Rules for AI flight plans?

[OBIO]

I am in the initial (ver initial) stage of developing my own airline. Don't even have a name for it yet, but I do know that it will be based on smaller prop driven aircraft (Beech Baron 58, Beechcraft King Airs, Cessna 208s, de Havilland Twin Otters maybe) with a few smaller jets thrown in for the longer routes. Most of the planes will be the freeware HTAI models with a few other makers in the mix as well. Coverage will be the Great Lakes Basin (Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan mainly with some flights going into Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and New York). I haven't selected the airports yets...but my airline head quarters will be at the regional type airports, not the major airports like Port Columbus, Cleveland-Hopkins International. More like Mansfield Lahm Regional, airports of decent size, but not the big big ones.

I will start out with flights from one Ohio regional airport to another to get the hang of AI planning. Say Mansfield Lahm to Greater Portsmouth Regional to Greene County-Lewis A. Jackson Regional and then back to Mansfield Lahm. Basically a commuter airline type of deal. Over time I will expand my area of operations to include flights to regional airports in other states...both passenger and cargo.

What are the rules of AI flight planning? I know that airports have to have parking places of the type and size for the planes that are going to take off and land there (Ramp GA small, Ramp GA medium, Mil Cargo...that sort of stuff), and they have to have taxiways linking the parking areas and the runways (since I will be working with the medium sized regional airports, I am sure the stock airports are sufficiently set up to handle my fledgling air line).

So, what are the rules for doing AI flight planning? Especially the one about having to return to the airport from where it took off.

OBIO

 

[Wing_Z]

What are the rules of AI flight planning?

OK you probably know that is a very big question indeed...
People who've been doing AI for years suddenly learn stuff they didn't know they didn't know, all the time.

Suffice to say: it all starts with Lee Swordy's AFCAD and Traffic Tools programmes.
Relying on stock airports is dangerous, check each one you want to use with AFCAD to make sure it can handle your AI.
All flights are Round Robins; if you read the excellent readme's for these 2 programmes, you will have a grasp of how to build yourself an AI fleet.

But wait! Nigel is ready to pounce.. go here:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...twisted-SIMPLE-AI-Flight-Planner-STEP-by-STEP

 

[Mick]

Yeah, once you read through the instructions that came with Traffic Tools and AFCAD you'll know pretty much everything you need. In fact, you'll know almost all there is to know about AI.

Remember that AI planes have to spend some time on the ground between landing and take-off, and that you need at allow a bit more for taxi, holding, and so on. I think the one item in those instructions that I would change is that they underestimate this. I'd suggest allowing twenty minutes on the ground minimum, maybe half an hour to be sure. If a flight plan doesn't allow for enough time on the ground, the plane won't land - it will just execute a missed approach and depart on the next leg. If a plane can't get to the runway in time for its leg to start, it will just disappear. (Poof! Gone!)

Note that your planes don't all have to actually fly a route to show activity at your airport. You can have a plane stay at one airport and just take off, fly a circuit and land every once in a while. Or you can even have it do touch and goes. You can also have a plane just stick around to populate your ramps, by creating a flight plan where it just flies a circuit once a week at a time when you won't be flying in the sim, like 4:00 AM on Tuesdays, or something like that. Remember that each flight must have two legs, even if they start and end at the same airport (that's in the instructions.)

For example, in my "FS1954, A Half Century of Flight," at my local Air Guard base I have an F-51 that takes off, flys a circuit and lands every hour or so (I forget the exact frequency), another one doing touch and goes, and one or two that just sit parked on the ramp. There's also a T-6 that just sits on the ramp. It gives the impression of a busy ANG base without a whole bunch of planes. None of the planes actually go anywhere, but you can't tell that unless you follow one of them.

