Some thoughts on MSFS 2020

jmig

SOH-CM-2024
During the early days of flight simulation through FSX/PD3 I wished for greater accuracy with the models and avionics. Now, maybe, I am in a “Beware of what you wish for” situation.

Perhaps, it is my advanced age and resulting loss of mental acuity? Perhaps, it is the complexity of my homemade cockpit with almost one hundred knobs and switches, along with three Wingwin and both Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo controllers? Perhaps, it is the greater and greater compulsion by developers to make every detail, down to the paint chip number, fonts and systems operation perfect? More likely it is a combination of all the above.

Regardless of the cause. I find myself spending more time setting control bindings than flying. And after setting up the controls to match the airplane, I have difficulty in remembering what does what from one airplane to the next.

It used to be I had one switch that would auto start the engine. Now, I have to go through a complex routine of flipping a dozen switches, watching gauges for when to introduce fuel in hopes the engine will start.

Autopilots used to be simple. You turned it on and set altitude and heading, or nav. When arriving, you lined up with the runway and hit approach. Now, I have three advanced airplanes all using the KAS297B to adjust altitude. I have to assign different bindings to do the same thing with each airplane AND the darn Lvars don’t always work.

Or I can fly one of the “Glass” cockpits with features that can’t be set to outside controllers. This results in trying to use a mouse to turn a knob that is impossible to turn and trying to fly the airplane at the same time. Very unrealistic.

All of this has me turning back to the simpler aircraft, hello Carenado, DCDesigns, and GAS. I have quit buying new aircraft. Why should I spend money on something I won’t be flying anyway. I am trying to find maybe three or four airplanes in different categories that I can settle on and just fly them.

Currently, I am considering the GAS Stearman 75, The Just Flight T1 Hawk or Dion’s Goshawk, a light twin, and Carenado’s PC12. I love SWS and their products. However, I have had issues with getting their PC12 to work. So, even though they have a more realistic aircraft, I can fly the Carenado.

Maybe 2024 will simplify the controller settings? Four or five different throttle settings is just too much for me. Developing standard controller functions to replace the growing number of Lvars and Hvars will go a long way to making it simpler to set up and fly and airplane. It might also allow me to setup controllers without having to use three different third party apps.

Maybe developers should have simple and realistic flight models. One could be the DCDesign and Carenado style flight models and the other the SWS and Black Square flight models. That way someone could just fly and enjoy the airplane. Then if they want to get more realistic, they switch to the advanced flight model.

These are just musing from and old man. I am interested in your thoughts.
 
I think the one thing that has saved flight simming for a wider audience is exactly the kind of flexibility you are describing.
If it had all gone the route of maximum extreme realism, many of us would have folded our hand and moved on. If it was all arcade and simplified, there would be no need to parse and purchase the complex peripherals and make two hobbies out of one.
I'm glad that xBox users are now a part of the fray because that should keep things flexible going forward.
The best solutions I believe, are the ones that are more inclusive than exclusive - to boil it down
 
I also tend to fly more Cold War era aircraft for the same reason, simplicity. Powerful, go fast, and loud fighter & attack aircraft.
 
An option should be offered. Want the full cold and dark, select it before flight. Wat to simply get in the plane and go flying, select it before flight.

Priller
 
Just one thing about the controls setup: from my side, despite switching from my old Sidewinder FFB2 to a Thrustmaster Airbus stick+quadrant, I have never set any specific controls on it.
The reason is simple, and it's the same as the one you mentioned: I have a hard time remember which function I had assigned to this or that button.
So I don't use buttons. I click on the buttons in the virtual cockpit as I used to do back in FS9, FSX, P3D and XPlane. And I'm happy with that :)

Regarding starting the plane, as far as I know, CRTL+E still works on most of them. And if you choose any starting position other than a parking, the plane will be already ON when you enter the cockpit.
 
An option should be offered. Want the full cold and dark, select it before flight. Wat to simply get in the plane and go flying, select it before flight.

Priller
If you spawn on the runway, you'll be configured for takeoff - at least on the defaults. It's up to the dev's to make that happen with the different *.flt files included with their planes.

