Some Ju88's
- Thread starter NachtPiloten
- Start date
thunder100
Charter Member 2010
Hi
Looks splendid
Would it be at all possible once you are finished and happy to do an P3D-FSX native-FSX normal-CFS2 output as well ?
In That world we only have a bit elderly Ju-88's and with above base it could be moved to P3D/FSX
Thanks a lot for even thinking about it
Best regards
Roland
Looks splendid
Would it be at all possible once you are finished and happy to do an P3D-FSX native-FSX normal-CFS2 output as well ?
In That world we only have a bit elderly Ju-88's and with above base it could be moved to P3D/FSX
Thanks a lot for even thinking about it
Best regards
Roland
sixstrings5859
Charter Member
Looks Fantastic ! Excited to see these excellently done night fighters ! B.C. beware !Lol ! Regards,Scott
Radar
Yes, the FuG220 at first did lack short range accuracy, so either the FuG212 was fully retained, or one post was kept. The induced drag cost the planes an additional 20 kph, compared to about 20 -30 kph loss with just the Fug220 alone. Add the Flensburg 227 and well the planes might have lost 55-60 kph, which of course will be modeled into the airfiles. An A4 flew at about 290-300 mph, add the aerials and a FuG212 equipped C6 was at best 275-280 mph, FuG 220 R1 which was about the same speed potential so 270-275, add all the posts 260-265, an R2 with just the FuG220 285-290. Now Brown did fly a g1 without aerials and achieved 400 mph, so given the drag of 30 or so kph, could the G1 really fly at 382? well given that the G1 was no ammo, no aerials, and minus a crew member and possibly radar equipment and no mention of fuel, so......maybe in real loadout 360-370 for the G1. Who knows.. right!
We will see what I can find over at ww2aircraft.net or the Luftwaffe archives. May need to take a trip to Udvar-Hazy...oh the labor.
Yes, the FuG220 at first did lack short range accuracy, so either the FuG212 was fully retained, or one post was kept. The induced drag cost the planes an additional 20 kph, compared to about 20 -30 kph loss with just the Fug220 alone. Add the Flensburg 227 and well the planes might have lost 55-60 kph, which of course will be modeled into the airfiles. An A4 flew at about 290-300 mph, add the aerials and a FuG212 equipped C6 was at best 275-280 mph, FuG 220 R1 which was about the same speed potential so 270-275, add all the posts 260-265, an R2 with just the FuG220 285-290. Now Brown did fly a g1 without aerials and achieved 400 mph, so given the drag of 30 or so kph, could the G1 really fly at 382? well given that the G1 was no ammo, no aerials, and minus a crew member and possibly radar equipment and no mention of fuel, so......maybe in real loadout 360-370 for the G1. Who knows.. right!
We will see what I can find over at ww2aircraft.net or the Luftwaffe archives. May need to take a trip to Udvar-Hazy...oh the labor.
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
Don't you mean profile (i.e. parasite), vice induced drag? However, the weight of the system would increase induced drag as well -
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Mike - not an aeronautical engineer type, but what is the difference between parasite and induced drag? I imagine parasite has to do with the features of a plane that interfere with airflow, such as antenna, external loadout (bombs, fuel tanks, etc) but induced drag?
Thanks,
Ted
Induced drag, is the drag created when an aircraft manoeuvres or climbs ie it disrupts the airflow causing or inducing drag, which obviously slows the ac.......
Ted,
Your previous post about guess-timates of speed loss, I think they're pretty close.
Everybody thinks an ac should do the manufacturers max speed...but in reality they rarely do. Also exceedingly rarely would a pilot get absolute top speed out their ac, not if they wanted to have any fuel or any engines left! I have read about Heinz Rokker, chasing after bomber streams over Germany, and on landing had to have two new engines, as they were completely knackered from holding high speeds.
Also read lots of ORBs from NF Mossie Sqn's, and often they state enemy ac was doing in the region of 150-180mph, others mention about giving up a long chase as they couldn't catch them..G1/G6 88's and He219s possibly?
Cheers
Shessi
Ted,
Your previous post about guess-timates of speed loss, I think they're pretty close.