If you have a ton of AI planes you can run into some annoying issues. For one, it can get really tiresome waiting for a chance to take off or land. And if you have too much AI, it can choke FS9 and shut it down. Keep in mind that FS renders all AI planes within 40 miles of your location, whether or not you can actually see them. The load on the program, and on your confuter, can get real big real fast. Your nice new confuter might be able to handle a big load, but your old FS program might not.

Beware - creating and tweaking AI will make you just as crazy as painting and tweaking airplanes!

 

[OBIO]

I'm going to hold off on my personal virtual air company for a while. Seems that most of the airports I picked to be the hubs for my operation all need AFCAD work to be usable.

In the mean time, I am going to work on my GA AI situation. I am using the World GA traffic file from Flightsim.com....it really does improve the GA ai, but only so far. Still relies just on the stock planes as AI. Which means I see 3 C-172s, 3 C-182s, 1 King Air 350, 1 Baron 58, 1 J3 Cub, a few C-208s, 3 Piper Pa-28s. Lots more of them doing more interesting flights...but it gets pretty darn boring seeing the same 15 GA planes every place.

So, I have gathered together a slew of dedicated GA ai planes. Beech BA55 and 58, Cessna 152, 172, and 182, Cessna T303 Commander, a Maule, Piper Archer 3, Arrow, Cherokee, Saratoga, Seminole, Seneca, Warrior. A new ai J3 Cub along with an L4A and a PA-18 Super Cub. A Texan and Harvard pack. A DHC-2 Beaver. Aero Commander 680.

I am going to de-compile the World GA traffic file and revamp it to use all of these new AI planes instead of the stock stuff. In the flight plans, were the original C172 entries are...those will be replaced with the AI 152, 172, 182, Beech 36, Maule. The entries for the stock 182 will be replaced with some of the single engine Pipers. The stock Baron 58 entries will be replaced with the new AI Beech 55 and 58 and some of the new smaller twin engine stuff. The stock King Air 350 will be replaced with a mix of similar size twins....like the HTAI Twin Otter.

This project is going to take me quite a while...as I have to make sure that all the parking codes are set the same as the stock stuff, have to get all the planes set up with Shockwave lights and improved effects and make sure all the paints are in place and void of painted on reg numbers.

Heck, I'll even have a Yak-52 AI in the mix.

This is what I wanted from the get go....a much more diverse GA ai set up. I want to see lots of different planes in the air and on the ground.

OBIO

 

[Terry]

Tim,

Suggestion for you. What I found works well for me is a master flight plan and master AI aircraft list. I attached them as an example. Using this you can modify what flys at each airport with ease. Just plug in the plane numbers, airport ID, and modify times to suit. It's set for 20 flights but is easy to reduce. I leave all AI set to 1% so they will always fly. I went through the default plan and made sure everything was set to 2% or above. If you do not want any default planes flying keep the slider at 1%. This works great for Golden Wings where you only want old aircraft.

 

[Victory103]

Highly recommend the payware Cessna singles package from HTAI. I forgot what my stock AI look like with all my AI packages, not a single stocker flies in my sim thanks to mainly World fo AI and PAI, along with the Ultimate GA collections. Just added a few more biz/light jets with the SBAI Citation Mustang and Beech Premier to complement the Lear/Hawker/Citation/Gulfstream/Challenger jet packages. Some good AI Pipers out as well that are roaming my FS skies, all purpose built AI models.

 

[OBIO]

A few direct questions:

1) The stock Cessna 208 Amphib...are any of its take offs and landings on water, or it is totally land based?

2) Do AI aircraft in FS9 operate like the AI in CFS2....unlimited fuel? Or do they run out of fuel? I will be doing a ton of swapping of AI aircraft...out with the stock planes, in with replacements....and not sure if I should use the air and config file info from the stockers to make sure that the replacement planes have the same range.

For example, I will be dumping the default Cessna 172 with it 3 crappy paints and replacing it with 3 different AI aircraft:

Cessna 172 (3 paints)
Cessna 152 (3 paints)
Beechcraft V35 Bonanza (3 paints)

Do I have to worry about fuel capacity and range if I use the fde sets that come with these AI birds? I know I have to adjust the settings for speed to match the stock 172 so that these planes will reach their destinations on time.