I'm in a strange place with MSFS myself. The systems modelling is brilliant, even on the stock planes. But that means exponentially more complexity too. In FS9, I could call up the stock 747, smack Ctrl+E, and be ready to taxi in just a couple of minutes. Now you have to spend 20-30 minutes programming the FMS before you even think about starting the APU, getting the electrics and hydraulics online, and countless other details. That's why I've given up on flying the heavy tubes and now stick to GA. The biggest thing I currently fly is the HondaJet. With the real thing being single-pilot certified, the systems automation in the sim offering is quite nice and lets me fire up the plane, set a -D> destination, and have a nice relaxing flight.
 
If you spawn on the runway, you'll be configured for takeoff - at least on the defaults. It's up to the dev's to make that happen with the different *.flt files included with their planes.
I know that. But it would be nice to be able to do as in the legacy sims start anywhere you want where ctrl+E gets you going. And all planes I own are fully running when I start a flight on the runway.

Priller
 
The one thing that is starting to bug me is the constant need to update everything on a daily basis. Even the freeware scenery designers find the need to keep updating the most simple airfields because it changes the logo on an avgas tank in the back of a shed.
 
The one thing that is starting to bug me is the constant need to update everything on a daily basis. Even the freeware scenery designers find the need to keep updating the most simple airfields because it changes the logo on an avgas tank in the back of a shed.
You're not wrong, but that was funny! (the way you said it)

Priller
 
If you spawn on the runway, you'll be configured for takeoff - at least on the defaults. It's up to the dev's to make that happen with the different *.flt files included with their planes.

I'm in a strange place with MSFS myself. The systems modelling is brilliant, even on the stock planes. But that means exponentially more complexity too. In FS9, I could call up the stock 747, smack Ctrl+E, and be ready to taxi in just a couple of minutes. Now you have to spend 20-30 minutes programming the FMS before you even think about starting the APU, getting the electrics and hydraulics online, and countless other details. That's why I've given up on flying the heavy tubes and now stick to GA. The biggest thing I currently fly is the HondaJet. With the real thing being single-pilot certified, the systems automation in the sim offering is quite nice and lets me fire up the plane, set a -D> destination, and have a nice relaxing flight.
I get your feeling, but if I'm not mistaken, nothing prevents you from flying the 747 exactly in the same way as you flew the one in FS9 or FSX, right ?
The programming of the FMS is not mandatory in the sim at least. The autopilot panel will still work with manually input numbers by rotating buttons, you just need to ensure you have selected the correct mode....
I mean, most of the times, my programming of the FMS is incomplete and/or incorrect anyways, and I always have to get back to "traditionnal" simple non-FMS autopilot mode because the plane won't follow the road anyways :D
 
I have exited FSX nearly a year ago, and currently simless, waiting for the new sim. In FSX, I only comfortably learned to fly the RealAir props - Duke, T-Duke, and Lancair. This served me well flying around Vancouver, Orbx's PNW, and down into KMRY, KPSP and Big Bear region. This was my main 'go to' region 70% of the time.

It's (virtually) impossible to learn and be proficient in flying everything that's currently out there so I figure I'll have more fun learning a small handful of aircraft that interest me, as opposed to trying to 'master' others due only to 'curiosity'. I have invested a lot in FSX scenery addons, so 'low and slow' did it for me in FSX as I am sure it will in FS2024. I am, however looking forward to the Vision Jet as it may well be one step up from the props and faster. Definitely no tubeliners, and their steep learning curve for me. YMMV, as always.

As far as the Thrustmaster goes, I plan on mapping only the stick and learning the stick first. Then I will investigate the buttons on the throttle as I have never been great at learning in stereo, lol ! :biggrin-new:
 
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During the early days of flight simulation through FSX/PD3 I wished for greater accuracy with the models and avionics. Now, maybe, I am in a “Beware of what you wish for” situation.

Perhaps, it is my advanced age and resulting loss of mental acuity? Perhaps, it is the complexity of my homemade cockpit with almost one hundred knobs and switches, along with three Wingwin and both Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo controllers? Perhaps, it is the greater and greater compulsion by developers to make every detail, down to the paint chip number, fonts and systems operation perfect? More likely it is a combination of all the above.

