.18', +000000.00,
waypoint.11=YQX, V, N48* 53.98', W54* 32.10', +000000.00,
waypoint.12=MALOT, I, N53* 0.00', W15* 0.00', +000000.00,
waypoint.13=BURAK, I, N53* 0.00', W12* 0.00', +000000.00,
waypoint.14=SHA, V, N52* 43.26', W8* 53.11', +000000.00,
waypoint.15=ABAGU, I, N52* 30.20', W7* 38.80', +000000.00,
waypoint.16=DIMUS, I, N52* 14.38', W6* 15.08', +000000.00,
waypoint.17=SLANY, I, N52* 9.52', W5* 50.53', +000000.00,
waypoint.18=STU, V, N51* 59.68', W5* 2.42', +000000.00,
waypoint.19=DIKAS, I, N51* 46.62', W3* 15.55', +000000.00,
waypoint.20=NOSDA, I, N51* 40.30', W2* 28.38', +000000.00,
waypoint.21=BASET, I, N51* 33.83', W1* 42.60', +000000.00,
waypoint.22=KENET, I, N51* 31.23', W1* 27.30', +000000.00,
waypoint.23=CPT, V, N51* 29.50', W1* 13.18', +000000.00,
waypoint.24=NORRY, I, N51* 28.78', W1* 7.40', +000000.00,
waypoint.25=EGLL, A, N51* 28.65', W0* 27.68', +000078.74,

 

[srgalahad]

The reasons why the default route planner wants you to visit Alaska while trying a travel over the Atlantic Ocean was never explained.... The default route planner is stupid.

OK, so here it is... there IS NO ROUTE across the North Atlantic using Jet Routes/ High Alt. Airways for the Planner to find.

If, with Jet AIrways showing (the "J" icon at the top) you zoom in to the Planner map ( one or two steps) and follow the airways NEward you will see that all the airways either turn into NA Routes or continue to the eastern edge of the continent and stop. Same on the east side of the pond.... lots of routes form but end just west of Ireland (15deg W). The "logic" that must have entered the MS mind was that since there were no VORs there must not be routes ( no one said computer programmers understood aviation, navigation or had common sense). These routes all end at intersections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

So, it IS possible to make a route...
Select IFR, GPS Direct, but before saving, start zooming in to levels where you can see the navaids and intxns. Drag the route to a navaid or intersection, move east and continue dragging to points (if a list of airways pops up look at the end for the navaids or intxns). Once to get to the eastern end near Nfld. slide across toward Ireland and pick up an entry point for a reasonable UN route into Great Britain and work the same magic through a few navaids to EGLL.

Pain in the seat, YES! but a lot better than the early Comet ( and before) Navigators had to do as they plotted similar Lat/Long routes dependant on forecast winds- I know some Nav's who would spend over an hour doing the plots. Then they flew them via sextant and dead-reconning until they picked up a long-range NDB (or later, LORAN/DECCA site) at the opposite end. Also, for a period there were Ocean Station ships that originally had visual beacons and later included NDBs that were used for navigation aids. IIRC there is a file available to install a few in FS9.

Better find other ways to define a flight plan, like Routefinder, or even FSnav's quasi-successor, FSCommander.

Super Flight Planner is free and works similar to FSNav but not as elegant -> http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=124317 and FS Commander 8.0 -> http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=101352 & upgrade to 8.1 http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=110991

However, considering this is a `historical`recreation of a trip, there`s something to be said for doing it the `hard`way -- and without GPS of course!

Rob

(Ralf, we have done several historical exercises here at the outhouse that you would probably enjoy -like the MacRobertson recreation. Great way to learn Non-GPS navigation. In the most recent there was a 2000nm stretch to be covered without navaids and no-one got lost!)

 

[srgalahad]

Ralf, I edited the post while you may have been reading.. reload it to check

 

[Ralf Roggeveen]

Sorry, but I'm just fed up with everything to do with computers at the moment.

I have succeeded in getting Dave's flightplan into Flightsim documents, but like Willy, can't open it in fs9.

Will keep trying, but afraid I've wasted so much time this weekend, that the flight is unlikely to be completed till next Saturday.

Don't mind a bit of navigation - I've had fun in the '30s with the sextant program! - but, as mentioned before, on a big flight like this it's nice to get the computer to do some of the work that would have been done by the rest of the crew in reality.

Can't even post pictures at the moment, due to trouble with Image Shack. I ran a Reg check recently & have had to reload some BASIC software (the printer, for crying out loud) & do all sorts of annoying tidying up.

It seems ridiculous that something as simple as a high altitude jet flight from NY - London should turn out a SNAFU here - ESPECIALLY AFTER HAVING HAD NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER FOR THE OTHER 20,000 MILES!

Feeling an irrational hatred of the harmless Bill Gates...

But thanks for all your help, everyone; that is much appreciated. If there is some way of ensuring that Dave's PNL will open into Select a Flight, can complete the trip.

 

[Dangerousdave26]

Man that does not make any sense at all.

I created the plan again this time I unchecked "SID" and "Star" and got the same results.



OK heres what you do.