3) Should I pull the FDE from the stockers and use them in the replacement AI so that the speeds of the aircraft are the same. I know that this will result in some of the new AI not performing to real life spec...but since they are just eye candy, that is not that big of an issue for me.

OBIO

 

[rdaniell]

AC#10,90,"AI ALPHA Albatross D.III Jasta 11"

OBIO, that number is the cruising speed of the aircraft. You will have to modify that number in each different type airplane. I usually use a little higher number that what the POH states. I have never noticed that it make a lot of difference.

Romeo-Delta

 

[OBIO]

RD---after I read (skimmed to be more precise) the documentation that came with Traffic Tools, I fould out what the second number was for. Thanks for chiming in though.

If I set the Reference Data for the AI Cessna 152 to match the default C-172, then I should be good to go on the times in the flight plan file?...I do not want to have to adjust an entire world's worth of departure and arrival times.

OBIO

 

[rdaniell]

RD---after I read (skimmed to be more precise) the documentation that came with Traffic Tools, I fould out what the second number was for. Thanks for chiming in though. If I set the Reference Data for the AI Cessna 152 to match the default C-172, then I should be good to go on the times in the flight plan file?...I do not want to have to adjust an entire world's worth of departure and arrival times. OBIO

That should work just fine. IIRC, when you recompile the traffic file, it will take care of all that for you. Good luck.

Romeo-Delta

 

[Wing_Z]

OBIO, See comments in red below:

A few direct questions:
1) The stock Cessna 208 Amphib...are any of its take offs and landings on water, or it is totally land based?
Land, never saw a MS stocker on water, anywhere.
It is possible to create a water AFCAD but you need to watch a few things: zero width (concrete) runways + taxiways, landing effects in the plane set so as not to spark!
2) Do AI aircraft in FS9 operate like the AI in CFS2....unlimited fuel?
No fuel limit
3) Should I pull the FDE from the stockers and use them in the replacement AI so that the speeds of the aircraft are the same.
No, if you don't need authentic AI performance. As rd said, speed is all you'd want to adjust, and that's done in aircraft.txt of the traffic file already.
OBIO

 

[Desert Rat]

Obio,

do a search on Flightsim/Avsim for David 'Opa' Marshall, he has a pack for the stock floater Cessna bus. also shows you how to do it so you canadd any others you like, and ships, etc. I'd recommend a blanket search and download of all of the great late David's stuff. Tips, tutorials and general good stuff, well worth the time and effort.

a sad and great loss to the community,
Jamie

 

[modelr]

Guys, the aircraft cruise speed is read from the aircraft's cfg. When changing aircraft in a file, make sure they match. However, most of the problems will only show if you follow the entire flight. However, don't follow them entirely in the air. Watch the takeoff from the ground, then go to the arrival airport and watch them there. Following the entire flight will often cause the AI engine to do weird stuff, like not landing, or doing a pass and disappearing. Frustrating.

I use the GA-Traffic program to convert, as it can reduce most textures, and copies/makes new folder, and rewrites the cfg as necessary. You can also choose to substitute one of the stock airfile/cfgs if necessary, when converting. Easiest way to do conversions I've come across yet.
ga-traffic_setup.zip

Water borne aircraft will work on water runways, there are lot's of them available for download now, and with a little practice, making them seems easy. However, AMPHIBIOUS aircraft, will always land with the gear extended. If that doesn't bother you, they work well. Some developers have made models with both types, (including Henry Tomkewiz's payware Cessnas,) one model gear down (dry) and gear up (wet.) What is done there, is the flightplan is written so there are two flights, one type taking off, the other type landing, (or opposite.) Henry's pack comes with flightplans, and an explanation on how to make them for these. Henry's pack is the best $10 add-on you'll buy anywhere. Hands down. (He was working on an equivilent Piper Single Engine pack when he mysteriously disappeared. His site is still up and working, and the pack is still available, but he doesn't answer any inquiries or posts on his forum.) His military and other GA aircraft, (MANY MANY) are some of the most used by all the packagers and repainters. He does give full permission for painting in his readmes. His models are available on all the big sites, as well as on his site. http://htai-models.com/index.html

Some of the Cessnas even tow banners realistically. And you can put your own message on the banners.