Regardless of the cause. I find myself spending more time setting control bindings than flying. And after setting up the controls to match the airplane, I have difficulty in remembering what does what from one airplane to the next.

It used to be I had one switch that would auto start the engine. Now, I have to go through a complex routine of flipping a dozen switches, watching gauges for when to introduce fuel in hopes the engine will start.

Autopilots used to be simple. You turned it on and set altitude and heading, or nav. When arriving, you lined up with the runway and hit approach. Now, I have three advanced airplanes all using the KAS297B to adjust altitude. I have to assign different bindings to do the same thing with each airplane AND the darn Lvars don’t always work.

Or I can fly one of the “Glass” cockpits with features that can’t be set to outside controllers. This results in trying to use a mouse to turn a knob that is impossible to turn and trying to fly the airplane at the same time. Very unrealistic.

All of this has me turning back to the simpler aircraft, hello Carenado, DCDesigns, and GAS. I have quit buying new aircraft. Why should I spend money on something I won’t be flying anyway. I am trying to find maybe three or four airplanes in different categories that I can settle on and just fly them.

Currently, I am considering the GAS Stearman 75, The Just Flight T1 Hawk or Dion’s Goshawk, a light twin, and Carenado’s PC12. I love SWS and their products. However, I have had issues with getting their PC12 to work. So, even though they have a more realistic aircraft, I can fly the Carenado.

Maybe 2024 will simplify the controller settings? Four or five different throttle settings is just too much for me. Developing standard controller functions to replace the growing number of Lvars and Hvars will go a long way to making it simpler to set up and fly and airplane. It might also allow me to setup controllers without having to use three different third party apps.

Maybe developers should have simple and realistic flight models. One could be the DCDesign and Carenado style flight models and the other the SWS and Black Square flight models. That way someone could just fly and enjoy the airplane. Then if they want to get more realistic, they switch to the advanced flight model.

These are just musing from and old man. I am interested in your thoughts.
Interesting post/question.

As likely the most recent person to join the MSFS crew out of the "regulars," mine is likely the least reliable perspective to consider listening to, but here goes.

I found FSX - and especially P3D - really opened up the potential for complex sims. For my interests, SWS and Milviz (their F-4s in particular, SWS's carriers) truly pushed the boundaries of simulation. Which was fun - until that same complexity broke down, and at least in the case of both of those devs, I found the support for them never kept pace with new versions of the sims. The amount of time I spent trying to get their proprietary features to work grew exponentially, the time I spent actually flying shrank proportionately. Recommended "fixes" were piecemeal erratic in "fixing" the problems, for the nearly the entirety of my time in P3D, their products became unusable.

By contrast, there were other devs who perhaps aimed a bit lower in the scope of complexity - but managed to hit a sweet spot between fidelity, complexity, and uptime. IFE (F-14D, F-35) Razbam, (A-7 and Harriers) fit the bill for payware, and FSXBA Hornet, Restauravia/RFN F-8 and Etendard for freeware, to name a few. Their stuff simply .... worked. Period. And as my career and family commitments grew, the decreasing amount of time for sim time meant that uptime became critical for me. I just don't have the time in a 50-60 hour work week that often involves international travel to then come home and fight recalcitrant software code. I just can't.

So when I got a new PC, and MSFS a few months back and started looking at what products would best fit my type of flying - I was very leery of what expensive payware to consider. I dipped my toe with the IFE T-45, the Miltech carriers ... and I feel these represent the sweet spot of payware for me. Their stuff works reliably, and satisfactorily, at least within the confines of what carriers can do in MSFS (that's for the thread I started on the topic). I'm thinking of the IFE Tomcat and Tornado, and perhaps the DC Harrier, but little else at least for now. The DC Legacy Hornet and Natalli Super Hornet/Growler products are pretty splendid for freeware, and apart from a few missing features (fuel dump, more accurate MFD functionality), I feel they more than sufficiently scratch the glass-cockpit fighter itch.