Everybody thinks an ac should do the manufacturers max speed...but in reality they rarely do. Also exceedingly rarely would a pilot get absolute top speed out their ac, not if they wanted to have any fuel or any engines left! I have read about Heinz Rokker, chasing after bomber streams over Germany, and on landing had to have two new engines, as they were completely knackered from holding high speeds.
Also read lots of ORBs from NF Mossie Sqn's, and often they state enemy ac was doing in the region of 150-180mph, others mention about giving up a long chase as they couldn't catch them..G1/G6 88's and He219s possibly?
Cheers
Shessi
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
Total drag is composed of induced and parasite drag.
Parasite drag is caused by the skin friction and cross sectional average area of the head on "flat plate" area, as well as disturbances at intersecting parts, etc.
Profile drag increases with the SQUARE of the velocity, so at higher speeds even a small increase in speed creates a significant increase in parasite drag.
Induced drag is only due to angle of attack. Since weight requires a higher AoA at any particular speed, induced drag varies with weight. It also increases with the SQUARE of the velocity, but typically much less effect than profile drag because in level flight, increased speed results in a lower AoA.
In summary: at low speeds, induced drag (hi AoA) predominates. At cruise and higher speeds, profile drag is the biggest factor.
Shessi and Mike - thanks!
I think that I might try the following. In the xpd's for weapons there is an entry called drag. If I made a fake loadout say for the aerials and made it a weapon, then fiddled with the drag entry and mass, maybe I could reduce speed this way.....
I think that I might try the following. In the xpd's for weapons there is an entry called drag. If I made a fake loadout say for the aerials and made it a weapon, then fiddled with the drag entry and mass, maybe I could reduce speed this way.....
MajorMagee
SOH-CM-2022
Why not just make it part of the air file for each specific configuration?
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
That could easily work, BUT: I am not familiar with CFS, but downloading one of the planes I see an aircraft configuration (cfg file), with an entry for
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0
These control the scale factor for the total drag as discussed. Fiddle with the parasite drag scalar only, see how it works
This might provide some idea of what I am talking about:
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Ted,
That's exactly how I would do it in CFS2, CFS3 almost the same. Something like a 1.2 to 1.5 on parasitic drag will take off about 5-10 kph or so.
The cruise lift scalar is not about drag but the pitch of the ac when at cruise/max speed, which also combines with CoG.
Don't be tempted into using - or negative amounts with drag, to gain speed, as this can haves odd and bad effects!
Cheers
Shessi
That's exactly how I would do it in CFS2, CFS3 almost the same. Something like a 1.2 to 1.5 on parasitic drag will take off about 5-10 kph or so.
The cruise lift scalar is not about drag but the pitch of the ac when at cruise/max speed, which also combines with CoG.
Don't be tempted into using - or negative amounts with drag, to gain speed, as this can haves odd and bad effects!
Cheers
Shessi
why because....
I just want to try it. I have modeled in previous planes limits to top speed based on some of this data. But since I never have done this before, I just figured why not give it a go. This way you could have a C6 with a top speed of 490 kph, then add enough drag on the aerials as a loadout to reduce top speed by 30-40 kph. I think it would be fun to do this and if then you make the aerials a weapon or pylon (did this for the FW 190 and Bf109 Wide Sau planes over at Reg's Hanger (shameless plug)). If it works cool, if not no harm.
I just want to try it. I have modeled in previous planes limits to top speed based on some of this data. But since I never have done this before, I just figured why not give it a go. This way you could have a C6 with a top speed of 490 kph, then add enough drag on the aerials as a loadout to reduce top speed by 30-40 kph. I think it would be fun to do this and if then you make the aerials a weapon or pylon (did this for the FW 190 and Bf109 Wide Sau planes over at Reg's Hanger (shameless plug)). If it works cool, if not no harm.
Mike,
Hmm, I could model a C6 or R1/2 (0r any plane for that matter) with top speeds without the aerials. Then go back a fiddle with the parasite drag figure to reduce speed to the limit I want....hmmm sounds straight forward enough.
tsk
Shessi
Thanks for the starting figures, will make it easier to get the speed I am looking for.
tsk
Thanks for the starting figures, will make it easier to get the speed I am looking for.
tsk