 

[Wing_Z]

Guys, the aircraft cruise speed is read from the aircraft's cfg...

You're quite right, and this is proving to be a good revision exercise!
I always use the manufacturer's quoted speed in the aircraft.txt file but correctly it should match the aircraft.cfg entry for cruise speed.
From the TT readme:
This number is used only by the compiler to compute the trip time for the flight so it can come up with arrival times and sector mapping for flight plans

Following the entire flight will often cause the AI engine to do weird stuff, like not landing, or doing a pass and disappearing

You should be able to follow a flight if all the flightplan parameters are good.
Generally I find it's OK to follow AI, up to the turn onto finals.
But if you are still in the picture it is going to assume you have preference to land.
The AI engine then must try to invent something which looks like the intended flightplan... with sometimes strange results.

 

[OBIO]

Here in a week or so, I am going to begin swapping out all of the default AI planes with dedicated AI planes...and add in more variety by substituting new planes in place of the stock ones:

Default C172 will be replaced with dedicated AI C-172, C-152 and Beech V35 Bonanza. Default C182 will be replaced by AI C-182, Maule M6, Piper Archer and Beech V36 Bonanza.

When I am done replacing all the stock GA AI in this manner instead of having just 9 GA AI planes, I will have 31 GA planes in my AI line up, with each plane having 3 paint variations....a total of 93 different GA AIs populating my skies.

Part of the process will be making sure that all the replacement planes have the same Reference Data as the stock GA AI planes. Will simply copy the Reference Data from the stock AI config files and paste in the config files of the replacement planes. This may end up with some of the AI being faster or slower than real specs, but since they are just air space filler, that does not matter at all.

OBIO

 

[rdaniell]

A Salute to OBIO and Matt...

OBIO, due to your starting this thread, I've gotten back into messing with AI. I now have all of the airports and farm strips that I usually fly from populated with most of the aircraft that actually are stationed at them.

Matt, thanks to your generosity in building some scenery objects at my request, I now also have the airports and farm strips about as close as you can get in the virtual world of FS9.

Salute! :salute:

Romeo-Delta

 

[Wing_Z]

Looking for a Guinea Pig

I've always generated my own flight plans, because they generally were designed to fit a need at some airport.
But, if you simply want to populate the skies with stuff, this might be worth a look at flightsim:

FS2004 (ACOF) - Misc.FS2004 GA-Traffic 1.0
[SIZE=-1][ Download | View ][/SIZE]
Name: gatraffi.zip Size: 7,836,714 Date: 05-01-2004 Downloads: 8,416
[SIZE=-1]FS2004 GA-Traffic 1.0. GA-Traffic is the first fully automatic general aviation (GA) traffic generator for FS2004. Features: Generate GA traffic for every installed airport of the whole FS2004 world at once; Fully automatic detection of installed planes and airports; Simulate different GA traffic behavior; 'Virtual landing fees' unique algorithm to avoid GA traffic generation on busy commercial airports; Amphibian planes used only near seaports; Amount of plane usage selectable for every livery; Different plane usage (taxi, business, rental, student, club and private) selectable for every livery; Unique 'Make AI' function to reduce the texture size of add-on planes to hold the frames per second up.; Proofed aircraft files for correct AI flying behavior; Integrated TrafficTools from Lee Swordy, no need to manual generate the traffic files. By Markus Brunner.[/SIZE]