My hope, however faint, is that some of my FSX/P3D Cold-war era favourites will get modelled, but I'll certainly be wary of payware for the complexity concerns alluded to earlier, and the proclivity for breakage due to the frequent MSFS updates. Overall, an addon that delivers reliable performance, even if not infinite complexity / immersion matters more to me these days.
 
On my Christmas list for MS2024 (and MS2020 Dev Upgrades) would be a peripheral binding more like what DCS uses. By that I mean you select throttle 1 and assign it to your left throttle, throttle 2 goes to your right throttle. No more six different throttle settings and, or Lvar throttles.

Another thing I have noticed recently, and wish removed, are multiple controllers set to the same function conflicting. An example is the flaps switch. I have a flap switch on the Honeycomb Bravo for use when flying GA aircraft. I have a flap switch on my left next to the Wingwin throttle assembly for use when flying military jets. I used to be able to assign each one to flaps and they didn’t conflict. Not anymore. I have noticed on some complex aircraft that with the lefthand throttle flaps switch up, I have no control of the Bravo flap handle. It somehow overrides the Bravo switch. This used to not happen.

I currently use three different add-on apps to set bindings, outside of MSFS. I don’t like to use the MSFS control settings, unless I only use that function for every airplane. For instance, external lighting bindings seems to be “mostly” universal. I can assign the strobe light in MSFS and it will work for just about every airplane. However, I don’t want to have to go into the Options/Controls and change it for each and every airplane. So I use FSUIPC, Lobry’s Axis and Ohs, and more recently Spad.next.

FSUIPC is what I have been using forever. It is a good solid app. Axis and Ohs is a graphical app with an easy to use UI. It is also the easiest application to change one function’s controller binding to another controller. It along with FSUIPC have some powerful features under the hood, if you are willing to read the manuals and experiment.

Spad,next is easily the most powerful app. However, it is also the most complicated. It allows you to download profiles that will automatically populate your controller with functions to switches or axis. However, it is impossible to change the functions without delving into the xml/lua code. I find it too difficult for this old man and only use it to find lvars and check if a controller switch is working.

While I am grateful to the makers of these apps, I feel like I shouldn’t really need them. The MSFS controls interface should be able to read the loaded airplane and automatically assign the controller functions based on the airplane’s profile. All three of the add-on programs do that. Why not MSFS?
 
DG's Hunter is VERY good, low impact and free :)

Absolutely, and thanks for the reminder - I was remiss in mentioning it. It was a gem in FSX, P3D, and now every bit as much so in MSFS. Another good freeware gem is the T-37 Tweet.


On my Christmas list for MS2024 (and MS2020 Dev Upgrades) would be a peripheral binding more like what DCS uses. By that I mean you select throttle 1 and assign it to your left throttle, throttle 2 goes to your right throttle. No more six different throttle settings and, or Lvar throttles.

Another thing I have noticed recently, and wish removed, are multiple controllers set to the same function conflicting. An example is the flaps switch. I have a flap switch on the Honeycomb Bravo for use when flying GA aircraft. I have a flap switch on my left next to the Wingwin throttle assembly for use when flying military jets. I used to be able to assign each one to flaps and they didn’t conflict. Not anymore. I have noticed on some complex aircraft that with the lefthand throttle flaps switch up, I have no control of the Bravo flap handle. It somehow overrides the Bravo switch. This used to not happen.

I currently use three different add-on apps to set bindings, outside of MSFS. I don’t like to use the MSFS control settings, unless I only use that function for every airplane. For instance, external lighting bindings seems to be “mostly” universal. I can assign the strobe light in MSFS and it will work for just about every airplane. However, I don’t want to have to go into the Options/Controls and change it for each and every airplane. So I use FSUIPC, Lobry’s Axis and Ohs, and more recently Spad.next.

FSUIPC is what I have been using forever. It is a good solid app. Axis and Ohs is a graphical app with an easy to use UI. It is also the easiest application to change one function’s controller binding to another controller. It along with FSUIPC have some powerful features under the hood, if you are willing to read the manuals and experiment.

Spad,next is easily the most powerful app. However, it is also the most complicated. It allows you to download profiles that will automatically populate your controller with functions to switches or axis. However, it is impossible to change the functions without delving into the xml/lua code. I find it too difficult for this old man and only use it to find lvars and check if a controller switch is working.