Create the flight in flight planner that routes you by alaska to Heathrow. Then save it with a name that is easy to find.

Now go to that file in your mydocuments/flight simulator files and open it with note pad.

Delete all of the waypoint information.

copy back in all of the waypoint information from my plan.

See if your flight planner can load it.

waypoint.0=KLGA, A, N40* 46.63', W73* 52.36', +000022.97,
waypoint.1=NEWES, I, N40* 51.34', W73* 26.69', +000000.00,
waypoint.2=RAALF, I, N41* 17.86', W72* 47.17', +000000.00,
waypoint.3=PVD, V, N41* 43.46', W71* 25.78', +000000.00,
waypoint.4=BOS, V, N42* 21.45', W70* 59.37', +000000.00,
waypoint.5=ENE, V, N43* 25.54', W70* 36.81', +000000.00,
waypoint.6=ODIKE, I, N44* 40.10', W69* 5.58', +000000.00,
waypoint.7=BGR, V, N44* 50.51', W68* 52.44', +000000.00,
waypoint.8=YSJ59, I, N45* 9.67', W67* 13.22', +000000.00,
waypoint.9=YSJ, V, N45* 24.43', W65* 52.25', +000000.00,
waypoint.10=YYG, V, N46* 17.85', W63* 7.18', +000000.00,
waypoint.11=YQX, V, N48* 53.98', W54* 32.10', +000000.00,
waypoint.12=MALOT, I, N53* 0.00', W15* 0.00', +000000.00,
waypoint.13=BURAK, I, N53* 0.00', W12* 0.00', +000000.00,
waypoint.14=SHA, V, N52* 43.26', W8* 53.11', +000000.00,
waypoint.15=ABAGU, I, N52* 30.20', W7* 38.80', +000000.00,
waypoint.16=DIMUS, I, N52* 14.38', W6* 15.08', +000000.00,
waypoint.17=SLANY, I, N52* 9.52', W5* 50.53', +000000.00,
waypoint.18=STU, V, N51* 59.68', W5* 2.42', +000000.00,
waypoint.19=DIKAS, I, N51* 46.62', W3* 15.55', +000000.00,
waypoint.20=NOSDA, I, N51* 40.30', W2* 28.38', +000000.00,
waypoint.21=BASET, I, N51* 33.83', W1* 42.60', +000000.00,
waypoint.22=KENET, I, N51* 31.23', W1* 27.30', +000000.00,
waypoint.23=CPT, V, N51* 29.50', W1* 13.18', +000000.00,
waypoint.24=NORRY, I, N51* 28.78', W1* 7.40', +000000.00,
waypoint.25=EGLL, A, N51* 28.65', W0* 27.68', +000078.74,

For referance here is the FS Nav generated beginning section of the PNL file

[flightplan]
title=KLGA to EGLL
description=KLGA, EGLL
type=IFR
routetype=1
cruising_altitude=35000
departure_id=KLGA, N40* 46.63', W73* 52.36', +000022.97
departure_position=22
destination_id=EGLL, N51* 28.65', W0* 27.68', +000078.74
departure_name=La Guardia
destination_name=Heathrow

And this is the beginning section when created by Flight Simulator its self.

[flightplan]
AppVersion=9.1.40901
title=KLGA to EGLL
description=KLGA, EGLL
type=IFR
routetype=3
cruising_altitude=31000
departure_id=KLGA, N40* 46.17', W73* 53.03', +000021.99
departure_position=4
destination_id=EGLL, N51* 28.65', W0* 29.32', +000080.00
departure_name=La Guardia
destination_name=Heathrow

I am not sure why it being different would cause it not to load.

I don't have any Nav aid mods installed do you?

Thats the only thing that I can think of that would prevent it from loading.

It must be some kind of conflict :ques:

 

[Ashaman]

The "logic" that must have entered the MS mind was that since there were no VORs there must not be routes ( no one said computer programmers understood aviation, navigation or had common sense)

Allow me please to state that I never called anyone stupid, only the result of their work. But even if my words might be stretched that far, if someone doesn't know what he's doing and yet wants to be recognized AND PAID for it, being called stupid is the very least he or she might expect. Because being stupid means exactly that one lacks the common sense of not doing what one isn't competent in.

Of course programmers don't have an obligation to learn about aviation and navigation procedures... as long they don't start programming a whatever software that needs and uses those things... if they do, they should feel the need to at the very least learn the basics, IMHO, and instead here we are, speaking about surgeons that make a open heart surgery without even knowing of which part of the patient is the head and which are the feet.

If anyone of us, on our work, worked like those people have done, and still are as we speak... by now we would be job-less, and they instead had to wait for a depression in the global market the size of the one we're living to bemoan pitifully the fact they can't go playing golf with the same frequency like before.

Maybe they are good (and marginally at that) only in coding animations for elephants and giraffes?

Really I have no word to express what I think of them... at least not words that could be used in polite company.

 

[Wing_Z]

I love my Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004: A Century of Flight, and I also love those clever blokes who wrote it - bugs and all.
Gives us something to talk about in the forums, and figure out workarounds.
By this time next year, this software will be perfect :d:d:d