While I am grateful to the makers of these apps, I feel like I shouldn’t really need them. The MSFS controls interface should be able to read the loaded airplane and automatically assign the controller functions based on the airplane’s profile. All three of the add-on programs do that. Why not MSFS?

Fully agree that the continued need for a patchwork of apps to cover what the sim should already supports is not progress.
 
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I am generally a CTRL-E person as I like to get up flying as quickly as possible. However, I found the Sim Skunk Works F-104's to be very rewarding in P3D and again in MSFS. They are beautifully modelled and there are some superbly realistic repaints. The sound and feel of a running 104 whether it's on German Air Base or at Edwards is totally immersive even if you never actually take off. They can be easily started, following the quick guide provided. I just hand fly them using the MSFS map as necessary. Flying simple pattern work in a 104 is quite enough of a thrill for one evening.

One thing I did want to mention is about my set up. For years I flew FSX, P3D and MSFS at a desktop PC just with an office chair. I had my Warthog HOTAS on the desk next to me and a set of Saitek pedals jammed in place with a towel under the desk. I could flop down in an evening after work and be up and running in seconds.

Last year I invested in a Flight Seat. With the help of a friend I have fixed this to a base board on which I have screwed my rudder pedals. The Warthog throttle and joystick are fixed to plates either side of the seat and I have a Honeycomb yoke fixed to a centre plate. The issue is however that I use the PC for other stuff ( like browsing on .TO!) So I have to switch between the office chair and the Flight Seat contraption. It's been very noticeable that just the thought of moving this heavy "lump of furniture" around just for a quick flight in the "Widow-Maker" is enough of a disincentive to persuade me not to bother. So my actual flying time has reduced to almost zero in recent months.

Interesting therefore that, at least in my experience, this hobby has to be convenient as well as simple!!

Lastly, I like many, I have a hanger (or hard drive) full of aircraft. Many of these I have looked at but never flown or flown once and never looked at again. My add-on purchasing has slowed mainly because of the looming uncertainty around November 19th. I still devour repaints simply because they are free. In many ways the situation is analogous with my 1/72 plastic kit affliction. I still buy those from Ebay in the hope that this retirement of mine will at some stage yield up enough free-time to convert some of this loft insulation into completed models.....
 
John,

When I want to fly like I'm doing it for real, I fly something I know, something simple. The only WW II airplane I can fly from stand still to shut down is Got Friends Wildcat. That is just a charm of a flight model. Otherwise I stick to the NX Cubs, JB Logistics 152, a few ultralights, and on occasion a soaring plane, I keep it simple. Then why do I have all those WW II fighter and post-war jets and tube liners? Well, because I build plastic models and I love aircraft. When I do fly one I start in the air and just take screens. I love to repaint liveries too. But in all seriousness, I never fly anything complicated on a real start up and fly a point to point flight unless it is an airplane that is simple and I am familiar with. All the more reason I want the Champ! As to the tube liners, I have no choice with most. I surely have never paid for one.

Cazzie
 
I get your feeling, but if I'm not mistaken, nothing prevents you from flying the 747 exactly in the same way as you flew the one in FS9 or FSX, right ?
The programming of the FMS is not mandatory in the sim at least. The autopilot panel will still work with manually input numbers by rotating buttons, you just need to ensure you have selected the correct mode....
I mean, most of the times, my programming of the FMS is incomplete and/or incorrect anyways, and I always have to get back to "traditionnal" simple non-FMS autopilot mode because the plane won't follow the road anyways :D
Maybe I'll spend some time with it on a Saturday sometime soon. I used to love dialing in the frequencies for a Kai Tak checkerboard approach. One needle would be tuned to the NDB out from the end of the runway, so after flying the offset beam down to minimums, I'd wait for that pointer to be almost aligned with the runway heading and then smack the stick hard-right and hope the runway is lined up off your nose when you level out.
 
... I still buy those from Ebay in the hope that this retirement of mine will at some stage yield up enough free-time to convert some of this loft insulation into completed models.....
Yep! Don't any of you young guys think that retirement will give you all this FREE time. Nature abhors a vacuum.
 
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